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Thread: ZFM Advanced Explorations

  1. #51
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    ZFM Tech Data etc

    Hello to all,

    Sun is finally getting higher and Spring does get the energy flowing again after the winter doldrums. The ZFM BiPolar switch has been refurbished and some initial test runs completed to verify the Bemf tests with the Cole Cemf circuit. The results are very close to the prior tests and do show the previous gains. Waiting on the other capacitors before finalizing these results.

    In the interim I am posting a number of charts depicting the performance of the current ZFM model without the Cemf circuit. The Charts are as follows - apologize for the use of .pdf's.

    The first chart depicts the motor input amperage versus torque load. These amperage values are simple way of describing how the motor behaves as the load is increased. You will note that this relationship is very linear with the amperage maximized at stall or zero RPM. The minimum amperage was at no load speed indicating the minimum draw created by friction, windage, etc. In all instances the ZFM was operated at 36 volts DC for consistency.

    ZFM Chart1.pdf

    The second Chart depicts the Output Power of the motor vs. Torque Load. The physical limits of the Torque testing device precluded data over the 900 gram point and below 250 grams, however the motor still had some good bottom end power, though unmeasured. The curve does demonstrate that the motor speed is very dependent on load for a given voltage. Varying the voltage can compensate for this inherent design trait and expand the usefulness of the ZFM.

    ZFM Chart2.pdf

    The third Chart depicts the Output Power vs RPM. One can expect the curve to further flatten out as the load is increased with the RPM continuing to drop. It does appear that there is a broad range of usable RPM.

    ZFM Chart3.pdf

    The fourth Chart depicts the motor Efficiency vs. Torque load and is, perhaps, the most interesting of the charts. The basic motor Efficiency appears to remain relatively constant over a wide range of Torque load.

    ZFM Chart4.pdf

    From a flexibility perspective the ZFM is able to respond to varying voltages as needed. The power output and input curves of the motor will shift to yield more speed and with more output based on higher voltage, the reverse is true for lower voltages.

    Done with this segment, ready for tapping the maples...

    Thank you for your attention!!!
    Yaro

    "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  2. #52
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Hi Yaro,

    I've been interested in seeing what a ZFM will do with a real core, but I keep seeing evidence that full air core is the way to go.

    There was an air core motor at last year's conference in the demo/vendor room and it has come a long way. It's like an SG but with air cores, using Babcock's switching method and going up in size and voltage takes the results to another level. It can go almost 10,000 rpm, turn a very conventional DC motor used as a generator, put out a constant 20 watts from that full Lenz effect generator and the batteries stay charged up.

    It's air core, but has a lot of radiant going to a recovery battery bank that really pushes it but the coils are pretty good size and there are maybe 8 of them.

    I think if there is a ZFM 4-5 times bigger than the one you are testing and you keep the voltage up around 48-60 volts that it would have similar results. Especially, applying everything you have learned so far. You and James together have more practical knowledge about the ZFM at this point than anyone else by a longshot.

    I'm still swamped with the MWO project but at least we've been over the hump since December - I still want to build one that is a bit on the larger size and would definitely would like to consult with you when that time comes.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #53
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Hey Aaron,

    Good to read that someone else is considering building a ZFM type of motor. I encourage you to go forward with your planned build and will assist you with design questions as much as our meager experience allows.

    Bear in mind that the limiting factor here will be the Bipolar switch amperage and overall wattage capacity in conjunction with the timing method. It has been demonstrated that there are three basic ways of increasing power and RPM: 1) voltage increase, 2) varying the series coil resistance and 3) varying advance and duty cycle.

    The truest method for determining the capability of the machine is to focus on its ability to provide torque over a wide range of RPM. Typically, in the ZFM design concept, increasing the voltage increases the power output, but with increasing heat in the switching board transistors.

    I digress - go for it and contact me if there are further questions.
    Yaro

    "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  4. #54
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    If I look at a larger build, I might look at using a Babcock type circuit since it can reverse polarity and handle a lot of power. It's fast enough to take the recovery from the coil and put it to a cap and put it right back to the front to drop the input requirement. I don't know enough about the circuit itself and would see if he can help with that part. The motor I mentioned above uses a Babcock circuit but does not reverse polarity so it can be configured either way.

    Have you ever tried a bifilar coil wired in series like in Tesla's patent for the ZFM motor coils? https://patents.google.com/patent/US512340A/en

    It's frequency specific but basically has no back emf and only has ohmic loses. Peter and I did a gen coil like that on a SG that lit the LED bank and if it was positioned just right, the RPM has 0 drop when the load was on. "Turion" in Energetic Forum in the 3 battery thread has up-scaled that concept quite a bit for his generator.

    I don't know how that arrangement will work for a ZFM on the motoring side of things or if it is more beneficial for generator action.

    I ran that by Eric Dollard and if just 2 wires in series, he agreed it would have no self induction as the patent claims, but he said it would have poor EMF output. Turion's results appear to challenge that. Eric said it would be just like a resonant 2-wire transmission line. He's up to analyzing it if I can provide all the details, but I'll do more of my own experiments first and provide him with my own results.

    Peter and I wound that coil with 10 wires that were 100 feet each and put all those in series. Turion used about 12 that were about 150-160 feet each of 23 awg.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  5. #55
    Making a larger ZFM motor, will require the JB Ferris Wheel Circuit in a H bridge circuit configuration like the ZFM H bridge circuit is.......

    Then advance to a mulity strand muilty transistor BJ/Cole H bridge circuit w/ FWBR output arrangement, For a really powerful ZFM motor...

    i can see 4 advanced motors like this in a car's 4 wheels....

  6. #56
    Making a larger ZFM motor, will require the JB Ferris Wheel Circuit in a H bridge circuit configuration like the ZFM H bridge circuit is.......

    Then advance to a mulity strand per coil, muilty transistor BJ/Cole H bridge driver circuit w/ FWBR output arrangement, For a really powerful ZFM motor...

    i can see 4 advanced motors like this in a car's 4 wheels....

    I designed a 8 IGBT BJ/Cole circuits, 8 coil motor driver circuit for Alan Francore

    way back in the day, that circuit with 2 sets of JB/Cole circuits stuffed on the 8 circuit PCB, with the adjustable FWBR, would run a large 24V DC motor i found as surplus, with 800V to 1100V spikes and would fill a 1.3Farid cap bank to 40V+ every 2 sec's between dumps to Golf cart Battery's *(L16 batterys)wrong*
    Last edited by RS_; 03-31-2019 at 03:44 PM.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Hello RS,

    Thanks for your expert feedback on the larger ZFM motor. As of right now we are only pushing an overall motor efficiency of 30 to 40%. Some of this is due to the simple Reed switch timing. Improving upon this will jack up the performance for sure, based on experience gained over the past two years. The FWBR appears to be one of the ways to improve on this - the other cruder method is to use Hall switches.

    Based on my experiments it appears that going to a 6 pole rotor, a la R Cole, will give further gains in overall efficiency in conjunction with major gains in torque. Of course, the coil config is a bit different from the Bedini ZFM principle of using an equivalent empty arc between the driving coils. There is still a way to go for a truly useful and practical application.

    In any case thanks to both you and Aaron for jostling my mindset to further explorations! Perhaps going to a 3 ZFM coil arrangement with 6 poles would be an informational bonus...

    Back to my BEMF explorations.

    Still have a foot of snow in my front yard and the outdoor season beckons after a too long winter. Aargh!
    Last edited by Yaro1776; 03-28-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    Yaro

    "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  8. #58
    Yaro.

    I would not consider Hall switches as a Cruder form of switching..... i consider Hall switches a far more elegant and useful form of switching compared to the reed switches, that the high RPM of a ZFM is pushing to it very limits....... most of the later window motor H Bridge BJ/Cole circuits use Hall switches too..... The Ferris Wheel uses hall switching in both of it's BJ/Cole circuits.

    All of my various BJ/Cole circuits have used Hall Switching. I 3D printed a 3 magnet timing wheel and 2 adjustable Hall sw holders for the faux window motor kit we all got at the 2011 conference that i modified to be a real window motor with 3 coils like JB shows in his notes.....
    Last edited by RS_; 03-29-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Hey RS,

    I misspoke on the Hall switch timing and stand corrected. The reed switches are a great place to start, but as the need for precision increases their performance leaves something to be desired. Actually I have been considering the Hall switches for the next ZFM phase, but then an optical switching arrangement may also be useful.

    I did not request more detail on the H Bridge circuit, but I am now. It would be good to know the basic circuit layout for higher amperages of operation.

    I do not have the 3D printing capability for making Hall switch mounts for the next ZFM iteration timing. Still considering an optical arrangement for this next build since it appears to have a higher degree of precision for setting and varying the duty cycle and advance which are both critical from an experimental standpoint.

    As described in Ron Cole's notes, well, he pushed the motor efficiency way up there (150%+), that makes the present performance (30-40%) rather puny. But overall, Cole's motor still was a relatively small output. Question remains as to whether this design concept is scaleable???

    Increasing the voltage, as Aaron suggests, can at times be a bit on the wild side. I have experienced several failures at high voltages of the rotor Neo's well over 10,000 RPM. Not recommended from a safety and sanity perspective. One does become gun shy... But improving the torque loading design method will certainly help to minimize this high RPM aspect. I will try jacking up the voltage to the max of 60 volts DC later this week and see what happens...

    I truly appreciate your perspective, comments and feedback while exploring the unknown zones.

    I need a pointer lead to look at the 3 coil design more closely.
    Yaro

    "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  10. #60
    Hea,

    Here are Pics of the 3D printed window motor timing wheel and hall holders / mounting bracket

    I have tryed Optical, but you have to have a timing wheel designed for it, that is adjustable in timing trigger position to the coils and pulse width of the pulse that seams a bit more tricky than the hall sw / magnet timing wheel.... I most likely could design and 3d print a timing wheel for a Opto sensor in a few days.... i did not have this option till a few years ago and would have tried it back then if i would have had it handy....

    will try to find pics of the 8 pole steel timing wheel rotor, i had a professor buddy with a machine shop make for me way back in the day, that will work with hall or opto....

    a adjustable voltage regulator can be a speed controller.... Look at the SCH i gave you at the 2015? conference....
    email me for more info

    Any one with pics of the 3 pole window motor diagram from JB's notes handy to post....?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RS_; 03-31-2019 at 04:59 PM.

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