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Thread: Bedini SG in Self run mode

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Bedini SG in Self run mode

    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to post a few notes on making a self runner. there are several things that will help you achieve this.

    this is a vanilla SG circuit, attraction mode, 8+1 coil, standard Teslagenx 8 transistor board with MJL 21194 on a Telsagenx 3 coil wood kit, 26 inch bike rim on sealed bearings, running 1 coil. with large cap dump comparator.


    1- a cap dump is necessary, Johns earlier machines all had cap dumps that were mechanically commutated. you can see this with some of the machines that had pulleys and mechanical brush and commutator setups. his best machine had 3 1 Farad caps in parallel. think about how low that impedance is!!

    2- a Capacitor on the front end in parallel with the primary, 60 to 80 volt cap minimum, as many uF as you can afford, big wires on the front end.

    3- BIG WIRE going to and from the batteries. even a small machine benefits. I have seen huge gains just going from 16 gauge to 6 gauge on a single coil SG. with some cap dump setups the difference is up to 40 amps on the pulse coming out of the Capacitor.

    4- many batteries on the back end in parallel, the lower the impedance the more charge you will get from the cap dump. 6 on the back will allow you to swap a battery front to back and have 5 more to do other things with. batteries should be matched sets.

    5- run at 24 volts on the front end, charge at 12 volts on the back end.... the differential helps the spike put even more juice into the cap faster, at lower amp draw.

    6- a "tiny tiny tiny" neo on the back of a single stack magnet rotor will help focus the magnetic stream farther down the coil, this may or may not help, give it a try, it has helped on one of my setups.

    7 - use 16 magnets on the rotor, this is a trick John told me about, it relates to the coral castle and Ed Leedskalnins work. not sure what difference it makes, but it seems to allow for good spacing for the imaginary south between the magnets.

    one more thing on cap dumps, when John was first designing the large cap dump, I was at the shop, and I asked him how many caps we could put on the comparator in parallel before we saw a difference in the dump frequency. we started with 4 15000 uf caps, and set the frequency to about once per second, we then added 2 more at a time until the dump frequency changed noticeably. It was not until we got 10 15000 uF caps on the comparator that the dump frequency changed. so from 60,000 uf to 150,000 uf to cause a change in the dump frequency. this is simply to show that the radian enters in huge amounts into the capacitor, and the bigger the cap the more gets harvested.


    let me know if any of you try this, most of you already have all of this in your arsenal.

    Tom C
    Last edited by Tom C; 02-01-2017 at 04:37 PM.


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  2. #2
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Tom,

    This is awesome! Thank you so much for putting this together.

    Lol, just when I "retired" all of my rotored SG's and went to solid state SGs. Now I'll have to glue some magnets back on a wheel

    John K.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to post a few notes on making a self runner. there are several things that will help you achieve this.

    this is a vanilla SG circuit, attraction mode, 8+1 coil, standard Teslagenx 8 transistor board with MJL 21194 on a Telsagenx 3 coil wood kit, 26 inch bike rim on sealed bearings, running 1 coil. with large cap dump comparator.


    1- a cap dump is necessary, Johns earlier machines all had cap dumps that were mechanically commutated. you can see this with some of the machines that had pulleys and mechanical brush and commutator setups. his best machine had 3 1 Farad caps in parallel. think about how low that impedance is!!

    2- a Capacitor on the front end in parallel with the primary, 60 to 80 volt cap minimum, as many uF as you can afford, big wires on the front end.

    3- BIG WIRE going to and from the batteries. even a small machine benefits. I have seen huge gains just going from 16 gauge to 6 gauge on a single coil SG. with some cap dump setups the difference is up to 40 amps on the pulse coming out of the Capacitor.

    4- many batteries on the back end in parallel, the lower the impedance the more charge you will get from the cap dump. 6 on the back will allow you to swap a battery front to back and have 5 more to do other things with. batteries should be matched sets.

    5- run at 24 volts on the front end, charge at 12 volts on the back end.... the differential helps the spike put even more juice into the cap faster, at lower amp draw.

    6- a "tiny tiny tiny" neo on the back of a single stack magnet rotor will help focus the magnetic stream farther down the coil, this may or may not help, give it a try, it has helped on one of my setups.

    7 - use 16 magnets on the rotor, this is a trick John told me about, it relates to the coral castle and Ed Leedskalnins work. not sure what difference it makes, but it seems to allow for good spacing for the imaginary south between the magnets.

    one more thing on cap dumps, when John was first designing the large cap dump, I was at the shop, and I asked him how many caps we could put on the comparator in parallel before we saw a difference in the dump frequency. we started with 4 15000 uf caps, and set the frequency to about once per second, we then added 2 more at a time until the dump frequency changed noticeably. It was not until we got 10 15000 uF caps on the comparator that the dump frequency changed. so from 60,000 uf to 150,000 uf to cause a change in the dump frequency. this is simply to show that the radian enters in huge amounts into the capacitor, and the bigger the cap the more gets harvested.


    let me know if any of you try this, most of you already have all of this in your arsenal.

    Tom C
    Beautiful pointers Tom...!!! especially the 16 magnet criterion which equals the 22 degree critical between magnets that jb showed us in his early dvds along with Dave clements.
    I still have hard time understanding the Scalar geometry of the Magnetic strusture of the rotor which JB never revealed to us..or at least to the group.. could you shed some light on that please..it will be greatly appriciated.
    Thank you,
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  4. #4
    All good advice, many thanks for sharing Tom!

    One thing I would say to the group at large is just to simply be a little careful when you play with large capacitance. Obviously you want to observe the same precautions you would with smaller caps but as you start getting into the big boys you really have to be aware of just how thirsty they are and that they will cause sparks when your connecting and disconnecting them. I'm not saying not to pursue using them but just be careful. When we charge the batteries we are also releasing hydrogen/oxygen gas in a wet cell. If you go to connect a big ass capacitor without per-loading it you will get one hell of a spark and god forbid you have hydrogen lurking about.

    Again Tom I am not trying to be negative about your post but I wouldn't want the uninitiated to get a nasty surprise.

    *EDIT*
    I wanted to jump back on and give a little advice towards what I was talking about here, hence the edit. One thing that I do to avoid sparks say on the primary side. Pre charge a bank to the same voltage as the battery you need to attach it too. By doing that you level their potential and only a tiny bit of current will want to flow so you will not get a big jolt. The best way to pre charge the caps is with mode one spikes. You can charge the front caps off the back and then attach them to the circuit or if you have a seperate little SS or something that is easier. Of course you would need a nice way to attach them, wouldn't use gator clips but maybe a heavy duty disconnect switch. Anyway the point is that large caps are very thirsty so my trick is to pre-charge them on a mode one output and then attach them wherever you need too.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 02-02-2017 at 07:07 PM.

  5. #5
    Ive acquired some finely balanced racing wheels to butcher.
    Now seems like as good a time as ever to have a crack.
    In reference to the 16 magnets on the wheel, is this good spacing due to the diameter of the wheels he used or is it irrelevant of the diameter of the wheel?

  6. #6
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faraday88 View Post
    Beautiful pointers Tom...!!! especially the 16 magnet criterion which equals the 22 degree critical between magnets that jb showed us in his early dvds along with Dave clements.
    I still have hard time understanding the Scalar geometry of the Magnetic strusture of the rotor which JB never revealed to us..or at least to the group.. could you shed some light on that please..it will be greatly appriciated.
    Thank you,
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    Why the 22 degree range?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  7. #7
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Why the 22 degree range?

    Hi Aaron,

    The firing angle (or the TDC) is 22.5 0r 23 degree at which the Transistor turns 'ON'. an evenly spaced Magnets consisting of 16 Magnets around the rotor would have 22.5 degree to affect firing at the passage of each magnet accross the coil.
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuis View Post
    Ive acquired some finely balanced racing wheels to butcher.
    Now seems like as good a time as ever to have a crack.
    In reference to the 16 magnets on the wheel, is this good spacing due to the diameter of the wheels he used or is it irrelevant of the diameter of the wheel?
    16 is one of those mystical numbers if you are into those things. The size of the bike rim just happens to allow that. You actually need a certain amount of spacing to allow the coil to cycle properly. About 3 to 5 magnet widths between magnets works well.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    hi everyone,

    in reference to the 16 magnets, John Said it refers to Leedskalnins work, and also has something to do with the Masonic Rites and how they interpret the Power of the sun and how it interacts with the earth. This was way back when john K and I visited him for the very first time.

    John asked me to look at this info

    http://www.code144.com/ be careful you could end up reading for hours


    Ed used a lot of masonic calculations including golden ratios in his castle .... beyond that I am just communicating some things I was told. as john passed I have been looking thru the notes from my communications with him. he often communicated in a stream of conciousness kind of way, you just had to take notes and listen

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  10. #10
    Tom, about the BIG WIRES IN and OUT, big enough to match the size off all power wires together? or even bigger?

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