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Thread: Zero Force Motor Replication Project

  1. #201
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Pacific Northwest
    my 2 cents here.... I don't think a BIG neo is needed, we only need the fields to penetrate both sides of the coil, as long as it does this we can get the RPM we want without some of the forces Yaro is talking about. think about the colored cloverleaf Dave Wing posted. you can build that with 4 neo magnets and iron connecting then thru the center. I would not think that anything larger than a 1/2 by 1/2 by 2 inch long neo would be all we need. if you 3D printed in nylon or a carbon your strength would be there, and you could design the iron pole pieces to slide in to connect the fields before you slid in the magnets. you can make the magnets completely captive. perhaps a wider instead of thicker magnet is the answer.

    of course there are parameters we need to run in so there will be a best size ratio for the magnets... I also think perhaps speed can be achieved by having the timing advance as RPM changes. I don't know this for sure it is just a guess based on the SG work I have done

    Tom C
    Last edited by Tom C; 03-05-2017 at 10:02 PM.

    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  2. #202
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Heart of Vermont

    Spring Follies

    Hello to @all,

    Progress on the ZFM Proto has continued from the last video 7B. The timing configuration was modified to a friendlier arrangement using a balanced 60 degree firing arc duration with the Aluminum rotor. This arrangement was then tested and data gathered for baseline comparison purposes and then the new Iron rotor was installed in the motor.

    For this post I will not include all the data, but will state that the overall performance between the Aluminum and Iron rotors is not really very different. Both rotors produce approximately the same RPM and amperage draw. Perhaps the iron rotor may have a bit more torque, but that is anecdotal based on the two finger shaft test.

    There was the intention of doing a video on the impact of timing on the operation of the ZFM along with its impact on RPM and amperage draw - but that will wait until it is needed for demonstration. For these above tests the combination of firing angle and advance have been kept within the constraints suggested by Peter Lindemman way earlier in this thread and that is less than a total of 90 degrees or so for the duration plus advance. All well within the degree arc coverage of a coil segment.

    There are a number of take-aways here:
    1) The duration of the firing arc will increase or decrease the amperage draw from the primary battery.
    2) The advance has a major impact on the amperage draw and final RPM.
    3) For nearly every configuration of Timing the ZFM will continue to build speed from the initial RPM value by ~5% or more for several minutes or more.
    4) The greatest torque and RPM are achieved by progressively increasing the operating voltage - ie. 12v, 24v, and 36v.
    5) The motor coils will normally warm up a bit over room temperature - usually by a maximum of ~5F.
    6) The Bipolar switch will certainly heat up quite a bit, but that is dependent on the firing arc duration and advance.

    Additional experimentation has demonstrated that the time required to energize and de-energize the existing coils is a critical factor in the ZFM's high speed operational modes and that the harmonics produced by the firing rate influence the value of the RPM and amperage draw.

    Another interesting observation is that this experimentation also appears to suggest the formation of the clover leaf pattern of the magnetic fields surrounding the coils as depicted in JB's Lab sketch, however further work on this has been put aside until later this summer. The current effort is to attach a small pump to the ZFM and physically pump water while collecting the relevant performance data - where the rubber meets the road.

    The above post may seem overly generalized, but it does contain many interesting nuggets for further thought and exploration.

    Happy Spring,
    Last edited by Yaro1776; 03-22-2017 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Clarify firing arc suggestion

  3. #203
    Senior Member James McDonald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Odenton, Maryland

    James's Zero Force Motor Build

    This post is to show my build of the Zero Force Motor. I have been working on this since December 2016. The first
    part that was made was the Iron Rotor and the 1/2 inch thick shaft at 12 inches long. The rotor and shaft were made
    out of DoD quality iron. The data sheet on the Iron claimed it to be 99.7% pure. The coil forms were cut from a 4
    inch PVC pipe connector. The coil form center was cut to be 1 inch thick. The magnet wire size used was 18 gauge. The
    length of magnet wire on each half of the toriod shaped coil is 450 feet. Giving me a total DC resistance of 6.0 ohms.
    The bearings used were Baldor Dodge pillow block type part number 129150 or P2B-GT-008. Since these bearing have
    dust covers on them you will have to remove the metal covers off the bearings and clean out the white grease inside.
    I called the Baldor Dodge people and found out I should have been sold part number 139553. These are easier to take
    apart due to they have a rubber insert under the dust cover and are rated for 14,500 RPM operating. The bearings I
    have are rated at 12,500 RPM. The firing timing wheel has Neo Magnets and Reed Switches. The Neo magnets are
    mounted at 0 degrees and 180 degrees. The Reed switches are mounted at 0 degrees and 90 degrees. The driving
    circuit is the standard Bedini-Cole circuit using Audio Power Transistors. The initial run data is listed below.

    Powering Voltage - Measured Current - Measured RPM (Speed)

    12 volts -------------- 0.70 amps ---------- 2824

    24 volts -------------- 0.69 amps ---------- 5859

    36 volts -------------- 0.78 amps ---------- 6981

    Enjoy the video

    -- James McDonald

  4. #204

    Thanks for this. While I started the thread, I am taking a six month/year hiatus to focus more heavily on practical matters. It is wonderful to see this initiative generating so much excellent work and research. No doubt the ZFM is an interesting and confusing machine, which is sometimes the best type. While this doesn't relate to the ZFM I want to throw one more idea out at this board as I just don't have time for it now. I was thinking about Mu-metal and how its permeability is 10-100 times that of steel and thinking people have home brewed other cores, can Mu-metal be home brewed? Looking at the melting points involved I was first thinking well maybe with a water torch when it also occurred to me there are "powdered cores". From a two minute glance the materials involved in Mu-metal are 1) readily available as powders 2) not too expensive 3) not too toxic. I don't see why one couldn't just mix it all together and throw it in a PVC pipe, maybe melt it in some bees wax if you wanted it to keep its shape. Haven't done this yet and simply don't have time at the moment, but something to think about, and it is high on my list of experiments when I get a chance to do a bit more in this area. BTW James, you are just down the street from me in Bethesda, if you ever want to grab a cup of coffee or tea let me know.


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