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Thread: Plasma Ignition | Plasma Jet Ignition

  1. #181
    Yes Aaron, single discharge will happen if you use a high enough trigger frequency. As far as I know it it not an option to be set. I use a reed switch and a monopole to trigger the MSD unit. Once you get it running fast, discharge will drop to a single one.

    Are there any plugs with tungsten electrodes out there? Would like to hear some suggestions to try.

    Good luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    The plugs have always been an issue - needs to be tungsten on both electrodes.

    Some plugs last longer than others but can last a lot longer than 2 hours. One partner tested some that lasted a several thousand miles.

    You say "single discharge" - can you set your MSD to single discharge instead of multi? I need that option for something else and am having a hard time finding a regular CDI with single discharge.

  2. #182
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floris View Post
    Yes Aaron, single discharge will happen if you use a high enough trigger frequency. As far as I know it it not an option to be set. I use a reed switch and a monopole to trigger the MSD unit. Once you get it running fast, discharge will drop to a single one.

    Are there any plugs with tungsten electrodes out there? Would like to hear some suggestions to try.

    Good luck.
    Thanks - ok, that is the same with all the MSD's just because the charger can't keep up at those speeds.

    No off the shelf ones that I know of but a few people do put some custom tungsten plugs on ebay once in a while. Way overpriced, but they are sometimes avail.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #183
    On MSD switching to single discharge

    MSD has been around for a long time, and their trademark and name come from an ingenious and straightforward technology, Multiple Spark Discharge.

    MSD's technology does 3 very important things different than your stock ignition:

    First, it will fire up to 12 individual sparks over a 20 degree crankshaft rotation below 3000RPM. This is much more and much longer duration than any stock system i'm aware of. What it does is burn more of the fuel injected into the cylinder. This in turn creates more horsepower, better gas mileage and reduced emissions.

    Second, above 3000rpm it's hard to discharge more than one spark per rev, so instead, it keeps one long, hot spark burning for that same 20 degrees.

    Third, with a "diamond" coilpack from a newer Subaru, the extra spark power the ignition serves can be enhanced by the better coil. The DIS increases the spark energy much more than the stock system so that the spark is much hotter and can burn the air-fuel mixture much more completely. Note: A 2.5RS coilpack is NOT necessary, any pack with the "Diamond" logo on it will work better than the earier ones. Any 95+ 2.2 or 2.5 should have these.

    http://user.xmission.com/~dac/library/DIS.htm
    MSD makes a multiple spark capacitor discharge ignition system widely used by Mazda rotary engine racers but it only works up to 3000 RPM. After that it is "one strong spark" says MSD. Not enough IMHO."

    there is another company called AEM that make MSD systems. I called them it too does not fire more than once past 3000 RPM according to the electronic tech guy. He kept saying there was not enough time

    http://www.rotaryeng.net/Why-CDI.html
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  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Floris View Post

    Are there any plugs with tungsten electrodes out there?
    To answer my own question, actually NGK has tungsten electrode sparkplugs! The surface gap type like the BUHW are the ones I found but there are more, might be just what I need

  5. #185
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floris View Post
    To answer my own question, actually NGK has tungsten electrode sparkplugs! The surface gap type like the BUHW are the ones I found but there are more, might be just what I need
    What is the plug part number?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  6. #186
    NGK 2622 BUHW Tungsten Spark Plug

    http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9590
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  7. #187
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Would just have to test them. If they're non resistor - then looks like a good deal!

    But it also depends on the polarity of the HV ignition coil.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #188
    The BUHW plugs don't have a resistor but do have a short reach.
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  9. #189
    I'm late to the party. It seems like things have calmed down.

    I wanted to add a comment about this effect which has not been mentioned. That is, it has a very sharp threshold with respect to the voltage on the capacitor. Very much all or nothing. In my setup, using a standard 10K ohm spark coil, 40uF cap, and 15 1N4007 diodes in series, I need to be above 130V on the cap to get a plasma discharge. Below that it is just a simple spark. Above that, it is like an avalanche conduction.

    Quite interesting, negative resistance. I would like to know what changes so dramatically to initiate the effect, with such a small increment of voltage. Since there is already a simple spark well below that 130V threshold, it is not about the air being ionized.

    Here are a couple of scope shots of the voltage across the capacitor, that show first the subplasma threshold, and second the plasma effect. The first shows that there is still some flux left after the spark has ceased, which oscillates a bit until the energy dissipates. The second shows a steeper fall time, and very little flux left over at the end of the spark.

    subplasma.jpg
    plasma.jpg

  10. #190
    Hi there! New to this forum, and having some trouble getting the plasma effect. Have an MSD Street fire CDI, the same one Aaron used, and coil of the same brand. Hooked up to a 12V battery with no switch or anything- I'm just touching the wires to trigger the spark.

    Got lots of pretty purple sparks but as soon as I hook up the diode I stop getting sparks and I hear a soft kind of buzz/click coming from somewhere. Not sure if its coming from in the CDI or from somewhere else.

    The diode is a microwave oven diode, silicon rated up to 15kV, 50A surge. Even tried hooking 5 of those diodes up in series and the same thing happens. Also tried reversing the diodes and hooking them from negative to negative in case the coil was making a negative spark, but didn't work either.

    Plug is non-resistor, solid copper core.

    Anyone have any idea what might be happening? Any advice would be much appreciated.
    Last edited by 1w9m8b9; 08-25-2014 at 01:03 AM.

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