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Thread: John Bedini and Twisted Wire

  1. #11
    @bluestix
    I have watched both, 1 and 2 and worn out the FE book and read from front to back the newest SG Handbook and built and experimented with five of these suckers. I appreciate your reference, but I think this is one of those things that have been disseminated in bits and pieces and I was looking for sensible answer for myself and the others that built and experiment with these devices.
    Thanks,
    Randy
    Last edited by Tachyon Catcher; 11-29-2012 at 08:59 PM.
    Imagination can take you to places of new posibilities. Without it, you go where others tell you as you know no difference.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachyon Catcher View Post
    @bluestix
    I have watched both, 1 and 2 and worn out the FE book and read from front to back the newest SG Handbook and built and experimented with five of these suckers. I appreciate your reference, but I think this is one of those things that have been disseminated in bits and pieces and I was looking for sensible answer for myself and the others that built and experiment with these devices.
    Thanks,
    Randy
    From the description of part one:
    After watching this DVD, even more experienced builders will realize that perhaps they over complicated things when they hear the master explain the basic phenomenology and how he sets about harnessing it to provide power.

  3. #13
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    Litz wire is expensive or very labour intensive. So we twist then in a single direction.
    More Here
    Litz wire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #14
    hey tom. Whether we are running the coil at 120khz or 10hz the duration of the spike is going to be the same. That's more dependent on the batteries. Off the top of my head (I would have to check my scope) the duration of the spike before the current kicks in is around 1us... if this was AC that would put the skin depth of copper down to around 0.066mm so with John's preference of #20 wire there would still be significant skin effect... But I don't think the skin effect works quite the same with pulse DC as it does with AC since with AC one peak is having to fight against the preceeding trough, which obviously isn't a problem with DC. I would imagine the skin effect for pulse DC isn't as bad, but it will still be present.

    Then again, the skin effect might not even be applicable to the type of energy we are dealing with...

  5. #15
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth View Post
    hey tom. Whether we are running the coil at 120khz or 10hz the duration of the spike is going to be the same. That's more dependent on the batteries. Off the top of my head (I would have to check my scope) the duration of the spike before the current kicks in is around 1us... if this was AC that would put the skin depth of copper down to around 0.066mm so with John's preference of #20 wire there would still be significant skin effect... But I don't think the skin effect works quite the same with pulse DC as it does with AC since with AC one peak is having to fight against the preceeding trough, which obviously isn't a problem with DC. I would imagine the skin effect for pulse DC isn't as bad, but it will still be present.

    Then again, the skin effect might not even be applicable to the type of energy we are dealing with...
    Yup, who knows...... I do not believe it is all that mysterious, same wire length makes sense from a balance standpoint, as does mutual indictance, and some form of inductance in henries at whatever frequency, my coils perform "marginally" better when litzed. Maybe this is is because I was very careful when windin non litzed coils, in laying them parallel.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  6. #16
    I have much less education and experience than others relevant to this question however I will throw in my two cents.

    By way of background, quoting from Tesla's patent on a MEANS FOR INCREASING THE INTENSITY OF ELECTRICAL OSCILLATIONS
    "in other words, to produce the greatest rise of current or electrical pressure in the same—it is desirable to make its inductance as large and its resistance as small as practicable. ... On the other hand, an increase of the section of the conductor with the object of reducing its resistance is, beyond a certain limit, of little or no value, principally because electrical oscillations, particularly those of high frequency, pass mainly through the superficial conducting layers, and while it is true that this drawback may be overcome in a measure by the employment of thin ribbons, tubes, or stranded cables, yet in practice other disadvantages arise, which often more than offset the gain."

    Further, when you pulse an inductor with DC, what shows up, at least on my multimeter is AC current, of course that is prior to being rectified by any Bedini type diode arrangement. If we look at the Wikipedia write up on Litz wire it states that at 60 Khz AC the skin depth of a copper wire is 0.01 inches. So no matter what you started with you have functionally 30 gauge wire at 60 KHz. So I thought the reason Litz wire is used is simply a matter of overcoming skin effect at higher frequencies, to keep resistance low and inductance high as Tesla recommended.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    Hi Randy,
    Think about a cable......the kind they use to lift very heavy objects.......how do they do that without chafing one another strands winding and unwinding.........they use a twisted configuration. This twisted arrangement allows the several strands to lay evenly on the spool and wind allowing all of the strands to wind at the same exact length without chafing or gaining length. I know for some this is a difficult concept but I do see it thsi way.

    Bud
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth View Post
    hey tom. Whether we are running the coil at 120khz or 10hz the duration of the spike is going to be the same. That's more dependent on the batteries. Off the top of my head (I would have to check my scope) the duration of the spike before the current kicks in is around 1us... if this was AC that would put the skin depth of copper down to around 0.066mm so with John's preference of #20 wire there would still be significant skin effect... But I don't think the skin effect works quite the same with pulse DC as it does with AC since with AC one peak is having to fight against the preceeding trough, which obviously isn't a problem with DC. I would imagine the skin effect for pulse DC isn't as bad, but it will still be present.

    Then again, the skin effect might not even be applicable to the type of energy we are dealing with...
    seph,

    if we look at JB's reference to leedskalnins work, he always talks about how the druid gas rides on the outside of the wire, spinning around the wire itself. i think there is something on the atomic level going on with the wire when it is litzed. I am sure there is an explaination for it. it is more than just skin effect I believe it is what is happening outside the wire.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  9. #19
    I read in a collection of threads that like Tom said, Mutual Induction; or as it said where I read it, Keeping the Capacitance & Induction the same so the multi-coils will fire together and with the same nice pretty single precise wave.

    Darren

  10. #20
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    If one studies the Tesla Pancake coil, that geometry tells you more stories on the need to twist them when they are wound simultaneously..(two Insulated wires)
    The Flat- Pancake geometry is very similar to the Atomic structure of matter and its interaction with the aether.....so well did Tesla understand this...unfortunately this is not what we have in our text books teaching us God when will things change?...
    rgds,
    Faraday88.

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