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Thread: Charging 3 105 AH batteries with SSG

  1. #21
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    I think the 15.8v comes from the Battery Bible. The chart that shows the topping voltage dip is based on a hair over 2.6 volts per cell. At Bedini's around 2004 or so when Peter worked there for a year, they did a lot of non-stop charging/discharging tests and found that the low 15's is where that topping voltage dip happens on the charging graph - I don't think they ever needed to go above 15.3 volts.

    What I found with new deep cycles is that I get very close to 100% of the manufacturer's rating based on a 20 hour discharge. When I put a 2A12 on the battery then discharge after a full charge when it is new, I have gotten 110% of the manufacturer's rating. That was with 1 single charge cycle after discharging it.

    How will an "opening" of the SG damage the CBA IV? If the CBA IV is clamped to the battery getting charged, disconnecting the output of the SG may hurt the transistors if the neon bulbs don't protect them but nothing will happen to the CBA IV. At least, I don't see how it will be damaged.
    Hi Aaron,

    Yes, 15.8v comes from the Battery Bible. In reality I don't think I've ever seen a deep cycle flooded lead acid top out at that voltage. Low 15's is what I generally see too. Sorry if I implied that 15.8v was mandatory.

    I have a 100Ah deep cycle that I'm rejuvenating (Century N70T) that I picked up at the local dump. After the first charge I only got 6Ah out of it on a 1A discharge and when charging it would top out at around 13.5v. After 27 cycles I'm up to 67Ah on a 3.3A discharge. It tops out at around 14.6v but each cycle gets just a little bit higher.

    I'm still using my CBA II after all these years. It's the most used tool I own. That dip in voltage when charging is critical, especially for rejuvenating batteries. It's also a great indicator that your charger is capable of fully charging the battery.

    John K.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    I think the 15.8v comes from the Battery Bible. The chart that shows the topping voltage dip is based on a hair over 2.6 volts per cell. At Bedini's around 2004 or so when Peter worked there for a year, they did a lot of non-stop charging/discharging tests and found that the low 15's is where that topping voltage dip happens on the charging graph - I don't think they ever needed to go above 15.3 volts.

    What I found with new deep cycles is that I get very close to 100% of the manufacturer's rating based on a 20 hour discharge. When I put a 2A12 on the battery then discharge after a full charge when it is new, I have gotten 110% of the manufacturer's rating. That was with 1 single charge cycle after discharging it.

    How will an "opening" of the SG damage the CBA IV? If the CBA IV is clamped to the battery getting charged, disconnecting the output of the SG may hurt the transistors if the neon bulbs don't protect them but nothing will happen to the CBA IV. At least, I don't see how it will be damaged.
    Hi Aaron,
    Thanks for that little briefings.In fact I too saw this happening.Generally we consider 80% of the manufacturer's rating but with several cycles im getting it close to the this rating and eventually may stabilize like what you said. (>100%).
    About the CBA VI the radiant can kill the FET inside it depending on the state of the battery connected across it. (you never know if you are connecting an Open cell battery across it in which case the Radiant is right across the connected CBA IV).
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  3. #23
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi Aaron,
    Thanks for that little briefings.In fact I too saw this happening.Generally we consider 80% of the manufacturer's rating but with several cycles im getting it close to the this rating and eventually may stabilize like what you said. (>100%).
    About the CBA VI the radiant can kill the FET inside it depending on the state of the battery connected across it. (you never know if you are connecting an Open cell battery across it in which case the Radiant is right across the connected CBA IV).
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Ok, I get what you're saying. I've never seen that happen.

    When the CBA-IV is connected to a battery, the battery is such a low impedance path for the radiant that the battery just sucks it up like a sponge and it doesn't make it to the cba or other meter - from what I've experienced.

    This is the same reason that a 2A12 cap dump or even a spike charger on a car battery that is still hooked up to the cables on a car will not damage the car computer and other electronics. The battery sucks it up and it will never make it elsewhere. I won't guarantee that so if anyone fries their care computer, etc. it's their own responsibility - I'm just saying I've never seen those problems.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  4. #24
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Ok, I get what you're saying. I've never seen that happen.

    When the CBA-IV is connected to a battery, the battery is such a low impedance path for the radiant that the battery just sucks it up like a sponge and it doesn't make it to the cba or other meter - from what I've experienced.

    This is the same reason that a 2A12 cap dump or even a spike charger on a car battery that is still hooked up to the cables on a car will not damage the car computer and other electronics. The battery sucks it up and it will never make it elsewhere. I won't guarantee that so if anyone fries their care computer, etc. it's their own responsibility - I'm just saying I've never seen those problems.
    Sure you are correct..just that Murrphy's law lurks every where lol!!
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Koorn View Post
    Hi Aaron,

    Yes, 15.8v comes from the Battery Bible. In reality I don't think I've ever seen a deep cycle flooded lead acid top out at that voltage. Low 15's is what I generally see too. Sorry if I implied that 15.8v was mandatory.

    I have a 100Ah deep cycle that I'm rejuvenating (Century N70T) that I picked up at the local dump. After the first charge I only got 6Ah out of it on a 1A discharge and when charging it would top out at around 13.5v. After 27 cycles I'm up to 67Ah on a 3.3A discharge. It tops out at around 14.6v but each cycle gets just a little bit higher.

    I'm still using my CBA II after all these years. It's the most used tool I own. That dip in voltage when charging is critical, especially for rejuvenating batteries. It's also a great indicator that your charger is capable of fully charging the battery.

    John K.
    John/Aaron,

    Just wondering, Should not an increase in Capacity (by SG) every cycle also increase the time taken to charge the same battery when the same charge rate current is used?(Primary ) or does it work counter intuitive fashion?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  6. #26
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    John/Aaron,

    Just wondering, Should not an increase in Capacity (by SG) every cycle also increase the time taken to charge the same battery when the same charge rate current is used?(Primary ) or does it work counter intuitive fashion?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Hi Faraday,

    I've only seen the charge time decrease on perfectly good battery that is repeatedly putting out it's maximum capacity (i.e fully rejuvenated). Bedini always said that once the battery gets used to being radiantly charged the time to charge it does decrease.

    John K.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Koorn View Post
    Hi Faraday,

    I've only seen the charge time decrease on perfectly good battery that is repeatedly putting out it's maximum capacity (i.e fully rejuvenated). Bedini always said that once the battery gets used to being radiantly charged the time to charge it does decrease.

    John K.
    Thanks JK! How fast and safey can we Radiantly charge the Battery? suppose its a100Ah battery (deep cycle flodded) consideringa de-rating factor and effective capacity of 96Ah and say a rate of C5 charging and discharge rate of 5hr (19.2A Load current). is that the maximum one can go?
    Also, I have seen an interesting behavior with the SG charged battery.. A fully charged Battery when subjected to the load dips down in the terminal Voltage very fast up to a point and then starts to rise up from there and kind of oscillate in this fashion. Now, is'nt that a characteristic to the Radiant Kind of Charging?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Last edited by Faraday88; 12-19-2018 at 10:06 PM.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Koorn View Post
    Hi Faraday,

    I've only seen the charge time decrease on perfectly good battery that is repeatedly putting out it's maximum capacity (i.e fully rejuvenated). Bedini always said that once the battery gets used to being radiantly charged the time to charge it does decrease.

    John K.
    Hi JK,
    My set up is already showing up increased Capacity (just 2 cycles of Charge -discharge)and decrease in Charge up time! i think it will get better and better until a platue of saturation is reached. My charging section is not yet at the planned 19.2A rate though.Currently im charging the bank(ofcourse SSG) at 5 A rate and its charging quicker than the previous cycle!
    Im little worried about the Bank temperature when i go for the 19.2A rate.I anticipate there will be thermal runaway at the Cold-boiling regime accompanied with it. your inputs appreciated please..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Last edited by Faraday88; 12-20-2018 at 02:42 AM.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  9. #29
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Thanks JK! How fast and safey can we Radiantly charge the Battery? suppose its a100Ah battery (deep cycle flodded) consideringa de-rating factor and effective capacity of 96Ah and say a rate of C5 charging and discharge rate of 5hr (19.2A Load current). is that the maximum one can go?
    Also, I have seen an interesting behavior with the SG charged battery.. A fully charged Battery when subjected to the load dips down in the terminal Voltage very fast up to a point and then starts to rise up from there and kind of oscillate in this fashion. Now, is'nt that a characteristic to the Radiant Kind of Charging?
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    I'd always suggest the C20 charge/discharge rate if you can. You can get away with pushing it harder every now and then but for a deep cycle I'd never push it harder than C10.

    Remember that heat is your enemy. Heat = wasted energy and shorter lifetime. Keep it cool, keep it forever

    As for your "interesting behaviour", I've seen that too. I have no idea if it's a by-product of radiant charging. I've usually put it down to loading the battery too hard at the start.

    John K.

  10. #30
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Hi JK,
    My set up is already showing up increased Capacity (just 2 cycles of Charge -discharge)and decrease in Charge up time! i think it will get better and better until a platue of saturation is reached. My charging section is not yet at the planned 19.2A rate though.Currently im charging the bank(ofcourse SSG) at 5 A rate and its charging quicker than the previous cycle!
    Im little worried about the Bank temperature when i go for the 19.2A rate.I anticipate there will be thermal runaway at the Cold-boiling regime accompanied with it. your inputs appreciated please..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Faraday,

    Same as last post - I think you will kill that battery at a C5 rate. Stick to C20 and you can't go wrong. If you haven't read Peter's "Battery Secrets" yet, I thoroughly recommend it.

    Let nature run it's course...

    John K.

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