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Thread: Zero Force Motor Replication Project

  1. #251
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    ZFM Neo Barbecue

    Hello All,

    After the 2017 Energy Conference and armed with the newest ZFM details from Peter L. I ordered four 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's and sent my spare rotor to the shop to have the appropriate counterbore machined for the 1" Neo's. Finished with my vacation, I proceeded to assemble the modified rotor with the Neo upgrade using a Loctite 332 structural adhesive (334 will work also). Just prior to applying the adhesive I placed one Neo on the rotor to check the fit. Bad move! Removing it was a chore and I may have damaged one Neo. I finally removed it with a wood clamp and proceeded to glue all the Neo's to the rotor.

    The assembly and gluing was straightforward. Clean all surfaces with acetone, apply the primer on the Neo's and apply the adhesive to the rotor. I used a plastic clamp to insert the Neo's - man these little Neo's are very powerful. They jumped out of the clamp to the rotor. Wearing gloves, I twisted the Neo's to seat them properly and set them outside to cure overnight. In the morning I placed the rotor assembly in a clear plastic salad container and let it cook in this mini solar oven for three hours until the adhesive was cured. Good to go!

    The rotor was then mounted on the shaft and assembled into the YZFM. All the connections were completed and the unit started at 12v - no problem - 3800 RPM - no problems. The voltage was increased to 24v at 0 degrees advance and slowly increased to about 8,200 RPM when there was a pop and the ZFM stalled. Close inspection revealed one Neo had blown apart. Upon disassembly it was seen that one Neo had self destructed and damaged the other three Neo's - trashed!

    Close Inspection of the faulty Neo revealed a failure of the coating and internal structure. Neo's are very brittle and apparently need to be handled very carefully as evidenced by this failed Neo. So what to do? Tried the brute force method of a chisel and a small sledge hammer - not very effective or very clean results.

    Took a step back and used the techie noodle. Loctite 332 breaks down well over 400 degrees F and the Neo's start losing their strength around 200 degrees F. Fired up my barbecue grille and cranked it up to over 600 degrees F and then placed the rotor in an aluminum pan onto the grille and let it cook for 3/4 hour. Can't describe adequately the combo of Loctite 332 and burger grease odor. After the cooking interval the pan was removed and allowed to cool slowly.

    Well sir, don't you know that the Neo's just dropped out of the rotor slicker than slush. The day was saved and the rotor can be used again. Ordered new Neo's and will try again end of the week or on Monday - hopefully with better results - may even use some fiberglass tape.

    Safety glasses and gloves,
    Yaro
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #252
    Another set of magnets closer to success.....

  3. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hammond View Post
    Hi Richard,



    I have a folder I downloaded called "Bedini -Cole Window Motor Lab Notes" that I think Dave Wing posted a couple of years ago. One file shows a "multi pole inside out Faraday motor" dated 8-1988 (Cole - Bedini). In another file (by Cole) dated 9-1989 it's called a "6x6 LCF motor" and looks to be the same as a 6 pole window motor. And in a file dated 8-1988 (Brown, Cole, Bedini) showing the details of the rotor, it's called an LCF DC motor (Linear Counter Field). I think these are all early terms to describe what we now call a "window motor".

    And there is yet another file showing a "Faraday type Ironless Motor" which looks to be what we now call the "Zero Force Motor" (ZFM).

    My take away is that the window motor and the ZFM are two different versions of an ironless Faraday motor and exhibit very similar operating characteristics.
    I would say the only difference between the ZFM and the LCF motor, is which "zero" it is running on.

  4. #254
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davy Oneness View Post
    I would say the only difference between the ZFM and the LCF motor, is which "zero" it is running on.
    Irrespective of all the different names they were all "Zero Vacuum Engines", an interesting and intriguing term, indeed.

  5. #255
    After looking over my notes and the new PDF again last night, I take back what I said about the ZFM and the LCF motor running on different "zeros" . I can see both arrangements I had in mind are labeled "zero force" now.

    Now I would say I think;

    Zero=Zero Vacuum=Zero Force= Bloch Wall.

    Linear Counter Field = Scalar Pole "zero".

    And both ZFM and LCFM are running off the "vacuum" interactions with the bloch wall "zero"

    I think the ZFM style coils are better than a window motor because it gives you more turns for less resistance.
    The LCF motor seems to be the design they(Bedini/Cole) wanted to patent and produce at the end of the 80's as the ideal ironless Faraday motor. Some of the notes I have, clearly look intended to be included in a patent.

  6. #256
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    YZFM Neo Upgrade - Again

    The iron rotor was cleaned up and sanded after the removal of the damaged Neo's. Received the new set of 1"Dx3/8"T Neo's and installed them with the same procedure (did use 3 wraps of tape this time). The shaft was inserted into the motor and the assembly completed - ready to run.

    The YZFM was cranked up slowly step by step to 11600 RPM without any signs of Neo integrity or adhesive issues. Great! Onto the performance tests.

    The testing involved all the major variables that influence the ZFM: voltage (12v, 24v and 36v) firing duration (45, 60 and 70 degrees) and advance (10 through 45 degrees). Overall the 1" Neo's improved the torque of the motor and reduced the maximum RPM a bit. The general performance characteristics are very similar to the prior 3/4"Dx3/8"T Neo configuration. In that maximum speed and torque for this build are developed with a firing duration of 60 to 70 degrees and an advance of 35 to 45 degrees at 36v.

    It appears that the larger Neo's definitely provide a greater torque, but with a price. The maximum RPM is reduced a bit and the amperage draw from the battery is increased at maximum duration (70 degrees and 45 degree advance).

    As an example - 36 v, 11430 RPM and 1.08A in comparison to the prior Neo config (3/4"Dx3/8"T) yielding 36v, 12200 RPM and 0.83A. Bear in mind that with some additional tuning the data may improve.

    Next on the agenda is raising the operating voltage to a maximum of 48v to assess how this impacts performance. The initial water pump test of the YZFM should take place next week assuming that Mr. Murphy is on vacation.

    Yaro

  7. #257
    Senior Member James McDonald's Avatar
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    Zero Force Motor Rotor & Shaft Magnet Polarity

    Hi All --

    This is a short note to show where I am after my magnet disaster when my Zero Force Motor
    was running at 9500 RPM when one magnet flipped up and hit the coil then crashed into another
    magnet causing a pile of magnet mess. I made a short video of the polarity of the rotor and shaft.
    The original rotor has N52 Neos 3/4 inch by 1/2. The new rotor has N52 Neos 2 inches by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. Check out this Rotor and Shaft Magnet Polarity Video.

    Very interesting results.

    Enjoy the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkMDPA-vDk

    -- James McDonald
    Last edited by James McDonald; 08-05-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  8. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by James McDonald View Post
    Hi All --

    This is a short note to show where I am after my magnet disaster when my Zero Force Motor
    was running at 9500 RPM when one magnet flipped up and hit the coil then crashed into another
    magnet causing a pile of magnet mess. I made a short video of the polarity of the rotor and shaft.
    The original rotor has N52 Neos 3/4 inch by 1/2. The new rotor has N52 Neos 2 inches by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. Check out this Rotor and Shaft Magnet Polarity Video.

    Very interesting results.

    Enjoy the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkMDPA-vDk

    -- James McDonald
    Interesting how the south overpowers the north, Eh... it would be pretty cool if we could use it to float the rotor.

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by James McDonald View Post
    Hi All --
    ...
    The original rotor has N52 Neos 3/4 inch by 1/2. The new rotor has N52 Neos 2 inches by 1 inch by 1/2 inch. Check out this Rotor and Shaft Magnet Polarity Video.

    ...
    Hi James,

    I think the new shaft will lose its South pole magnetism the very moment you fix the 4th magnet which was not present in the video. With all the 4 magnets in place, the iron rotor can collect and close the NSNS poles on themselves like it does for your 1st rotor assembly.
    So it is not about the super strong magnets that the shaft becomes polarised (if this is what you meant, maybe I misunderstood the video) but the fact that two like poles work against one unlike pole and S pole can leak out towards the shaft ends (i.e. the whole shaft is magnetized as South).

    Greetings,
    Gyula
    Last edited by Gyula; 08-05-2017 at 12:49 PM. Reason: text addition

  10. #260
    Senior Member James McDonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyula View Post
    Hi James,

    I think the new shaft will lose its South pole magnetism the very moment you fix the 4th magnet which was not present in the video. With all the 4 magnets in place, the iron rotor can collect and close the NSNS poles on themselves like it does for your 1st rotor assembly. So it is not about the super strong magnets that the shaft becomes polarised (if this is what you meant, maybe I misunderstood the video) but the fact that two like poles work against one unlike pole and S pole can leak out towards the shaft ends (i.e. the whole shaft is magnetized as South).

    Greetings,
    Gyula

    Hi Gyula --

    I did the experiment over again and I will make a new video. Once the 4th magnet was added to the rotor the shaft became divided into 4 magnet poles up to 1.5 inches up the shaft. So now if the shaft is rotated the magnet poles change from north to south pole. After the 1.5 inches up the shaft on either side of the rotor the magnet poles become undetectable by the tool. The other rotor with the smaller magnets did not magnetize the shaft up away from the rotor at all. This is showing a very strong magnetic field. I will show this in a new video I will make tomorrow.

    -- James
    Last edited by James McDonald; 08-05-2017 at 05:15 PM.

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