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Thread: Impedance matching

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    Yes I realise that, it was the way the answer was stated that confused me. You are not matching the coils impedance to C20 you are building a machine that will run at the C20 rate from the primary, to charge your batteries. The individual coil impedance is going to be the same for a single machine or multi coil machine, you simply add coils as your needs grow.

    Are you still running the Danny B rotored machines? He had very unique bearings.

    Tom C
    Tom,

    The last set of 3 SSG circuits running was a Fogal mod'ed circuit, and was doing really good, but the table the machine was on needed moving so the charging circuit was unhooked until i could move the other table with that set of SSG L16 charging batterys was on (heavy) So in the mean time, i had it spinning with the window motor addition, and testing various genny coils with the cap pulse charger. the primary batterys on the SSG machine table were still hooked up, but the SSG trigger switch was off so it was not running. Then some help showed up, and about that time it was time to go feed the critters, so i tell them to not touch any thing and went off to feed.... Then in the middle of feeding, they starting hollering that it was was on fire..... So i ran my butt up to see what the problem was, and when i came around the corner, smoke was boiling off of it. So i grabbed a wrench and unhooked the primary battery lead to the relay swapper system to shut it down.

    one of them must have flipped the trigger ON/OFF switch and with the output unhooked it blew up, and when Golf cart batterys short out something, it burns, so that set of 3 SSG PCB's were toast.....

    So at that time i was building the Green house and Aquaponics system and all my $$$ and time has been devoted to that since then, so i will get around to rebuilding the SSG PCB's, and buy some more L16 and GC's to get it all back to running real soon......

  2. #12
    Thanks Guys

    Lots of useful in formation here in this thread, thanks, that we are getting now that was not part of the Yahoo Groups, what a effort to play catch up all the time !

    @ RS sorry to hear about your loss, your " at 48 strands of 18ga at 120ft " coil mentioned, did you use it as a Solid state version or part of a rotor SSG version?

    Thanks

    Theunis

  3. #13
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Impedance matching and other things were talked about on the advanced groups, you had to do charge testing first. In some ways it was a bit of a pain, but in other ways it made sure you really UNDERSTOOD the machine. now we have members here who have builds that are all over the place, multi coil machines that wont run, guys building skate wheel rotors, horisontal rotors, wrong coils, wrong magnets, wrong circuits, everything.

    I do miss the ability to make sure people ran things correctly. We had a few members who just filled out the spread sheet to advance, and as soon as they got advanced, were asking questions about how to do a good solder joint!! so even after all the "gates" people were still idiots!! for the most part those who were advanced becaome the core of a research group that build good machines, that charged well, and they understood most of what we are talking about.

    We have access to JB now and then, but you have to understand that for him this "SG stuff" is 30 years old, he is way beyond the basic stuff, it was a research project. so he allows us to learn by doing. I do not expect to be spoon fed, and truthfully, I dont want to be.

    A simple look at the SG and what it does, is all you need. Be creative in your switching, coil inductance and impedance, wire size, how to gain mechanical advantage.it all matters. here are some simple questions:
    can you put the coil somewhere else to give mechanical advantage?
    what can you do with the mechanical? (hardly anyone pursures this)
    how can the mechanical be additive?
    how can you run a genny coil and it be non reflective?

    there are literally 100 experiments you can to with a single multi filar SG


    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Prinsloo View Post
    @ RS sorry to hear about your loss, your " at 48 strands of 18ga at 120ft " coil mentioned, did you use it as a Solid state version or part of a rotor SSG version?

    Thanks

    Theunis
    Theunuis,

    The 48 strands are in 6 coils with 8 strands each, except for the master with 9, and are on the Dan B. SSG unit described above, that had that last set of 3 specially modified SSG Driver PCB's blown up.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RS_ View Post
    Theunuis,

    The 48 strands are in 6 coils with 8 strands each, except for the master with 9, and are on the Dan B. SSG unit described above, that had that last set of 3 specially modified SSG Driver PCB's blown up.
    RS

    I for one keep my room where my SSG is running and batteries are, locked, it is so tempting to see a switch specially if there is a light/led or two burning for anyone/most people to not leave it alone, luckily no one got burnt your side. One must realize the short-circuit capacity on these monsters batteries are huge, should it happen, my small 177 amp batts have a short circuit capacity of 6 000 amp, enough to vaporize a wire and cause serious injury !

    RS Back to your build, and what is the main difference between the Dan B SSG and Fogal mod'ed circuit and the normal 6 coiler build example like Ralphs build?, except that you had doubled the strands per coil, also can you give more info on your dumps circuit, cap size, and how fast you dump (Hz), etc.

    I would also like (if you want) to post some picture of your damaged boards etc., (not to revel in your loss but) we need to realize the potential of danger with bigger systems, (if at all possible and if you are willing. )

    Thanks

    Theunis
    Last edited by Prinsloo; 12-09-2012 at 05:05 AM.

  6. #16
    The SSG machane Dan B. built, has a vertical shaft that run's on a single ball bearing on the bottom end, and has a normal bearing at the top end. It also has a 16inch disk with 6 magnets for 6 or 7 genny coil configurations, Chad and I wound the coils and built all the electronics and wiring, battery charge / discharge swapping system etc.....

    The genny coil Cap Dump is 3, 1.5F 24V audio super caps in series, and using 2 set's of 3 parallel MJL21193's in the full patent pulser configuration, to pulse 24V of golf cart battery's, at about once a sec +/- some, using a 556 PWM circuit. It also has a SSG Drive Battery Cap Dump Back Popper circuit that is relay based and runs at about once every 1 to 4 sec depending on the genny coils input that i had been testing at the time it blew up

    It also has a Window Motor addition that fits on the very top, to provide torque for the genny coils, because the Fogal mod'ed circuits had almost no torque compared to the standard SSG circuits. The window motor was for making up the difference, so that the SSG part, is just along for the ride..... the window motor's 2 FWBR outputs (Drive Strand and Pick Up Strand), also contributes to filling up the Cap Dump charger and the Back Popper circuit

    The SSG/SG Fogal mods are very advanced, and i will not go into that circuit here........... I tested 3 sets of 3 PCB's, a standard SSG, then one with a SCR Output mod (that i nick named The Tranny Killer), and the last one was the Fogal mod'ed set

    the pic below shows the 3 Fogal mod'ed PCB's bottom side with the burned up parts, and the one on the left is the top side of a standard SSG PCB that has several blown trannys too (I blew them up, when your pushing the envelope, things happen)........

    next pic is the Dan B SSG machine when we first got it running. it does not show all the equipment currently there, as all that was built later......
    it was nice and shiny then, now it's quite dusty and will need a good cleaning and electrical reconnecting to get it all back to running in it's new location in my new shop......
    the 3rd pic shows the PCB's mounted to the bottom side of the coil platform
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RS_; 05-07-2013 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    Impedance matching and other things were talked about on the advanced groups, you had to do charge testing first. In some ways it was a bit of a pain, but in other ways it made sure you really UNDERSTOOD the machine. now we have members here who have builds that are all over the place, multi coil machines that wont run, guys building skate wheel rotors, horisontal rotors, wrong coils, wrong magnets, wrong circuits, everything.

    I do miss the ability to make sure people ran things correctly. We had a few members who just filled out the spread sheet to advance, and as soon as they got advanced, were asking questions about how to do a good solder joint!! so even after all the "gates" people were still idiots!! for the most part those who were advanced becaome the core of a research group that build good machines, that charged well, and they understood most of what we are talking about.

    We have access to JB now and then, but you have to understand that for him this "SG stuff" is 30 years old, he is way beyond the basic stuff, it was a research project. so he allows us to learn by doing. I do not expect to be spoon fed, and truthfully, I dont want to be.

    A simple look at the SG and what it does, is all you need. Be creative in your switching, coil inductance and impedance, wire size, how to gain mechanical advantage.it all matters. here are some simple questions:
    can you put the coil somewhere else to give mechanical advantage?
    what can you do with the mechanical? (hardly anyone pursures this)
    how can the mechanical be additive?
    how can you run a genny coil and it be non reflective?

    there are literally 100 experiments you can to with a single multi filar SG


    Tom C
    Tom,
    Whilst I agree I think that it is good that the group is not seen as elitist. Or that moderators are trying to control the flow of information.
    That said, it may be helpful to set up a predefined program, for those that want to learn that way. The problem at the moment is the information is getting spread far and wide and joining the dots can sometimes be difficult.
    I think that experimenters need a proven formula for the first build, guaranteed to work! That proves in many people's minds that the technology works. Then divide up the forum into different variants. Monopole bifilar, monopole multistrand, monopole multicoil, superpole ....., window motor ....... Etc. each could have a sub forum beginner and advanced. I'm sure you guys have already discussed this... But the old forum format is probably confusing things.
    We don't want to get spoon fed but inevitably that will occur until we reach the threshold of baseline understanding, wherever that may be. At that point we really start learning!

    Sorry for rambling... In a nut shell, we need a program to above baseline level...Aaron and Peter's book has helped immensely... Your kit will also be of real assistance although cost is still prohibitive to some. Then a clear structure as we branch off into different build types. Different control circuits etc.

    Thank you all for your time and immense help so far. It is really very much appreciated. I am quite prepared to help out if you want to to have someone write a curriculum as I have a little experience in that area.
    Kind regards
    James
    Last edited by James Milner; 12-09-2012 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Spelling errors

  8. #18
    oops i meant vertical shaft

  9. #19
    Hi all!
    I have a question about my battery , currently i charge it 46 hours (my bat 12v 4 amp/h SLA) and discharge 20 hours.
    My charging battery have huge sulfation problem , because it reach the voltage after 46 hours from 2 volts to 6 volts.
    I noticed each time when i discharge battery , my resting voltage is in increase and when i measure charging battery each time at charge end i see little voltage increase from previous charge cycle.
    From my understanding this is probably good sign because each charge and discharge cycle my battery working better.
    Question is: how long it can take until i reach 12,6v and 14,5v volts?
    Should i use less current for powering my system (Bedini SSG) , that means longer charging time or more current for powering my system, with 120 mA for powering my Wheel ?
    I already read the book and understand the idea, but in the book don't described or presented an example of C20 charging process and some special cases where you get very sulfated battery's.
    Last edited by BEDINSSGUKRAINE; 12-10-2012 at 07:29 AM.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEDINSSGUKRAINE View Post
    Hi all!
    I have a question about my battery , currently i charge it 46 hours (my bat 12v 4 amp/h SLA) and discharge 20 hours.
    My charging battery have huge sulfation problem , because it reach the voltage after 46 hours from 2 volts to 6 volts.
    I noticed each time when i discharge battery , my resting voltage is in increase and when i measure charging battery each time at charge end i see little voltage increase from previous charge cycle.
    From my understanding this is probably good sign because each charge and discharge cycle my battery working better.
    Question is: how long it can take until i reach 12,6v and 14,5v volts?
    Should i use less current for powering my system (Bedini SSG) , that means longer charging time or more current for powering my system, with 120 mA for powering my Wheel ?
    I already read the book and understand the idea, but in the book don't described or presented an example of C20 charging process and some special cases where you get very sulfated battery's.
    you need to read the Battery bible

    Directory:Bedini SG:Battery Characteristics - PESWiki

    its the second link down. it will answer most of your questions.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

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