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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #401

    Just build a new engine for water fuel

    So... in other words; all we need is a new engine design with high temperature or non-metallic materials such as ceramic pistons, valves and cylinders.
    Or maybe an entirely different approach to engine design that actually eliminates conventional valves altogether.



    http://pesn.com/2011/04/23/9501814_R...esign_its_own/

    }:>


    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    You can run an engine with just water and the plasma if the plasma is big enough but it would damage the engine. Revizal was the first to show the motorcycle type engine running like that for short bursts from what I can recall.

  2. #402

    Mechanical approach

    My mechanical approach will also be able to change timing on the fly as well as pulse width.

    By simply installing a magnet on the driven gear and a lever mounted reed switch that moves around the center axis; I will be able to change timing simply by moving the lever and pulse width (spark duration) by moving the reed closer or farther away from the magnet. It will be similar to the *Anton Cell setup but uses a reed switch connected to the MSD system "points" input versus the original Hall senor and control **circuit of the anton cell/elevator video.

    *See: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:G...p-side_500.jpg
    **See: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:A...cuit_b_bf8.gif

    The interesting thing I see in those original videos is that I don't think he was using a PWM.
    It appears that he is controlling his cell with a variac which means that his cell may have also been producing a lot of electrically charged water vapor-steam...

    Please tell us more about "pulsing a variac through a choke". Can you diagram this?

    Kindest regards;
    }:>


    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    The mechanical is invariably locked but with the method I have now, I have infinite variability, which is required for full testing. With plasma, the ignition can be retarded towards TDC a bit since the plasma is so fast and accelerates the combustion process. I still have my full stock magneto ignition so I can just put whatever cable I want on the plug to go between magneto, cdi or cdi with plasma. If I know exactly where I want the timing to be based on whatever configuration, then I'd probably opt for a fixed timing system.

    But, with being able to add on ethanol, which usually requires advanced timing to kick it off earlier, the plasma can ignite it in sub freezing temperatures no problem and because of the accelerated combustion, the timing would have to be around stock timing... a bit more advanced than gasoline with plasma. So there is a need for some variability. Some of the CDIs/MSDs like the one I used on my Subaru has a lot of settings to vary the timing with the dip switches but I don't think it has the adjustable ranged needed for all cases.
    Last edited by Scorch; 05-03-2015 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #403
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
    My mechanical approach will also be able to change timing on the fly as well as pulse width.

    By simply installing a magnet on the driven gear and a lever mounted reed switch that moves around the center axis; I will be able to change timing simply by moving the lever and pulse width (spark duration) by moving the reed closer or farther away from the magnet. It will be similar to the *Anton Cell setup but uses a reed switch connected to the MSD system "points" input versus the original Hall senor and control **circuit of the anton cell/elevator video.

    *See: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:G...p-side_500.jpg
    **See: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:A...cuit_b_bf8.gif

    The interesting thing I see in those original videos is that I don't think he was using a PWM.
    It appears that he is controlling his cell with a variac which means that his cell may have also been producing a lot of electrically charged water vapor-steam...

    Please tell us more about "pulsing a variac through a choke". Can you diagram this?

    Kindest regards;
    }:>
    A Bourke Engine is what I would use. (your other post)

    With these cdi's and msd's, there is no pulse width. As soon as the modules trigger hits ground, it just discharges the same whether the trigger is in contact for a long or short period of time.

    If you full rectify a variac's output so you have 120 cps DC, you ground the ground to the negative electrode and the positive line, you simply put a choke in series with the positive wire going to the positive cell - that's about it. You can put it on the ground as well. It will limit current so you can get higher voltage to the cell with less current, but that choke will heat up depending on how much current it's restricting. If you look at Meyer's VIC, he has those chokes on the neg and positive, I just used one on the positive.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #404
    Scorch, good start would be a two stroke. Then a Tesla turbine.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Can you post a diagram?
    Sorry Aaron, I didn't see your request. I used Microsoft Paint and drew the picture of how my cap booster box I connected onto my wife's Fiat Uno 1.4 engine.



    The blue box is my cap booster [black in real life], and its cap charge circuit is represented by an AC symbol of sorts in this drawing.

    In my actual box is an MMC capacitor, but I don't know its peak rating - after everything soldered together. the box's output measured 910Vdc, so a few transformer secondary loops were took off to reduce output to just over 400Vdc so oscillator mosfets run cooler [they have their own heat sink external to the plastic box not shown here].

    The diode symbol in the box drawing represents its 30kV 6A diode string.

    We used dark grey 11kV insulated Neon Sign Wire for both the cap (+) output wire connected to a 4 terminal block, and as well as for the individual wires connected in parallel with HV ignition wires onto the spark plugs.

    The individual diodes connected parallel onto the spark plug wire connectors are 20kV 0.5A MWO diodes - so total protection in series for the cap (+) output and thus cap charger circuit [excluding the FWRB] is 50kV 6.5A.

    Now my confession:
    Cap (-) & charger (-) I in my opinion WRONGLY made common, grounding both onto battery (-)...

    In retrospect it appears to me that spark plug bases only get whats left of the "hot current" after the parallel split on the battery (-) pole, between the battery and the long-resistance path via battery ground cable, over metal gearbox casing and engine metal, to screwed-in spark plug basis.

    It maybe helps to get the booster's cap "charged" at not less than battery (-) volts... and it might add a longer-duration LV (+) on spark plug center electrodes [therefore maybe the funny red-blue dark purple little plasma ot helsp to achieve..

    BUT.. it is a ridiculous connection of the booster's LV (-) output, since its charge circuit can keep the cap charged-up up to even whats required by Mika's rotary rev-limit range.

    Proposed Solution:

    Separate cap (-) output from Charge Circuit (-) input, and GROUND cap (-) output onto engine [even an old kettering's condensor is grounded on the engine!]

    Request for Your Advice:

    IF cap (-) were connected onto an engine nut closest to the amp box for shortest discharge path, will each spark plug get the same cap LV, or will it reduce as the spark plug is situated further from that LV connecting nut?

    Or would a parallel terminal block setup [like i did with the cap (+) output] better accomplish equal power output among the spark plugs, each having a wire connected on the closest nut to it?

    [I know for sure that connecting the LV directly on the spark plug base would be path of LEAST RESISTANCE but not all engine heads leave enough space for more cabling between engine head and spark plug for cables to reach the base and not get heated up by engine head pressing against it]

    Normal electric logic says that in a parallel circuit Amps are divided according to the Resistance of each component, but that the Volts on all those components will be exactly the same as that of the Voltage Source.

    But HOW does that apply to plasma ignition - is there diversion from this law or is it one that we can still apply here?

    [don't worry, I'm not barking up the "don't dare change the laws" tree ]

    I think it very much have relevance to connecting wasted spark HV output in parallel onto the spark plugs as discussed in previous posts on this thread, since spark gap in compressed piston gasses, and spark gap in exhaust gasses, experience unlike gap resistances...

    So if the above mention parallel "law" does apply to plasma ignition, especially adding cap booster, on wasted spark ignition in HV PARALLEL mode, the WRONG gap will get "hot current"... most going to spark gap in the Exhaust Stroke that does NOT NEED it, and the least amount going to the spark gap in the Compression Stroke were it actually IS NEEDED...

    That will be such MORE WAST of battery and alternator and fuel for already WASTED SPARK ignition, working against the solution of connecting spark plug pares in parallel onto the coil pack HV (+) poles that you suggested in previous posts in this thread for wasted spark ignition.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Willem Coetzee; 05-08-2015 at 06:45 AM.

  6. #406

    Drawings, Diodes and Capacitor questions

    Hello all.

    I haven't done much with the engine this past week but I did manage to diagram a couple different versions of the bench-top demonstration unit. (see attached)

    I have always had some issues with this particular setup either misfiring or relay contacts sticking even with just an 80mfd capacitor which is why I am running a 47mfd capacitor at the moment so it doesn't always provide quite enough discharge so system 'misfires' sometimes. It's a catch 22 situation because smaller capacitor not quite enough so it misfires sometimes and larger capacitor tends to make relay contacts stick so it misfires anyway.

    The original build of this unit has a pretty light duty relay with contact ratings at only 10 amps 30vdc so I intend to beef up this relay with one rated at 30 amps.
    And I intend to just use cheap off-the-shelf auto parts as much as possible for best availability and easy to replicate by replacing the 555 velman timer kit with a turn signal flasher and a SPDT relay.
    I can actually get five of these relays, with pigtail harnesses for only $13.95 delivered:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HFYE1O/

    Then a three pin flasher is only $8.99 delivered.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008C9YJ6C/

    These are really common auto parts that can be found at most auto parts stores and even a few department stores and truck stops.

    Then I was thinking about the high voltage rectifier. I have a few of the 30KV 2 amp "ham radio" diodes but I have been working on microwave ovens for over 30 years and I remembered there actually is a heavier duty version of these appliance diodes that everybody has been using. This version of a microwave oven HV diode is rated at 16Kv and 2 amps and is only $8.41 delivered-
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HGALV4Q/

    Questions for Aaron-

    What is the type, capacitance and voltage rating of the capacitors you had used for your booster cap bank HV transformer?
    I appear to be experiencing difficulty finding any reference to these component specifics in your videos and documents and specific part numbers would be nice.

    For example; if I wanted to merely replicate your original lawn mower experiment without spending a lot of money on a CDI system, what are the specific values and part numbers for the components including the SCR, Diodes, Capacitors and Resistor bank and can you diagram it?

    Also wondering-
    Is there a specific reason for using polarity specific electrolytic capacitors?

    I have microwave capacitors on the shelf and even though rated for "AC"; these capacitors will hold a static DC charge although, at around 1uf or less; capacitance is pretty low on those.
    I do have what appears to be a motor capacitor rated at 4uf (440vac) and this produces a pretty good result in the same test bed so I have to wonder; why not try these types of non polarized, 'large can' capacitors?
    Such as this-
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E6OPHFY/

    Is it possible these may actually charge faster and be less of a load on the AC source for this test bed?
    They are rated for AC but they will accept and hold a static DC charge and are certainly built for durability and I do wonder if they may actually charge and discharge a little faster compared to an electrolytic of similar values?

    Just some thoughts anyway.

    Kindest regards;

    }:>
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Scorch; 05-09-2015 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Fixing Image Sizes

  7. #407
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorch View Post
    Questions for Aaron-

    What is the type, capacitance and voltage rating of the capacitors you had used for your booster cap bank HV transformer?
    I appear to be experiencing difficulty finding any reference to these component specifics in your videos and documents and specific part numbers would be nice.

    For example; if I wanted to merely replicate your original lawn mower experiment without spending a lot of money on a CDI system, what are the specific values and part numbers for the components including the SCR, Diodes, Capacitors and Resistor bank and can you diagram it?

    Also wondering-
    Is there a specific reason for using polarity specific electrolytic capacitors?

    I have microwave capacitors on the shelf and even though rated for "AC"; these capacitors will hold a static DC charge although, at around 1uf or less; capacitance is pretty low on those.
    I do have what appears to be a motor capacitor rated at 4uf (440vac) and this produces a pretty good result in the same test bed so I have to wonder; why not try these types of non polarized, 'large can' capacitors?
    Such as this-
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E6OPHFY/

    Is it possible these may actually charge faster and be less of a load on the AC source for this test bed?
    They are rated for AC but they will accept and hold a static DC charge and are certainly built for durability and I do wonder if they may actually charge and discharge a little faster compared to an electrolytic of similar values?

    Just some thoughts anyway.

    Kindest regards;

    }:>
    I had a series of capacitors that were 330uf and a couple hundred volts each. The rectified MOT output charged that string of caps up to 1100 or so volts max at whatever capacitance divided by how many caps. That was the cap bank I used the most with the booster cap big blast experiments.

    For the lawnmower, I honestly wouldn't go that exact route. It worked great, but limiting current was a problem and we kept burning up some power resistors. The AC was 1/2 rectified to the cap, which was I believe 47uf and a few hundred volts. It would then be charged to maybe 160 volts peak from the rectified AC, which is typical. The SCR I'd have to look up but it was a 600v scr I believe. Diodes were 6A100 (6 amp 1000v). The resistors were 100 ohm ceramic wire wound power resistors from radio shack. Better to use a bigger ohmite power resistor. The gate of the SCR was triggered by a reed relay where we only used the reed connections... one to ground I think and the other lead to the gate. It was on an adjustable plate so we could adjust timing. The magneto magnet on the flywheel would come by and trigger that reed and that is what dumped the cap to the primary of the ignition coil.

    That test was just to prove the point that we could turn the gas main jet all the way in and fully throttle it at max speed with only fuel coming from the idle jet. That was like 7 years ago or something so I don't recall all the details. I do have it written up somewhere.

    Electrolytic caps is what we used for everything - like photo flash.

    For my motor test, I used 4000v 2uf caps - a single one charged up to 1100 volts or so at max. That was a very old oil filed one I believe. That is in the videos I posted of the plasma discharge motor.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #408
    This plasma booster amplifier wiring setup is for single / sequential ignition firing ignition, like I had on the 1.4 Fiat Uno, an engine with a distributor, and not for Coil-on-Plug or Wasted Spark ignition.

    But if the spark plug lead pares are to be hooked up parallel onto the HV PLUS pole of each Wasted Spark Coil Pack, the capacitor (-) output from the booster would need to be some how hooked-up in a way that gives way more efficiency, than the WRONG way I did it in as I posted 3 posts earlier.

    Is the best solution to connect the booster cap (-) to each spark plug base...?

    OR

    Is it OK to connect the booster cap (-) to the engine head nuts nearest the spark plugs...?

    OR

    Doesn't it matter if the booster cap (-) wire is just kept short and just connected to an engine head nut closest to the booster unit..., and if so would each spark plug base still get the same amount of "hot current"...?

    Point is, although the initial HV event might produce the same HV volts on every spark plug, if each spark plug is not getting the SAME booster (-) output on the spark plug base, the PLASMA effect and the LORENTZ effect might be less on the spark plugs that get less "hot current".

    Or would it??? Thus the 3 questions...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #409
    Aaron, here's a working model of the plasmajet sparkplug. Works great, have more dies and molds to make,and testing. Imagine the Firestorm inside the tip of the plug,exiting 2.5 mill hole Sounds great. avaiablehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nddS7YFdBQ

  10. #410

    Scorch's Timing System Udate Video

    Hello all.

    I just produced another quick update video for the progress of my custom timing system being installed on a cheapo generator for the purposes of eliminating the waste spark and providing for easy timing adjustments to the CDI system.

    I originally planned to just use a hall sensor or reed switch but then decided to become a lot more picky about precise timing so I merely modified an off-the-shelf timing "reluctor" cam (LX104 $6) and magnetic pickup (LX102T $13) as found in many automotive applications and readily available at any auto part supply and easily connected any Capacitive Discharge Ignition system.



    That is for now. Hope to actually be able to demonstrate an active ignition system soon.

    Kindest regards;

    }:>

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