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Thread: Bedini 1984, 2017 style.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuis View Post
    Test Data on an 8 Filar 18ga Bedini Spec coil in series.
    This is stepping up the depth of the magnet by 1/4" increments.
    Starting at 1/4 - 1/2 - 2X1/4 - 3/4.
    Ill have the data on a double stack 1/2" shortly but the trend is positive.
    Smaller narrower magnets stacked NSNSNSNS will give greater depth of field and higher coil potential.
    There is a small increase in wheel diameter and perhaps speed but cross referancing the velocity to matching numbers still gives a higher voltage.
    Attachment 6790
    Attachment 6789
    Thanks for sharing all this it's very helpful to people who actually build :-)
    You keep mentioning spec coil but I've not come across one like yours before. If I guess here can you correct/update me?
    1 - 3"x3" spool with 1/2" core
    2 - 100 winds of twisted 18 awg x 8 strands

    so if all 8 in series - 800 turns?
    what is the ohm resistance on all the wire in series?
    If all 8 are in series what are you using as trigger?
    Thanks! - Patrick A.

    Ps - I tried to read the whole thread to find this and may have missed it, if I did would you be so kind to point me to the post?

  2. #32
    Hi Patrick,
    The coil is the Bedini 10coiler spec.
    -90mm bobbin.
    -85mm deep.
    -20mm core.
    -8 x 18ga
    -Series resistance about 10ohms, .9ohms per coil.

    This is not a triggered circuit, an external motor is driven at specific speeds and air gaps to compare coil and magnet combinations. At the moment the scope is hooked direct to the output and measures the specific's which I record. In future I will do different experiments to compare Capacitor charging times, coil power outputs and comparisons. If you would like to suggest some experiments I can also carry them out. The one experiment im keen on understanding is the Ceramic vs Neo debate. At the moment the neos are putting out way higher voltages but performance has not been tested fully.

    *There is a private album in my profile which you should be able to see, have a read, look at the pictures and watch the video link.
    Tried to share it with you but your inbox is full.
    Last edited by Deuis; 02-27-2018 at 01:54 AM.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  3. #33
    Here are the results for double and triple stacked 1/2'' magnets.
    The double stacked is once again a higher potential than the 1.5 stack.
    The kicker is the triple stacked makes no differance indicating the core is saturated.
    A larger or longer core would be needed for the triple stack to come into its own.
    Stacked.JPG
    Last edited by Deuis; 02-27-2018 at 01:41 AM.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  4. #34
    Test Data on an 8 Filar 18ga Bedini Spec coil in series.
    Neodymian magnets 1" x 1/2" x 1/2".
    As supplied in Ricks 10coiler kit.
    Ricks neo.JPG
    Last edited by Deuis; 02-27-2018 at 01:42 AM.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  5. #35
    Test Data on an 8 Filar 18ga Bedini Spec coil in series.
    Neodymian magnets 47 x 22 x 10mm North Out.
    large neos.JPG
    Last edited by Deuis; 02-27-2018 at 01:43 AM.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuis View Post
    Test Data on an 8 Filar 18ga Bedini Spec coil in series.
    Neodymian magnets 47 x 22 x 10mm North Out.
    John looking good with the Neo comparison. The longer and stronger Neo's appear to stretch out the field that reacts with the coil yielding a beefier spike.
    Two Thumbs up for your effort and data.
    Yaro

    "The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." -Neil Degrasse Tyson

  7. #37
    Thanks Yaro,

    I want to test Bedini's conclusion that the Neo's field is too tight and constricted to allow the magnet to flow past the coil once the field is reversed.
    Sure it gives the greatest potential output but I have yet to test how this interaction effects the efficieny of the motor.
    Should the neo "stick" rather than buck the field and glide past the core then voltage advantage may well be for nothing over the losses.
    Then again if i can tune the wheel to adequately handle neo's then the potential advantage can be put to full effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaro1776 View Post
    John looking good with the Neo comparison. The longer and stronger Neo's appear to stretch out the field that reacts with the coil yielding a beefier spike.
    Two Thumbs up for your effort and data.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuis View Post
    Thanks Yaro,

    I want to test Bedini's conclusion that the Neo's field is too tight and constricted to allow the magnet to flow past the coil once the field is reversed.
    Sure it gives the greatest potential output but I have yet to test how this interaction effects the efficieny of the motor.
    Should the neo "stick" rather than buck the field and glide past the core then voltage advantage may well be for nothing over the losses.
    Then again if i can tune the wheel to adequately handle neo's then the potential advantage can be put to full effect.
    Trying to get a full grasp on your experiment...

    So what you are doing is driving your wheel with conventional motor and from your charts the main items you are changing are:

    -Speed the magnet passes the coil

    -frequency

    -coil gap

    -Magnet type

    -watts consumed by conventional motor



    With this you are looking at two main things:



    -how much voltage the "Bedini Coil" is putting out.

    -Difference in magnet types VS ALL the above.



    You are not powering the Bedini coil or shorting it in any way nor do you have a capacitor across it right?



    I know there are many other discoveries here I just want to grasp the main thrust of this experiment and how it relates to neos vs ceramic on SSG.

    Thanks Patrick A.

  9. #39
    Hi Patrick,

    I hope your last question was answered adequately.

    This design is based on the 84' model of external motor with energiser.
    The E-bike wheel just happens to be a neat design that gives a big wheel as a bonus.
    The SG and the 84 are essentially the same except the motoring effect has been folded into the coils operation with some solid state gear.
    This is great but it really limits the ability to test individual operations. (A great energiser may not be able to motor properly and never gets off the ground)
    I am at the very start of this in terms of spitting out some raw data which I can return to later on.
    All components are variable but im picking off the variables one by one until I find good combinations that fit.
    For instance air gap is set to 3mm on everything.
    All speed referances are in 50rpm increments. (50 - 500rpms for now)
    The velocities are important to cross match with different diameter wheels.

    Ive tried 20+ combinations of magnets but the simple North out is the best, stacked NSNS for larger field.
    While the wheel was running today I put a neo and ceramic on the coil core, in and around the coil to see how the output would react.
    The voltage never went up, only down. Not sure if the story of putting magnets on the other end of the core is correct but I would have expected a higher voltage if it was.

    The wattage consumed by the conventional motor im actually using as a meter of sorts.
    The output tells me the aerodynamic losses, bearing losses etc etc. Through tuning I should be able to see this output drop/increase in real time.

    No im not powering anything as yet.
    Through this data I have settled on two variables.
    -18 magnet wheel.
    -North out double stacked 2" x 1" x 1/2" ceramic magnets and the large north out NEO's.

    I once again put 36 magnets on the wheel today, the magnets where definitely interfering with each other.
    The gauss meter was showing a south pole half way through the north face.
    This indicates to me that the core is probably fine at that frequency and the voltage drop was purely the magnet spacing.

    Now the number and magnets are concluded I can start some other variables.
    Im doing this with the coil and an ultrafast diode.
    Clip half the wave as a gennie coil.
    Hook a rheostat up and run a load from the coil at various resistances, note any differances in the prime mover.
    I may play with the air gap. (I can push this real hard with the 1000W motor if i want too)
    I can compare these settings with the charge time of a cap bank and determine where the most efficient combinations are.
    Im not limited by the poor motoring effect of the SG so i can really push in any direction i want.

    After this marathon is completed I can then decide which direction to go.
    Fold data into an SG, keep ole 84 or a hybrid.

    As for the NEO, ceramic debate this will show up easily in the above experments.
    I will be able to find the sweet spot of both and make fair comparisons on calibrated equipment.
    looking at the voltage output of the large neo versus the double stacked ceramic there isnt a huge gap <20%. (176 vs 206)


    Quote Originally Posted by min2oly View Post
    Trying to get a full grasp on your experiment...
    So what you are doing is driving your wheel with conventional motor and from your charts the main items you are changing are:
    -Speed the magnet passes the coil
    -frequency
    -coil gap
    -Magnet type
    -watts consumed by conventional motor
    With this you are looking at two main things:
    -how much voltage the "Bedini Coil" is putting out.
    -Difference in magnet types VS ALL the above.
    You are not powering the Bedini coil or shorting it in any way nor do you have a capacitor across it right?
    I know there are many other discoveries here I just want to grasp the main thrust of this experiment and how it relates to neos vs ceramic on SSG.

    Thanks Patrick A.
    Cant spend it when your dead.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuis View Post
    Hi Patrick,

    I hope your last question was answered adequately.

    This design is based on the 84' model of external motor with energiser.
    The E-bike wheel just happens to be a neat design that gives a big wheel as a bonus.
    The SG and the 84 are essentially the same except the motoring effect has been folded into the coils operation with some solid state gear.
    This is great but it really limits the ability to test individual operations. (A great energiser may not be able to motor properly and never gets off the ground)
    I am at the very start of this in terms of spitting out some raw data which I can return to later on.
    All components are variable but im picking off the variables one by one until I find good combinations that fit.
    For instance air gap is set to 3mm on everything.
    All speed referances are in 50rpm increments. (50 - 500rpms for now)
    The velocities are important to cross match with different diameter wheels.

    Ive tried 20+ combinations of magnets but the simple North out is the best, stacked NSNS for larger field.
    While the wheel was running today I put a neo and ceramic on the coil core, in and around the coil to see how the output would react.
    The voltage never went up, only down. Not sure if the story of putting magnets on the other end of the core is correct but I would have expected a higher voltage if it was.

    The wattage consumed by the conventional motor im actually using as a meter of sorts.
    The output tells me the aerodynamic losses, bearing losses etc etc. Through tuning I should be able to see this output drop/increase in real time.

    No im not powering anything as yet.
    Through this data I have settled on two variables.
    -18 magnet wheel.
    -North out double stacked 2" x 1" x 1/2" ceramic magnets and the large north out NEO's.

    I once again put 36 magnets on the wheel today, the magnets where definitely interfering with each other.
    The gauss meter was showing a south pole half way through the north face.
    This indicates to me that the core is probably fine at that frequency and the voltage drop was purely the magnet spacing.

    Now the number and magnets are concluded I can start some other variables.
    Im doing this with the coil and an ultrafast diode.
    Clip half the wave as a gennie coil.
    Hook a rheostat up and run a load from the coil at various resistances, note any differances in the prime mover.
    I may play with the air gap. (I can push this real hard with the 1000W motor if i want too)
    I can compare these settings with the charge time of a cap bank and determine where the most efficient combinations are.
    Im not limited by the poor motoring effect of the SG so i can really push in any direction i want.

    After this marathon is completed I can then decide which direction to go.
    Fold data into an SG, keep ole 84 or a hybrid.

    As for the NEO, ceramic debate this will show up easily in the above experments.
    I will be able to find the sweet spot of both and make fair comparisons on calibrated equipment.
    looking at the voltage output of the large neo versus the double stacked ceramic there isnt a huge gap <20%. (176 vs 206)
    I'm really struggling to find the connection how this data will help the decision making when it comes to running an energizer. I'll continue to keep posted I must be missing something. Does anyone else here follow?

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