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Thread: Standard SSG help

  1. #1

    Standard SSG help

    Hi guys, I was able to make 2 coils. a 20/23 on the standard size coil spool. and also a 23/26 on the mini coil spool. I was able to get the circuit working today. It works using either coil, but I have a slight problem...

    The coil doesn't want to repel the magnets on my rotor, it seems to attract them instead. The circuit is hooked up correctly and I am using ceramic magnets. What I ended up doing was sticking a magnet on the backend of the coil and this worked. So I got the coil to repel the magnets on my shopping cart wheel rotor and the wheel started to speed up and was finally running normal. After a couple minutes I took the magnet off the back end of the coil and it still ran fine and repelled the rotor and stayed spinning. (I had this issue using either coil for some reason) The shopping cart wheel rotor has ceramic magnets embedded into it. It runs very nice and smooth and fast.

    I decided to take the standard size coil with me to my shop where I have my 25" bike wheel on the wooden frame I still have from a few years ago when I first built one of these (I never got that far even back then. I only got it to run and never learned how to tune it. I ended up kind of melting the plastic on my coil somehow running it off 24v.) So I know this bike wheel works. It turns really smooth and doesn't wobble. So all I had to do was stick the coil under it and hook it up to batteries. I did this but had the same problem with my coil wanting to attract instead of repel. So I stuck the magnet on the backside again and was able to get it to repel finally, but the bike wheel would not stay spinning. No matter how hard I spun it to start it, it would end up slowing down eventually.

    Now earlier in the day I used this same coil with my shopping cart wheel and it ran fine, even using 9v batteries. I thought maybe the little 12volt battery with about 10 volts in it wasn't enough for it to run the bike wheel so I hooked it up to my solar panel. All this did was heat up the transistor pretty quickly but still would not stay spinning. So my questions are:

    1. Why is my coil not repelling the magnets on the rotor (even though I have everything with the north poles pointing each other)
    2. Why will it run the shopping cart rotor but not the bike wheel rotor?

    I have double checked everything. The bike wheel ran fine a few years back when I first started messing around with my first ssg. That coil was purchased through rpmgt.com and it was a 23/26 standard size spool. These ones that i am using now are ones that I made myself. I have wound them the correct way. They don't have as many turns as the one I used back then, but they have enough. I am having issues with both of my coils now doing this. The standard size coil has the welding rods and the little coil has tie wire as the core. They both work with the shopping cart wheel (as long as I put the magnet on the backend to get it to repel the rotor magnets when starting it). I am using ceramic magnets and I am going off the same circuit I used back then using everything exactly as it has in the picture

    Any ideas?

    Thanks in advance.maxresdefault.jpg
    Last edited by Buz86; 09-06-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buz86 View Post
    Hi guys, I was able to make 2 coils. a 20/23 on the standard size coil spool. and also a 23/26 on the mini coil spool. I was able to get the circuit working today. It works using either coil, but I have a slight problem...

    The coil doesn't want to repel the magnets on my rotor, it seems to attract them instead. The circuit is hooked up correctly and I am using ceramic magnets. What I ended up doing was sticking a magnet on the backend of the coil and this worked. So I got the coil to repel the magnets on my shopping cart wheel rotor and the wheel started to speed up and was finally running normal. After a couple minutes I took the magnet off the back end of the coil and it still ran fine and repelled the rotor and stayed spinning. (I had this issue using either coil for some reason) The shopping cart wheel rotor has ceramic magnets embedded into it. It runs very nice and smooth and fast.

    I decided to take the standard size coil with me to my shop where I have my 25" bike wheel on the wooden frame I still have from a few years ago when I first built one of these (I never got that far even back then. I only got it to run and never learned how to tune it. I ended up kind of melting the plastic on my coil somehow running it off 24v.) So I know this bike wheel works. It turns really smooth and doesn't wobble. So all I had to do was stick the coil under it and hook it up to batteries. I did this but had the same problem with my coil wanting to attract instead of repel. So I stuck the magnet on the backside again and was able to get it to repel finally, but the bike wheel would not stay spinning. No matter how hard I spun it to start it, it would end up slowing down eventually.

    Now earlier in the day I used this same coil with my shopping cart wheel and it ran fine, even using 9v batteries. I thought maybe the little 12volt battery with about 10 volts in it wasn't enough for it to run the bike wheel so I hooked it up to my solar panel. All this did was heat up the transistor pretty quickly but still would not stay spinning. So my questions are:

    1. Why is my coil not repelling the magnets on the rotor (even though I have everything with the north poles pointing each other)
    2. Why will it run the shopping cart rotor but not the bike wheel rotor?

    I have double checked everything. The bike wheel ran fine a few years back when I first started messing around with my first ssg. That coil was purchased through rpmgt.com and it was a 23/26 standard size spool. These ones that i am using now are ones that I made myself. I have wound them the correct way. They don't have as many turns as the one I used back then, but they have enough. I am having issues with both of my coils now doing this. The standard size coil has the welding rods and the little coil has tie wire as the core. They both work with the shopping cart wheel (as long as I put the magnet on the backend to get it to repel the rotor magnets when starting it). I am using ceramic magnets and I am going off the same circuit I used back then using everything exactly as it has in the picture

    Any ideas?

    Thanks in advance.maxresdefault.jpg
    Hi,

    1. Never use a heavy Rotor for SSG/SG (SSG/SG is a NOT a Torque motor it is Speed Motor per weight of the rotor)
    2. You must have 450 Turns for the gauge of wires you used for the Bifilar coils.
    3. It looks like every thing other than your Transistor has gone bad. change it and you may have it running again.
    4. Type of Magnet really doesn't matter, Yes Ceramics are recommended since these will not saturate your core. Neos will.
    5. Repulsion mode is more efficient than the Attraction mode but they both have an advantage when used together in a Dual Mode configuration.
    6. Finally, have the pot setting done from lower value to higher value once you get continuous spinning and arrive at a sweet spot with maximum speed for least current draw.

    There is no reason why you shouldn't be getting it running with all these above points taken care of.
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ''Knowledge hails from the Past and its people...The Future is only its Arena of realization''

  3. #3
    The coil doesn't want to repel the magnets on my rotor, it seems to attract them instead.
    Attraction is better anyway but if you want repulsion then simply reverse your polarity on the coil, either way will run though. Put your "tops" where your "bottoms" are now and the bottoms where the tops are. It's an electromagnet so your direction of current flow matters for the magnetic field it will produce. This is a common issue and results from the direction you wind the coil when you make it.

    You may have to reverse your trigger or maybe not depending on how it is currently configured. The base of the transistor will fire on the Positive side of the wave that is inducted to the trigger so you want your polarity on the trigger correct or the timing will be off. Most people do not notice but look closesly at the diagram and note that the trigger is in reverse polarity compared to the power winding.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 09-07-2017 at 06:10 AM.

  4. #4
    I'm curious what is leading you to believe it is in attraction mode, and what leads you to believe when you add the magnet to the back of the coil that this reverses to repulsion?
    I ask because that should not be...


    Quote Originally Posted by Buz86 View Post
    Hi guys, I was able to make 2 coils. a 20/23 on the standard size coil spool. and also a 23/26 on the mini coil spool. I was able to get the circuit working today. It works using either coil, but I have a slight problem...

    The coil doesn't want to repel the magnets on my rotor, it seems to attract them instead. The circuit is hooked up correctly and I am using ceramic magnets. What I ended up doing was sticking a magnet on the backend of the coil and this worked. So I got the coil to repel the magnets on my shopping cart wheel rotor and the wheel started to speed up and was finally running normal. After a couple minutes I took the magnet off the back end of the coil and it still ran fine and repelled the rotor and stayed spinning. (I had this issue using either coil for some reason) The shopping cart wheel rotor has ceramic magnets embedded into it. It runs very nice and smooth and fast.

    I decided to take the standard size coil with me to my shop where I have my 25" bike wheel on the wooden frame I still have from a few years ago when I first built one of these (I never got that far even back then. I only got it to run and never learned how to tune it. I ended up kind of melting the plastic on my coil somehow running it off 24v.) So I know this bike wheel works. It turns really smooth and doesn't wobble. So all I had to do was stick the coil under it and hook it up to batteries. I did this but had the same problem with my coil wanting to attract instead of repel. So I stuck the magnet on the backside again and was able to get it to repel finally, but the bike wheel would not stay spinning. No matter how hard I spun it to start it, it would end up slowing down eventually.

    Now earlier in the day I used this same coil with my shopping cart wheel and it ran fine, even using 9v batteries. I thought maybe the little 12volt battery with about 10 volts in it wasn't enough for it to run the bike wheel so I hooked it up to my solar panel. All this did was heat up the transistor pretty quickly but still would not stay spinning. So my questions are:

    1. Why is my coil not repelling the magnets on the rotor (even though I have everything with the north poles pointing each other)
    2. Why will it run the shopping cart rotor but not the bike wheel rotor?

    I have double checked everything. The bike wheel ran fine a few years back when I first started messing around with my first ssg. That coil was purchased through rpmgt.com and it was a 23/26 standard size spool. These ones that i am using now are ones that I made myself. I have wound them the correct way. They don't have as many turns as the one I used back then, but they have enough. I am having issues with both of my coils now doing this. The standard size coil has the welding rods and the little coil has tie wire as the core. They both work with the shopping cart wheel (as long as I put the magnet on the backend to get it to repel the rotor magnets when starting it). I am using ceramic magnets and I am going off the same circuit I used back then using everything exactly as it has in the picture

    Any ideas?

    Thanks in advance.maxresdefault.jpg

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    3. It looks like every thing other than your Transistor has gone bad. change it and you may have it running again.
    I thought that was it a couple days ago when I couldn't get it to run so I went and bought 2 brand new transistors I soldered one to the circuit and when I spun the wheel I realized i had my neon hooked up wrong so I just replaced the transistor again to be safe.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by min2oly View Post
    I'm curious what is leading you to believe it is in attraction mode, and what leads you to believe when you add the magnet to the back of the coil that this reverses to repulsion?
    I ask because that should not be...
    Well maybe it isn't in attraction mode. I guess it could be that the magnets just tend to stick to metal and the core is metal. So maybe it's not in attraction mode but I do know that it isn't repelling at all until I put the magnet on the back end of the coil. Then it repels like it's supposed to. When I first tried running this circuit I had some small neos glued to a little round VHS rotor I have. (I think it came from a VHS Tape Player anyway) It's almost like 2 hollow cylinders connected with a small brass shaft. It spins really smooth so I tried that first with the neos but it didn't work too well so I decided to just stick with the ceramics.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buz86 View Post
    I thought that was it a couple days ago when I couldn't get it to run so I went and bought 2 brand new transistors I soldered one to the circuit and when I spun the wheel I realized i had my neon hooked up wrong so I just replaced the transistor again to be safe.
    Ooops!! the first try with neon hooked wrongly wloud have fried the Transistior!! check it again with a DMM (Digital multimeter)
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ''Knowledge hails from the Past and its people...The Future is only its Arena of realization''

  8. #8
    when you place the magnet on the back end of the coil is the magnet side that is facing the coil the same polarity as those on the wheel as the face the opposite/front end of the coil?

    so is the magnet on the wheel facing north out toward the coil...
    and then the magnet you place on the "back end" of the coil facing north or south toward the coil?


    Quote Originally Posted by Buz86 View Post
    Well maybe it isn't in attraction mode. I guess it could be that the magnets just tend to stick to metal and the core is metal. So maybe it's not in attraction mode but I do know that it isn't repelling at all until I put the magnet on the back end of the coil. Then it repels like it's supposed to. When I first tried running this circuit I had some small neos glued to a little round VHS rotor I have. (I think it came from a VHS Tape Player anyway) It's almost like 2 hollow cylinders connected with a small brass shaft. It spins really smooth so I tried that first with the neos but it didn't work too well so I decided to just stick with the ceramics.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Ooops!! the first try with neon hooked wrongly wloud have fried the Transistior!! check it again with a DMM (Digital multimeter)
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Well I guess it isn't fried. I hooked it up this morning and it's working fine now. Here's my setup. I don't even have a neon on this circuit because it's on my other setup with the bike wheel at my shop. This setup in the pictures is a lot smaller so it's more convenient to experiment with at the house. This is the one I'm using currently. I just make sure I have the charging battery hooked up before I hook up the primary battery. I'm going to order a couple neons tonight as well as some other components. When I tune this thing, where do I hook my DMM leads to so I can check the current draw? I have the potentiometer but I just need to wire it in.

    I also want to experiment with a basic cap dump circuit so I can actually get a positive charge and use the batteries that I charge. Charging them with negative is basically pointless other than to run tests and get a feel for the way the machine works, correct? For now I want to just charge small lead acid batteries, so would I need to make a trifilar coil? I wind two windings together and then go over them with the 3rd winding, or do I wind all 3 together at the same time? I have about 1000 ft of 23 magnet wire. I also have about 600 ft of 18. Should I do it with the 23 first until I am familiar with the circuit? I will probably use the bigger coil spool for the trifilar, or will this small one work? Eventually I would like to charge my deep cycle 12v I use for my solar panel at my shop. I think a cell has gone bad. If I wind a 18 age trifilar on the 3" spool, will this do anything useful to that battery?

    What components and circuit is better to start out with for the cap dump? I know there's one that has the 555 timer, another with the FWBR and SCR, another with the mechanical commutator. Should I start with the FWBR and SCR first? Can anyone give me a component list with part numbers? I would like to learn how to tune my current device and once that is done I wish to experiment on the next level. I have all 3 books, but it looks pretty costly for all 8 circuits on that machine. Besides, if I'm going to have an 8 strand coil, I might as well go with the 18 instead of the 20 like it has in the book.

  10. #10

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