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Thread: SG 3 Battery 24 volt Config

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    SG 3 Battery 24 volt Config

    This thread is dedicated to experimenting with the SG 3 battery 24 volt configuration as presented by Dr. Peter Lindemann in diagram from another ESF thread. The attached diagram depicts the SG wiring configuration for this modification. The results as depicted are preliminary and are run on a plain-Jane SG system that is not tweaked for high performance.

    3BS4SG.jpg

    This configuration was assembled and then tested with two different wheel assemblies (high and low friction) with different free spin times. The run data can be viewed in the attached .pdf file. This data is compared to prior runs that were completed with the standard SG 12 volt battery configuration at similar gaps and trigger resistances.

    Review of the run data immediately demonstrates that the SG Mod PL (3 battery 24 volt) configuration has very different operational characteristics, in that the amperage data is significantly lower for both Primary and Charge amp values for both wheel assemblies. At first glance the Load Discharge watt hrs and Charge watt hrs appear to yield a COP of about 2.0, however this is deceiving in that the Charge battery is also receiving input from the Primary batteries. In reality the COP for this configuration should be based on the Primary power and not the Charge power – so the value here is 0.59 versus about 0.44 for the SG standard.

    The performance of this configuration is significantly better that the standard SG setup and improves the charging rate to the Charge battery. This can be observed by noting the higher Charge battery voltage values during operation for the given gap and wheel configuration. Looking at tests 1 and 2 it is very apparent that for a given Primary power input the resultant Discharge power is approximately improved by about 45 percent.

    More testing is required to confirm the above; however the preliminary tests appear to be very promising for further research of the Peter Lindemann 3 battery configuration.

    More testing of this type is expected to be completed over the next week or so with the results posted upon completion. Please note that any errors in calculation or assumptions are strictly attributable to the author of this thread.

    As always, questions and comments relevant to this thread are always welcome.

    Thank you Dr. Peter for your excellent input!
    Yaro
    SG 3Bat1.pdf
    Last edited by Yaro1776; 04-23-2016 at 05:00 AM. Reason: Typo on D to C improvement percentage

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Updated SG B3 data

    Added two additional runs of the SG 3Bat configuration to evaluate and define the nature of its performance. Again the test runs were completed with a high and low friction wheel. Updated PDF data attached for results reference.

    The results of the new charge and load tests were very consistent with the prior runs in that the performance ratios Discharge watt hrs to Primary watt hrs were all nearly identical even though the charge rates and discharge times were different. Both wheels yielded nearly the same ratio results at various coil to wheel gaps and RPM's.

    As a cross check on the Primary amp data a load test was performed on the Primary batteries with a similar load as the Primary amp read. This test showed that the Primary amp reads and power calcs were very close to the load test values. So the COP for the tested configuration is a relatively constant 0.59, whereas the standard configuration varies from 0.42 to 0.46.

    Interesting to note the following:
    1) For the SG 3Bat the Primary amp reads varied some with the configuration, but 3 out of 4 charge amp values were nearly identical.
    2) If a load was added to the Charge battery (1 amp) the wheel speed would increase by 4 to 5 RPM.
    3) The wheel speed would slowly decrease over the course of the test - more than 10 RPM.
    4) In test 3 the initial charge voltage climbed to a high value of 13.95 volts then decreased steadily to 13.75 volts after 25 minutes and then proceeded to climb for 20 minutes to a high of 13.89 volts at the test stop point. This charge spike was also noted on the test 1 run, but the voltage spike was much smaller - on the order of 0.05 volts. The other tests did not show this spike or else it was not noticed.
    5) Did not note any change in performance using 3 standard diodes in parallel versus a high speed diode.

    Overall the SG 3B 24 volt configuration certainly gives a major kick to the SG charging process and overall power performance. It would be interesting to pursue an improvement in the actual charge amperage from the SG. This charge is a freebie in this configuration and helps kick up overall COP. Certainly room for improvement here.

    Still a bit more time available before the outside projects gain priority - see what happens,

    Yaro

    SSG 3Bat2 Test Data.pdf

  3. #3
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Good stuff Yaro. Thanks for the report

    John K.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    John K.,

    Thanks for your attention and encouragement - just doing this for the pleasure of it. Never know when you hit an interesting anomaly.

    Yaro

  5. #5
    Very impressive fast charging. Using 4 small snow machine batteries, they are all the same. I'm doing it Tesla switch style. Series discharge, parallel charge, back and forth. There is way less slow down in the rotor when topping off and that makes all the difference. For an acid test, I used the 2 small batteries to charge a large one that was all the way down to 9V, it floated at 12.5V for awhile, shut it down when the 2 batteries got to 23v, it dropped to 11.78V. Not to shabby. I used a conventional 10A charger to finish it and it took hours. Still tweaking it. It's awesome. Many thanks.

  6. #6
    Current switching, cool, I mean, HOT. If you don't know what your doing you can destroy batteries and flame transistors. I did all that screwing around with the circuit and using different machines. I was lucky the first time I tried it that I was using the big one with the zero force motor style coil. It's perfect for this circuit. Transistor gets pretty hot but not a problem.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    To Be or Not to Be

    Not Sure,

    It is apparent that this thread has your attention and interest. Judging by your replies you have some ideas on this particular 3 battery configuration. I suggest that you focus your intelligence on replying in a logical and informative manner with supporting information and data. Your current shotgun bursts of ideas, though of interest to some, do you a disservice by presenting you as a casual reader.

    The purpose of this thread is to explore the 24 volt 3 battery SSG configuration and to present data to other experimenters that can be used for further refinements and exploration. Admittedly, it takes effort and mental focus along with time to make this happen. If you are serious about experimenting with the SSG 3 Battery config then present your findings with good data and supporting information so that it is of use to others. However, if you are just a casual lurker, then please temper your your posts to the relevant subject matter or just go away.

    Yaro

  8. #8
    What's so complicated about the circuit? It's simple. Some people can make mowing the lawn sound like an insurmountable task. Showing data about your machine is irrelevant to someone else's machine that isn't identical to it. That was my point. The method of pointing the end of a coil toward a pole of a magnet works great for the spike but common basic knowledge of current switching is that there is drag. Thereby reducing the efficiency. Using a larger machine with comical coils wound in the same direction from the center out provides like poles on the ends and a weaker opposite pole in the center. However when introduced to the spinning rotor becomes a simulated monopole with a running magnetic current. Like letting a stick float downstream with the current instead of holding it still. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
    All that aside, using a zero force motor doesn't produce a very large spike but has good torque with low current draw. This is better for that circuit in my opinion. More torque, less drag, less heat. Your results may vary.
    16 inch rotor2.jpg
    conical.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Not Sure,

    Your reply, though humorous, is still off topic with respect to the focus of this thread.

    A better and positive reaction would be to start your own thread demonstrating your abilities and proving your hypotheses with an actual machine that improves upon the standard SG configuration along with supporting numerical data. This would be useful to all the experimenters out there and show that, indeed, you are serious about your ideas and experimentation.

    Less talk and more real world action.

    Done with my replies to you on this thread.
    Yaro

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