Two Capacitor Paradox

**Notsure** · 06-17-2016, 06:28 AM

Okay, why don't caps equalize like batteries do? A cap completely isolates the positive and negative, a battery doesn't. An electrolytic cap is closer to a battery that way. So the more the two potentials are separated the more "condensing" takes place. The separate charges are just conducting, and it's not a perfect conductor, there is no force behind it. Nothing to "com-pair" it to. Maybe it would work with super conductors at absolute zero or something, but there are always two potentials working as one somewhere. It might be the dielectric is stealing some of the charge but I doubt it because it's so thin, but since too much charge will blow a hole in it, it probably works the other way too. What would a 3 plate cap do? + - +

**ZPDM** · 06-18-2016, 12:19 AM

You bring up a lot of points NS, what actually is the "capacitance" of a battery? I don't know I would guess pretty big. Is Maxwell's silver hammer a yo yo trick applied to a battery or some strange manifestation of gyroscopic precession? Who knows?

Unless anyone really wants to continue I'll wrap this thread up. Nothing OU seen here. It can be demonstrated with a multimeter and five dollars of batteries and capacitors that discharging a capacitor into another obeys the theory of conservation of charge not the theory of conservation of energy. It has some utility, for instance one can now predict given two caps of known capacitance and known starting voltages of each what the idealized energy transfer efficiency will be between the two. So you can get an idealized 99.9% efficient transfer with a variety of set-ups if you plug in the parameters. 99.9 is of course less than 100.1.

**Faraday88** · 06-18-2016, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by ZPDM

You bring up a lot of points NS, what actually is the "capacitance" of a battery? I don't know I would guess pretty big. Is Maxwell's silver hammer a yo yo trick applied to a battery or some strange manifestation of gyroscopic precession? Who knows?

Unless anyone really wants to continue I'll wrap this thread up. Nothing OU seen here. It can be demonstrated with a multimeter and five dollars of batteries and capacitors that discharging a capacitor into another obeys the theory of conservation of charge not the theory of conservation of energy. It has some utility, for instance one can now predict given two caps of known capacitance and known starting voltages of each what the idealized energy transfer efficiency will be between the two. So you can get an idealized 99.9% efficient transfer with a variety of set-ups if you plug in the parameters. 99.9 is of course less than 100.1.

Guys sorry to chime in here again but question posse here are just irresistible ...a Battery has an Inverted Dielectric and plate (Capacitor plate)material,so with that in view, one need to consider the Inductance of a Battery rather than its Capacitance.. but that poses Engineering difficulties since you Symmetrically gauge that parameter(Current to Current in a battery) so you do the next best thing by considering its Impedance with Inverted Magnitude (milli ohms) John Bedini has been telling us this ever since his class/teachings on the Battery impedance lowering trick as a guiding pointer and that is where the Over unity aspect of it is seen..be it on continuous basis or in Pulsed format...for Workable torque application in an external loads. Gray motor is nothing more than this..so here is all the answer you are looking for.. unfortunately for me, some get offended with my views and slander me with all suitable insults, but perhaps that is okay to be so..after all truth prevails despite of harsh beatings..

but some day the light glows in every body's mind and least remember me for being dead right all along !!!

**Notsure** · 06-19-2016, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Faraday88

Guys sorry to chime in here again but question posse here are just irresistible ...a Battery has an Inverted Dielectric and plate (Capacitor plate)material,so with that in view, one need to consider the Inductance of a Battery rather than its Capacitance.. but that poses Engineering difficulties since you Symmetrically gauge that parameter(Current to Current in a battery) so you do the next best thing by considering its Impedance with Inverted Magnitude (milli ohms) John Bedini has been telling us this ever since his class/teachings on the Battery impedance lowering trick as a guiding pointer and that is where the Over unity aspect of it is seen..be it on continuous basis or in Pulsed format...for Workable torque application in an external loads. Gray motor is nothing more than this..so here is all the answer you are looking for.. unfortunately for me, some get offended with my views and slander me with all suitable insults, but perhaps that is okay to be so..after all truth prevails despite of harsh beatings..

but some day the light glows in every body's mind and least remember me for being dead right all along !!!

"workable torque" I like that. That's what I'm working on now. A large capacitor can take time to charge up similar to a battery but is still faster. Charge density becomes a time factor, you can head towards a tank circuit or more like battery charging. By changing my rotor to only two magnets and making it large enough to be a flywheel I believe I can get just as much torque, if not more, as I do matching the number of magnets to the number of coils. So by using a separate power source for each coil pair, I can take advantage of the time factor. Establish a equilibrium of charge and discharge among all, there may be ou in the discharge but I want to use it for an equilibrium. Electrically, it would be the same as two energizers with opposite timings, but I have five.

**Faraday88** · 06-19-2016, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Notsure

"workable torque" I like that. That's what I'm working on now. A large capacitor can take time to charge up similar to a battery but is still faster. Charge density becomes a time factor, you can head towards a tank circuit or more like battery charging. By changing my rotor to only two magnets and making it large enough to be a flywheel I believe I can get just as much torque, if not more, as I do matching the number of magnets to the number of coils. So by using a separate power source for each coil pair, I can take advantage of the time factor. Establish a equilibrium of charge and discharge among all, there may be ou in the discharge but I want to use it for an equilibrium. Electrically, it would be the same as two energizers with opposite timings, but I have five.

Hi Notsure,

Go ahead and show us what exactly you have in your mind...more often than not a Demonstration is worth a million words!! as for me i'm developing the skill to interpret this Wonderful Science and Tom Bearden's writings are indispensable guiding foundation for the same!! but that does not limit me to be a Theoretical Philosopher..since Tesla himself said that an Experiment can defy an Theory!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

**Notsure** · 06-20-2016, 05:49 AM

motorotor.jpg Technically it's 20 coils. My goofy conical coils.

**Faraday88** · 06-20-2016, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Notsure

motorotor.jpg Technically it's 20 coils. My goofy conical coils.

Hi Notsure,

Thanks for that picture you posted...you seem to be using one of the Monopole configuration..why not put the other two..? you shall see the differences

the combined out put of these coils are additive and will charge a battery a lot better and faster..the challenge is: figure out the other two geometries of the coils!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

**Notsure** · 06-21-2016, 05:03 AM

untitled.jpg There are 3 poles on the coil. Just facing a single pole of a magnet towards a coil doesn't mean only that pole is the only one involved. The magnetic potential, and the electric potential work the same way. Takes two for there to be motion, one high, one low. I can have attraction on the ends and repulsion in the middle or attraction in the middle and repulsion on the ends. It doesn't just push the magnet away or pull it in, it's more angular I guess you could say. It's only confusing if you haven't tried it. Unbalance costs, but balance is free.