Off the grid with Bedini Tech

[John_Bedini]

John K,
The Tesla 5 can be made to pulse in the liner mode but requires a little different board I might have room to add the PWM and opto control for the Amplifier. You will lose a little power doing that but not much. Chuck and I are testing that right now. The nice thing about this unit it can be made to do 2 volt cells if ordered that way. This is a very high power unit at 2 volts. I think it is possible to put what ever voltage you want in the input up to 43 volts, we are testing that right now. Will try to get a break and post a video so you can see it run under load.
John B

Hi John, the new Tesla Solar Tracker 5 sounds great. How does it go with batteries that may be sulfated from using another type of charger that doesn't push the batteries up into the de-sulfation range? Is it able to rejuvenate these batteries and extend their capacity and life?

Also, how does the TST5 perform in low light when the panels aren't putting out the maximum voltage? Does it still work as well with other than Harbor Freight panels? I have 8 24v panels on my roof that are tied to a grid-connect inverter and would love to be able to use a TST5 to charge batteries with them instead of getting a measly 8c/kWh from the power company.

Looking forward to a video of a TST5 in action

John K.

[Tom C]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2543[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2544[/ATTACH]This topic is of great interest to me
I'm building an off grid cabin; the reason being property is 700m away from power line.
Here is my current setup:
Bergey 1KW wind turbine
700W solar panels
Magnum pure sinewave inverter 7200W @240volts
880 ah 24volt battery bank ..8 x 6volt batteries in series /parallel config.
Kubota diesel GL6500 gen / autostart.

over the past two years I've built two bike wheel ssg's from scratch while in the yahoo group.
last year I started making a cad file for the complete 10 coil monopole and it's complete.
I'm getting close to when I'll have time to start the 10 coil build... so since the forum is fired up again .. if you all care to hear about my experiences with the process
I will gladly share here if anyone is interested . I'm obviously trying to build an energizer that can help me supplement my off grid setup .
my battery bank has less than 10 charge/discharge cycles and now its been over 3 years ..I've done equalizer charges twice per year ...by generator inverter charging.
The batteries are basically at 12.9v across... charging sees batteries go up to 13.5 then settles to 12.9v.
I dont spend much time posting... but my hope is that the 10 coil build will pay off and help supplement my power supply when i have no wind no sun no diesel !
Heaven forbid!
Thank you
Tom Cerullo

you are not charging your batteries fully, they should be charging to at least 14.5, you should do a capacity check and see where they are at.

Tom C

[gramps]

Dear John, thank you you very much for your insights. Great informations, I have to digest now.

I am an absolute new comer to the TST 3. I use it now for about three weeks. My setup is 12 V panels with 500 W Peak. TST III, 30A and 4 Trojans 150plus. I wonder, if I have understood about the running modes of the TST III.

So I hook up my inverter (300w/600W, 220 V AC) parallel to the batterybank at the output of the TST III and leave it there all the time. And I can put a load on the inverter, whenever I need it. ( Of course in the ranges of the setup). And the TST III takes care of loading the inverter or the batteries? Is there anything I missed or am I on the right track? How much current can I take out when the solar tracker is in desulfation mode?

Thank you all for any help with this!

[John_Bedini]

Gramps,
The Tesla III Tracker should be hooked directly to the battery bank, the inverter should be right on the battery
connecting points. You would want a direct connection to the inverter. The lights on the tracker should go from green to red if the batteries are charged under load.
John

Dear John, thank you you very much for your insights. Great informations, I have to digest now.

I am an absolute new comer to the TST 3. I use it now for about three weeks. My setup is 12 V panels with 500 W Peak. TST III, 30A and 4 Trojans 150plus. I wonder, if I have understood about the running modes of the TST III.

So I hook up my inverter (300w/600W, 220 V AC) parallel to the batterybank at the output of the TST III and leave it there all the time. And I can put a load on the inverter, whenever I need it. ( Of course in the ranges of the setup). And the TST III takes care of loading the inverter or the batteries? Is there anything I missed or am I on the right track? How much current can I take out when the solar tracker is in desulfation mode?

Thank you all for any help with this!

[Allen R.]

Hi , John , all. First i want to say im so relieved the forum is back up. Standard connections then. Panels to Tracker then Tracker to battery bank. Inverter connected directly to bank as close as possible with large cables. The output from the Tracker is safe for the inverter was my main concern. Glad to know it. Now i got to have one. Is the currently available Tracker the ones your talking about or is this an upcoming upgrade ?

Thanks for the update on the Trackers.

P.S. my 2a12 has saved another car battery. I appreciate it. Both my bike wheels i built have brought many batteries back. I have saved a bunch of money in my business (used car wholesaler)


Bought beginner and intermediate books and enjoyed them both. Still learning and loving it.

Thanks ,
al

[irgreen]

@ All,
Please let me explain. The Tesla Solar Tracker 5 has been re-designed and is not the same thing as the early trackers. The new tracker is a real robust unit and is capable of up to 350 amps at 12 volts at 24 volts it can be built up to 150 amps. These units use a Wakefield type design forced air cooling. It is a linear regulator power amplifier design. The reason I have changed the Tesla charger is to stop the failure in the power fets as everyone is different coming from the factories over seas. To use the Tracker 5 your panels must push at the maximum voltage. The low light panels I run at home and my system in it's experimental form supplies about 3.5 amps all night long lighting up the yard with Led lights, you can read outside with what I have. My 24v panels at open circuit can do 43.3 volts which is what the Tracker 5 wants. The low light panels at 12v can push 22.5 volts. The Trackers can be made with automatic lighting to turn on lights up to 20 amps, but we can make them do 40 amps. My system is designed to do just that. The tracker 5 is safe with inverters as it will not cause any glitches as other charger do. I have spent a very long time design this unit and plan on posting video of this unit working and driving loads. We should talk about all of these things here on solar. The problem is that this unit is very costly to build and I never want to see it back because of failure, if your batteries are good it will maintain them. The batteries should be pushed to about 15.3 volt if you ever expect to have any power off grid, you need everything you can put into the batteries during the sunlight hours. I will talk about Harbor Fright Panels next and what can be done with them.
John

John,

Question concerning the TST5 from someone not "skilled in the arts". Considering that "The batteries should be pushed to about 15.3 volt" and considering that this is under load while charging, does this mean I can have a smaller battery bank? I ask this because I want to outfit an RV with as many PV panels as I can install on the roof but I am limited in the size of my battery bank. I have a TST3 that will cover my needs for lighting and computer/TV. The TST5 could be used to run heavy loads AC and/or washer/dryer, etc. I look forward to these going in to production. I will buy one for sure.

Thank you for what you are doing. I hope we get to have another conference next summer.

Robert G (texas)

[John_Bedini]

Solar Chargers

Irgreen,
The Tesla 5 is a linear regulated amplifier it is made to push as much as you can get into the batteries, it does not make any difference on the size of your batteries as long as they are not starting batteries. I have used with great success the harbor fright panels to do just what your talking about. I said I would talk a little about these panels. "Amorphous Silicon Panels" broken into 15 watt panels. The problem with them is the very first panels did not have a blocking diode built in to them. People would get rid of the solar charger that came with the package and not check for back current flow and what this does is degrade the panel over night, the complaint was my panels do not put out the current any more, they were correct. The charger had the blocking diode in the charger box. The other problem was the charger cut off at 13.5 volts this left the batteries to sulphate, not good. The reason I use them is they are very good in low light condition. The group should study the way solar lights work as that would be an example of how off grid would work. In the beginning we here at Tesla Solar Charger did allot of work on developing pulse chargers and solar chargers. The main problem is the batteries must be kept in full charge condition and can not be sulphated if you expect to get any power out of them. The Tesla 5 is a Liner regulated Amplifier it is capable of running loads under charging conditions. This is not a Chinese charger and uses real Thermalloy Wakefield Heat Sinks with forced air cooling to keep the transistors at 70c, yes the fan is 4.5 inches. This is one of the best chargers built up to 350 amps at 12 volts if you can push it with the panels. At 24 Volts it can be built to do 150 amps. The devices are power amplifier devices running at DC and no pulse. The best thing about this charger is it will not interfere with inverters while charging it adjust to the load. It can be made in modules so any power is possible. This is not a cheap charger to make and must be hand built.
It still works out to be less then a dollar a watt. You can also use a power supply with it if need be, we are testing a 3 Kw generator with it to see what it can do. The circuit is very dependable and will push the batteries where they need to be. The nice thing is running 24 volts I can imbalance the batteries running 50 amp loads off 12 volts and it will push the batteries to make up for the load. I will make a video of this as soon as I can so you can see this work, I'm just swamped with 80 amp chargers right now, they are all going over seas to Russia. In normal conditions for RV's you do not need anything bigger then 40 amps, but you need to put the charge into the batteries for night use. The idea is to start with good batteries and not let them run down. Keep them charged and you will never have any problems.
John B

John,

Question concerning the TST5 from someone not "skilled in the arts". Considering that "The batteries should be pushed to about 15.3 volt" and considering that this is under load while charging, does this mean I can have a smaller battery bank? I ask this because I want to outfit an RV with as many PV panels as I can install on the roof but I am limited in the size of my battery bank. I have a TST3 that will cover my needs for lighting and computer/TV. The TST5 could be used to run heavy loads AC and/or washer/dryer, etc. I look forward to these going in to production. I will buy one for sure.

Thank you for what you are doing. I hope we get to have another conference next summer.

Robert G (texas)

[Tom Cerullo]

you are not charging your batteries fully, they should be charging to at least 14.5, you should do a capacity check and see where they are at.

Tom C

Thank you Tom C. for your reply.
I was thinking the same ( undercharged) .. they havent been used much since purchase.. My mistake of buying too early.
I would really appreciate it if you could help me understand how to perform a capacity check on my batteries given their current state
and go from there. Your expertise with large batteries would help alot .

Sincere Thanks
Tom Cerullo

[Tom C]

Thank you Tom C. for your reply.
I was thinking the same ( undercharged) .. they havent been used much since purchase.. My mistake of buying too early.
I would really appreciate it if you could help me understand how to perform a capacity check on my batteries given their current state
and go from there. Your expertise with large batteries would help alot .

Sincere Thanks
Tom Cerullo

you have to discharge them at C20 and see when the voltage reaches whatever the manufacturer tells you is its discharged voltage, take it to 80 percent of full discharge.

Tom C

[John_Bedini]

@ All,
I thought a little about some of the batteries used now. For example the new AGM batteries should not be taken over 14.8 volts as they will dry out. The serious off grid person would never use this type of battery unless he had no choice. Off grid should use wet cell batteries as you can maintain them and pushing them to 16 volts is not really a problem, you must get everything you can get into the battery during the day light hours.I have found a happy medium with Solar Lead acid and that is around 15.35 volts. Do not use a starting battery in a Solar Home as they are not a deep cycle battery, If you can not afford a real deep cycle battery RV batteries work but only rated for the amp hrs for that battery and a tip of advise do not take them below 11 volts. If you must use a starting battery they are dead at 12 volts and if you follow this tip you will not damage the battery. Starting batteries are in cold cranking amps and deep cycle batteries are in amp hrs. Gel Cell Batteries are deep cycle batteries because they are rated in amp hrs.
John B

[John H]

I too am looking forward to seeing the new Tracker 5 in action!

John K,
The Tesla 5 can be made to pulse in the liner mode but requires a little different board I might have room to add the PWM and opto control for the Amplifier. You will lose a little power doing that but not much. Chuck and I are testing that right now. The nice thing about this unit it can be made to do 2 volt cells if ordered that way. This is a very high power unit at 2 volts. I think it is possible to put what ever voltage you want in the input up to 43 volts, we are testing that right now. Will try to get a break and post a video so you can see it run under load.
John B

[gramps]

This is good stuff, I love it!

I reflect a lot on the modular concept of the TST 5 at the moment. I wonder, how smart the new charger is.

Can I so to say manage my energy needs with it?. I think about the input side: if I have fog the whole day (or the whole week) and I need the washing machine, can the TSt 5 recognize that and switch on the generator on the input side additonal to the panels? Or vice versa. Can the TST 5 recognize that I consume too much power for low light conditions and only allow the use of the most important group of power consumers, like lightning and Computer or a small refrigerator. If the light conditions gets better it additonal allows the big fridge and the washing machine to run? Is this possible?

I really like your work and what you have realized with this new concept!

Irgreen,
The Tesla 5 is a linear regulated amplifier it is made to push as much as you can get into the batteries, it does not make any difference on the size of your batteries as long as they are not starting batteries. I have used with great success the harbor fright panels to do just what your talking about. I said I would talk a little about these panels. "Amorphous Silicon Panels" broken into 15 watt panels. The problem with them is the very first panels did not have a blocking diode built in to them. People would get rid of the solar charger that came with the package and not check for back current flow and what this does is degrade the panel over night, the complaint was my panels do not put out the current any more, they were correct. The charger had the blocking diode in the charger box. The other problem was the charger cut off at 13.5 volts this left the batteries to sulphate, not good. The reason I use them is they are very good in low light condition. The group should study the way solar lights work as that would be an example of how off grid would work. In the beginning we here at Tesla Solar Charger did allot of work on developing pulse chargers and solar chargers. The main problem is the batteries must be kept in full charge condition and can not be sulphated if you expect to get any power out of them. The Tesla 5 is a Liner regulated Amplifier it is capable of running loads under charging conditions. This is not a Chinese charger and uses real Thermalloy Wakefield Heat Sinks with forced air cooling to keep the transistors at 70c, yes the fan is 4.5 inches. This is one of the best chargers built up to 350 amps at 12 volts if you can push it with the panels. At 24 Volts it can be built to do 150 amps. The devices are power amplifier devices running at DC and no pulse. The best thing about this charger is it will not interfere with inverters while charging it adjust to the load. It can be made in modules so any power is possible. This is not a cheap charger to make and must be hand built.
It still works out to be less then a dollar a watt. You can also use a power supply with it if need be, we are testing a 3 Kw generator with it to see what it can do. The circuit is very dependable and will push the batteries where they need to be. The nice thing is running 24 volts I can imbalance the batteries running 50 amp loads off 12 volts and it will push the batteries to make up for the load. I will make a video of this as soon as I can so you can see this work, I'm just swamped with 80 amp chargers right now, they are all going over seas to Russia. In normal conditions for RV's you do not need anything bigger then 40 amps, but you need to put the charge into the batteries for night use. The idea is to start with good batteries and not let them run down. Keep them charged and you will never have any problems.
John B

[Tom C]

Gramps.

the TST 5 is a solar charger , it is not a microprocessor that can do energy management.... of course it is possible, but can you see the underlying infrastructure required to do what you are contemplating? I run a large wireless energy management system at my day Job.... it controls lights heating a/c pumps a bunch of motors and 140 video games. it has full zone switching and pwm control of pumps using a.c. frequency drives. it monitors interior building co2 and pressures and adjusts fan speed and it also monitors ph and chlorine levels in the pools, and can tell me if a pump has turned on but has no flow. the base sytems was 90,000 dollars plus installation.

I have a lot of experience with this and unless you want to run extension cords to your appliances and lighting, it would require a relay box and isolation of outlets and breakers in your house. then a ton of analog controls to sense, monitor and maintain your power. if you would like to see a system developed for off grid use, let me know and we can chat about funding.

Tom

[gramps]

Tom,


good to know that power management is possible. This is a very impressive system, you run. And a very impressive scope of skills you have.

Gramps.

the TST 5 is a solar charger , it is not a microprocessor that can do energy management.... of course it is possible, but can you see the underlying infrastructure required to do what you are contemplating? I run a large wireless energy management system at my day Job.... it controls lights heating a/c pumps a bunch of motors and 140 video games. it has full zone switching and pwm control of pumps using a.c. frequency drives. it monitors interior building co2 and pressures and adjusts fan speed and it also monitors ph and chlorine levels in the pools, and can tell me if a pump has turned on but has no flow. the base sytems was 90,000 dollars plus installation.

I have a lot of experience with this and unless you want to run extension cords to your appliances and lighting, it would require a relay box and isolation of outlets and breakers in your house. then a ton of analog controls to sense, monitor and maintain your power. if you would like to see a system developed for off grid use, let me know and we can chat about funding.

Tom

[Tom C]

thanks gramps... the system runs off of the xbee system of wireless controllers from digi.......... the software is proprietary and scalable to needs. unfortunately even a base package is very expensive. but take a look at it and if you can program you can whip something together. just have to think about parasitic loads and having to run a computer to control everything. s little book pc running on a micro atx board would do fine as it is all run thru wifi nodes and meshed repeaters. Tom C