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Thread: Two Stage Mechanical Oscillator Replication

  1. #11
    wow, someone really butchered one of my Schematics. i'm not even sure what it's susposta do.....

    edit:

    after studying this. i see that they are trying to get the charging battery to drive the the 2nd transistor from a 2nd trigger coil.....

    but this hookup will not work the way it is drawn.....
    Last edited by RS_; 04-30-2019 at 10:07 AM.

  2. #12
    Hi RS,

    Quote Originally Posted by RS_ View Post
    wow, someone really butchered one of my Schematics. i'm not even sure what it's susposta do.....
    I remembered when this was posted four or five years ago. I had to do a search to find it. I didn't realize he (bigmotherwhale) had used and butchered one of your schematics. It is supposed to flip the coil core from attraction to repulsion as the magnet passes giving it a double "kick". It uses separate windings on the coil to do this.

    A better way (as suggested by Aaron) might be to use the "Bedini - Cole" bipolar switch, if I could figure out how to trigger it from either direction.
    Gary Hammond,

  3. #13
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that in attraction mode, it is the "scalar" field between the magnets that triggers the transistor and not the field off the face of the magnet itself. If you have one magnet on the pendulum, you will have that opposite field coming out next to that magnet but not sure it will be focused or strong enough at the core to trigger the transistor.

    Do you know what I mean?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #14
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    With the ZFM circuit, there is probably a way to use some kind of flip-flop, 0,1 counter circuit - 0 fires one polarity and 1 fires the other. That 01010101 repeats so it will fire correctly no matter which way the pendulum is swinging in relation to the coil. I don't know enough about those circuits to show you a design, I just know that it can be done like that.

    It has been done on gas generators to fire once when needed but not when it is not so therefore, it won't prematurely ignite hho that is injected from the air intake. That is a circuit method of firing every other time to eliminate wasted spark firing.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  5. #15
    Hi Aaron,

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    With the ZFM circuit, there is probably a way to use some kind of flip-flop, 0,1 counter circuit - 0 fires one polarity and 1 fires the other. That 01010101 repeats so it will fire correctly no matter which way the pendulum is swinging in relation to the coil. I don't know enough about those circuits to show you a design, I just know that it can be done like that.

    It has been done on gas generators to fire once when needed but not when it is not so therefore, it won't prematurely ignite hho that is injected from the air intake. That is a circuit method of firing every other time to eliminate wasted spark firing.
    I thought about using a flip-flop 0-1 counter circuit like you suggested. And I've also thought about using two H11D1's on the bipolar circuit with the diodes hooked up opposite polarity to a single trigger coil. The attraction mode one would energize first and when the trigger reverses at top dead center, the repulsion one would energize on the back swing. Haven't tried this yet, but seems like it might work.
    Gary Hammond,

  6. #16
    That will be very interesting if the 2 back to back H11D1's will switch correctly with the incoming magnet, and the out going magnet phase....

    if it does work, than you can feed the spike back to the front end Cap to increase the power to the circuit, or to a cap pulser to charge other batterys..... as showen in one of the BJ/Cole Schematics

  7. #17
    Hi RS,

    Quote Originally Posted by RS_ View Post
    That will be very interesting if the 2 back to back H11D1's will switch correctly with the incoming magnet, and the out going magnet phase....

    if it does work, than you can feed the spike back to the front end Cap to increase the power to the circuit, or to a cap pulser to charge other batterys..... as showen in one of the BJ/Cole Schematics
    With the regular SSG circuit we're using now, when an automotive timing light pickup is on the run battery lead, it flashes and shows the magnet maybe 1/8" before the leading edge of the core. So this would indicate where the attraction H11D1 would turn on.

    And when the timing light pickup is hooked up to the charge battery lead, it flashes about 1/8" before the magnet reaches top dead center of the core when the trigger winding switches polarity. This should theoretically be the point where the attraction H11D1 turns off and the repulsion H11D1 turns on.

    I haven't had a chance to build the Bedini/Cole circuit yet to see if it will actually do this or not? I'm hoping there is enough switching delay to prevent both devices from being on at the same time. And we will also harvest the spikes with the option of feedback to the front end or a separate battery.
    Gary Hammond,

  8. #18
    "doesn't trigger as well as the first circuit"

    One issue I suspect you might run into with this set-up is that as the pendulum increases the magnitude of its swing, the bicycle frame lever will increase the magnitude of its oscillation. In turn as the magnitude of the oscillation of the lever increaes this will modestly distort/alter the swing of the pendulum. Don't know if it will affect the minimum distance between the pendulum and coil but it clearly will affect the angle of the incoming magnet. Hence, the firing of the coil will be to some extent dependant on the magnitude of oscillation of the lever. I would guess if one constrained the oscillation of the lever to a set maximum, once the lever was consistently oscillating at this maximum one would have a consistent behavior of the incoming magnet to engineer the triggering. One thing I find interesting in the video is the lever seems to have two behaviors and the amplitude of one swing looks to be nearly half the amplitude of the other. Maybe this would be corrected/changed by a bipoolar commutator circuit such as you are working on. Actually why the heck is one oscillation of the lever strong and the next weak? That is strange, it is not a subtle finding you can see it in your video, you can even hear it Da da Da da Da da, it also isn't chaotic it consistenly is following that pattern. The lever is being driven by the pendulum, this implies that one end of the pendulum rotation is higher in magnitude than the next one 180 degrees opposite, yet the coil is being triggered when the magnet comes in from either direction correct? If so it would seem the strength of the firing depends on which direction the magnet approached the coil from which again seems pretty strange, could that be a thing? A bipolar commutation might change this, or again I said it intitially for the most part in jest, but if you used a lighter pendulum and did a full 360 degrees of rotation you would always have the coil being triggered by the magnet coming in from the same direction. One last thought, does that behavior remain if you stop gathering energy from the third coil to feed back into the system?
    Last edited by ZPDM; 05-01-2019 at 01:06 PM.

  9. #19
    Hi Paul,

    One issue I suspect you might run into with this set-up is that as the pendulum increases the magnitude of its swing, the bicycle frame lever will increase the magnitude of its oscillation. In turn as the magnitude of the oscillation of the lever increaes this will modestly distort/alter the swing of the pendulum. Don't know if it will affect the minimum distance between the pendulum and coil but it clearly will affect the angle of the incoming magnet. Hence, the firing of the coil will be to some extent dependant on the magnitude of oscillation of the lever.
    Yes, this is part of the problem. It can be corrected by having the coil mounted on the bicycle frame, but we're not ready to go there yet.

    I would guess if one constrained the oscillation of the lever to a set maximum, once the lever was consistently oscillating at this maximum one would have a consistent behavior of the incoming magnet to engineer the triggering.
    We do have stops on the bicycle frame which makes it consistent when it actually hits the stops. With new newer coil, it doesn't hit the lower stop which in turn causes erratic swinging. The pendulum doesn't always get close enough to the coil when this happens. Plus the trigger winding on the newer coil has fewer turns so requires the pendulum to come closer in order to fire the circuit.

    One thing I find interesting in the video is the lever seems to have two behaviors and the amplitude of one swing looks to be nearly half the amplitude of the other. Maybe this would be corrected/changed by a bipoolar commutator circuit such as you are working on. Actually why the heck is one oscillation of the lever strong and the next weak? That is strange, it is not a subtle finding you can see it in your video, you can even hear it Da da Da da Da da, it also isn't chaotic it consistenly is following that pattern. The lever is being driven by the pendulum, this implies that one end of the pendulum rotation is higher in magnitude than the next one 180 degrees opposite, yet the coil is being triggered when the magnet comes in from either direction correct? If so it would seem the strength of the firing depends on which direction the magnet approached the coil from which again seems pretty strange, could that be a thing?
    This is normal behavior and caused by the bicycle lever seeing more weight at the top of the backward swing than it does at the top of the forward swing due to the position of the swinging weight on the pendulum. The farther away from a pivot point on a lever the mass is, the more torque it applies to the lever. If you look at Veljko Milkovic’s videos you will see this same behavior. The direction of approach doesn't affect the triggering, but the coil to magnet gap is critical and was inconsistent with our newer coil.

    One last thought, does that behavior remain if you stop gathering energy from the third coil to feed back into the system?
    The only change in behavior between feeding the energy back to the run battery and collecting it on a secondary charge battery, is that the run battery doesn't drop voltage nearly as fast. The pendulum actually runs a little better when sending the energy back to the front because it is always working at a higher voltage.
    Gary Hammond,

  10. #20
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    If the one two punch doesn't wind up working, you can always have 3 coils in a row - one at the bottom like now and one on either side spaced appropriately and a simple SG circuit will still work for each. That would probably be more efficient than having an SG type circuit pull and push because with repulsion, you get that bucking loss you can't get back but that is non-existant in attraction mode.

    With attraction you'll have the cogging to overcome, which is normal and does reduce the mechanical work on the pendulum but if you wanted to go all out, you could short a coil on the same core right after the transistor shuts off to create a mild counter current that will essentially neutralize the cogging. But then you'd have to figure out the timing of that short to get it to work in two directions as well. Anyway, something to think about - is uses Lenz's Law to your advantage. Magnet induces current into shorted coil and shorted coil will make a magnetic field that repels the magnet. It has to be tuned with the right number of windings, etc. and can be done so there is such little repulsion that the magnet just swings on by after it is attracted to the coil from the initial SG attraction mode cycle. Anyway, food for thought for later advanced experiments.
    Last edited by Aaron Murakami; 05-01-2019 at 04:38 PM.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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