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Thread: Pastor Gordon's First try at Bedini Energizer

  1. #1

    Post Pastor Gordon's First try at Bedini Energizer

    Hi, this is my first post on this forum... My name is Joshua Gordon, and yes, I'm a pastor... Now that that is out of the way on to the post

    I've been posting in another forum for a while, but not getting much response, so I'm moving over here because you guys seem to be on top of responding to peoples posts, giving good, sound instruction, and paying attention to detail to what other people are doing in their builds... Plus John seems to be using this forum regularly and well, its his design

    Before someone goes and tells me to buy the books, let me start by saying that I have all 3 of them already, and have read them. I'm not saying that I understand the content of all of them, but I have read them and am familiar with the concepts that are in them...

    My first attempt at this build I used neodymium magnets (Just because I had some) But I have since changed it over to ceramic magnets. It is NOT a bicycle wheel, but rather a backside lawn mower pulley. I cleaned the bearings out thoroughly and then lightly lubed them with 3-in-1 oil. It is mounted to a wood frame with stainless steel bolt and washers and nut.

    The coil is made from a simple plastic wire spool, using 20 and 24 gauge magnet wire, but I didn't count the "turns" as I rolled, I just used ALL of the wire I ordered, which was only 158 feet... I'm guessing that is why I am not getting very much current or voltage even when I spin it up with 12 volts... The core is made up of many many pieces of simple bailing wire (The kind used for tying re-bar together before pouring concrete). The whole coil itself is about 3 inches long and about 2.5 inches wide. Remember that this wheel is only about an inch wide with round ceramic magnets that just fit into the grove, double stacked, so they come out to the rim of the wheel. The magnets pass over the core of the coil perfectly, they are the same size... the magnets do NOT pass over the complete width of the coil, maybe this is why I'm not getting much power out of it??? PLEASE TELL ME

    I have made the mistake now (several times) of running the unit without a charging battery hooked up. It has taken a lot of research for me to find out that is why I keep blowing transistors! I'm using a 2n3055 Transistor, a single 1n4007 and 1n4001 diode along with a 5k linear pot that has a 100 Ohm resistor inline with it. The hookup wire I'm using is a solid core telephone wire (May not be thick enough???) I actually used the design I found on Daftmans website to build the circuit, because of the easy looking layout.

    For now, I have the circuit hooked through a breadboard just to make it easier to place everything since my wood is so thick... And I'm using simple PCB mount terminals hook batteries into. I have one of the PCB terminals set for the charge output, and one for the input battery. I also included a jack to plug in a power source (Wall-Wart) It works... mostly... It just isn't producing the power I had hoped for. But as I stated earlier, I think its due to the coil wires not being long enough. If I'm wrong PLEASE TELL ME!!!

    I have a little more than 600 feet of 26 and 30 gauge wire on order to build another coil... but after reading I'm afraid that they may be too thin... What do you guys think with a little setup like this? I also have some wire wound 1k pots on order... It seams that the 5k linear pots burn up too easily, plus they don't adjust very well for tuning.

    I also want to add a capacitor to the unit... but I cant figure out how to get it to discharge into the battery. I keep overcharging them and they just sit there, holding the charge instead of dumping to the battery. I cant seem to find a simple designed circuit to do this. I've seen Johns design, but its hard for my little brain to wrap around since its made for 7 transistors instead of just 1. Also I still cant figure out how to hook up the analog meters correctly...

    Any and ALL help is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks for reading my extra long post! lol... like I said, Im transfering what Ive done from a different forum to this one... And I started it all with one big post!

    Here are the pictures of my unit... In the building stage, and the current stage...

    Current Combined.jpg

    Original Build.jpg
    “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.”

  2. #2
    Hi Pastor Gordon! I'm no expert. Now that I got that out of the way I will make some observations and suggestions. The first thing I would say is the more things you change from what is called for the worse it will perform. What batteries are you charging? A single coil is really for garden tractor size batteries and smaller. I charge bigger ones than that with mine BUT it will be really slow. Don't bother charging those Alcaline AA batts. They WILL leak almost every time (even though they will charge). Charge flooded lead acid type. Yes it will charge lots of different kinds of batteries but it was designed for flooded type. Ditch the small wheel and get a bike wheel of some bigger size. Go to harbor freight and get some magnets the size they call for in the book OR get them from Teslagenx. Teslagenx has exact parts. The wire in your core will retain magnetism and hurt performance. Use welding wire as close to what the book calls for as you can get. You CAN use alot of things BUT it costs you results. Current and voltage meters should only be connected temporarily to the system (regular digital test meters also) they affect performance. Your coils should be long enough since they are over 130ft. (standard). With what you have right now at least you can see that it does charge some and you can play with the resistance. The small wheels just don't work good in my opinion. The trouble of changing to a bike wheel with the bigger ceramics will be worth the effort. Have fun with it. You will build a bunch more of them as you learn and want to change to a more standard build. Have fun with it , that is the main thing. You can get serious later. Many 2n3055 transistors died to bring you this information...

    al

  3. #3
    It is a picture from a few years ago. Two things running here. My favorite fan conversion charging AA pack that eventually LEAKED ALL OVER EVERYTHING. They will leak especially after a couple days have passed. They like the power but it pops them. I charged them lightly as possible and they don't get even the slightest bit warm but still they leak. The bike wheel in the back is a single circuit 26" wheel and works pretty well. I eventually brought that car battery back from only topping out a 8 volts(on a standard charger) to sitting (resting) at almost 13 volts and would start a car again.
    Old_builds.jpg

  4. #4
    Senior Member James McDonald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Odenton, Maryland
    Posts
    130
    Hi Pastor Gordon --

    First thing I would like to say is the Daftman's circuit diagram is not similar to the John Bedini SSG circuit
    diagram. The neon bulb is not in the correct place to protect the transistor from an over voltage condition.

    http://www.daftman.000a.biz/images/gallery_big1.jpg

    http://rpmgt.org/JoinBediniList.htm <-- Use this circuit diagram.


    Most of the pots that are cheap and easy to get can only handle 2 watts maximum power input. To
    protect the pot you will need to buy a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor to put in series with the pot to keep it from
    burning up. Use a 1K pot instead of the 5K pot.

    Like Allen said on connecting up a current meter to the SSG circuit is they just degrade the performance
    of the SSG. The voltage meters are okay because they only parallel the batteries but the current meter
    you should disconnect till you get the SSG working correctly.

    I believe in the SSG book tells you to "Never" run the SSG without a load or a charge battery.
    Make sure you first connect the load or charge battery negative terminal to the positive terminal of the
    primary battery. Then hook up the load or charge battery negative first to the SSG circuit. Next hook the
    load or charge battery positive terminal to the SSG circuit. Last hook up the primary or run battery negative
    terminal to the SSG circuit. Then give the wheel a spin to start.

    The core in your coil even though it may work it will cause drag on the wheel due to "eddy"
    currents being produced in your core. The core in the SSG is R60 welding rods which have a percentage
    of copper in them.

    You really should use two lead acid type batteries to get the SSG circuit up and running. Wall Wort
    power supplies that plug to the grid may cause a ground loop problem in the circuit thus causing things
    to burn up.

    Lets worry about getting the SSG circuit working properly before you start thinking about adding a
    capacitor dump circuit to you SSG circuit. If your having trouble thinking about adding more transistor circuits
    to your SSG setup. Just think of it this way its like 7 separate circuits like the one you just made all connected
    to a common power source.

    Lastly if you want to build an SG Machine the TeslaGenX people have most all the parts you would
    need to order to build the SG machine. Their web site is listed below.

    http://www.teslagenx.com


    Have fun learning electronics and building your SSG machine.

    -- James

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen R. View Post
    Hi Pastor Gordon! I'm no expert. Now that I got that out of the way I will make some observations and suggestions. The first thing I would say is the more things you change from what is called for the worse it will perform. What batteries are you charging? A single coil is really for garden tractor size batteries and smaller. I charge bigger ones than that with mine BUT it will be really slow. Don't bother charging those Alcaline AA batts. They WILL leak almost every time (even though they will charge). Charge flooded lead acid type. Yes it will charge lots of different kinds of batteries but it was designed for flooded type. Ditch the small wheel and get a bike wheel of some bigger size. Go to harbor freight and get some magnets the size they call for in the book OR get them from Teslagenx. Teslagenx has exact parts. The wire in your core will retain magnetism and hurt performance. Use welding wire as close to what the book calls for as you can get. You CAN use alot of things BUT it costs you results. Current and voltage meters should only be connected temporarily to the system (regular digital test meters also) they affect performance. Your coils should be long enough since they are over 130ft. (standard). With what you have right now at least you can see that it does charge some and you can play with the resistance. The small wheels just don't work good in my opinion. The trouble of changing to a bike wheel with the bigger ceramics will be worth the effort. Have fun with it. You will build a bunch more of them as you learn and want to change to a more standard build. Have fun with it , that is the main thing. You can get serious later. Many 2n3055 transistors died to bring you this information...

    al
    Thank you for the input... The batteries I've been using are simple AA NiMh batteries. Using 4 of them for primary, and 4 more for secondary, although the specs say 1.2v each, when they are fully charged and connected they produce a little more than 5 volts (per bank).

    At the moment, space is an issue... As you can see in my pictures, I'm working in my bedroom... which my wife really doesn't like but puts up with for the moment. Under our current living conditions I really don't have the space to build anything on the scale of a bicycle wheel, although I DO want to make one. For now, all I can do is small experiments and try to make the best of it.

    Do you think just changing out the core material and going with larger ceramic magnets would make a big difference with my current setup?
    “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.”

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by James McDonald View Post
    Hi Pastor Gordon --

    First thing I would like to say is the Daftman's circuit diagram is not similar to the John Bedini SSG circuit
    diagram. The neon bulb is not in the correct place to protect the transistor from an over voltage condition.

    http://www.daftman.000a.biz/images/gallery_big1.jpg

    http://rpmgt.org/JoinBediniList.htm <-- Use this circuit diagram.


    Most of the pots that are cheap and easy to get can only handle 2 watts maximum power input. To
    protect the pot you will need to buy a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor to put in series with the pot to keep it from
    burning up. Use a 1K pot instead of the 5K pot.

    Like Allen said on connecting up a current meter to the SSG circuit is they just degrade the performance
    of the SSG. The voltage meters are okay because they only parallel the batteries but the current meter
    you should disconnect till you get the SSG working correctly.

    I believe in the SSG book tells you to "Never" run the SSG without a load or a charge battery.
    Make sure you first connect the load or charge battery negative terminal to the positive terminal of the
    primary battery. Then hook up the load or charge battery negative first to the SSG circuit. Next hook the
    load or charge battery positive terminal to the SSG circuit. Last hook up the primary or run battery negative
    terminal to the SSG circuit. Then give the wheel a spin to start.

    The core in your coil even though it may work it will cause drag on the wheel due to "eddy"
    currents being produced in your core. The core in the SSG is R60 welding rods which have a percentage
    of copper in them.

    You really should use two lead acid type batteries to get the SSG circuit up and running. Wall Wort
    power supplies that plug to the grid may cause a ground loop problem in the circuit thus causing things
    to burn up.

    Lets worry about getting the SSG circuit working properly before you start thinking about adding a
    capacitor dump circuit to you SSG circuit. If your having trouble thinking about adding more transistor circuits
    to your SSG setup. Just think of it this way its like 7 separate circuits like the one you just made all connected
    to a common power source.

    Lastly if you want to build an SG Machine the TeslaGenX people have most all the parts you would
    need to order to build the SG machine. Their web site is listed below.

    http://www.teslagenx.com


    Have fun learning electronics and building your SSG machine.

    -- James

    Thank you James, Looks like I will be buying some welding rods pretty soon. I will also be remaking the circuit according to the diagram you linked too instead of Daftmans circuit... I'm also looking into getting some small, lead acid batteries such as THIS. Living on a fixed income means I have to plan my hobbies carefully, month to month. Plus, these batteries are small enough to fit with my current setup (Also keeping my wife at bay lol) I put in the power supply connection just for testing, but I have already learned that it burns them up pretty quick lol. I'm going to be removing that power jack!!!

    Should my magnets be long enough to pass over the entire width of the coil? or is just being the same size as the core large enough?
    My wire came in today... 600 feet of 26 gauge wire and 780 feet of 30 gauge wire... Is this wire too small for another coil? After reading some on this site I'm beginning to wonder... I hope I didn't waist my money on it.

    I really appreciate the input guys... you BOTH have already helped me more in 1 day than a week of posting in the other forum I was in! THANK YOU!!!
    “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.”

  7. #7
    Senior Member Branch Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    614
    Heya Pastor and welcome. Just checked out the link to the batteries you are planning on purchasing. I wouldn't recommend buying those.

    Standard flooded lead acid is what you want, and at least a lawn/tractor battery in capacity. You want to be able to pop the tops off and check the electrolyte levels. It's also hard to do effective COP testing on such a small battery.

    Avoid any AGM type batteries for starting out.

    These would be great to start with if you can afford: http://www.atbatt.com/trojan-scs150-...ing-series.asp

    Quote Originally Posted by Pastor Gordon View Post
    Thank you James, Looks like I will be buying some welding rods pretty soon. I will also be remaking the circuit according to the diagram you linked too instead of Daftmans circuit... I'm also looking into getting some small, lead acid batteries such as THIS. Living on a fixed income means I have to plan my hobbies carefully, month to month. Plus, these batteries are small enough to fit with my current setup (Also keeping my wife at bay lol) I put in the power supply connection just for testing, but I have already learned that it burns them up pretty quick lol. I'm going to be removing that power jack!!!

    Should my magnets be long enough to pass over the entire width of the coil? or is just being the same size as the core large enough?
    My wire came in today... 600 feet of 26 gauge wire and 780 feet of 30 gauge wire... Is this wire too small for another coil? After reading some on this site I'm beginning to wonder... I hope I didn't waist my money on it.

    I really appreciate the input guys... you BOTH have already helped me more in 1 day than a week of posting in the other forum I was in! THANK YOU!!!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Branch Gordon View Post
    Heya Pastor and welcome. Just checked out the link to the batteries you are planning on purchasing. I wouldn't recommend buying those.

    Standard flooded lead acid is what you want, and at least a lawn/tractor battery in capacity. You want to be able to pop the tops off and check the electrolyte levels. It's also hard to do effective COP testing on such a small battery.

    Avoid any AGM type batteries for starting out.

    These would be great to start with if you can afford: http://www.atbatt.com/trojan-scs150-...ing-series.asp
    oh wow, I could never get that battery, let alone 2 of them lol. Ill be on the lookout for some other type that is not sealed... I do have access to lawn mower batteries, I was hoping to use something a bit smaller though under my current circumstances... But, Ill do what I gotta do... Maybe a motorcycle battery??? They are quite a bit smaller than a tractor battery... What do you think?

    Thanks for your input...
    “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.”

  9. #9
    Senior Member Branch Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    614
    I started off with motorcycle batteries. They are fine for getting the machine running and learning the basics. As long as you can open them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pastor Gordon View Post
    oh wow, I could never get that battery, let alone 2 of them lol. Ill be on the lookout for some other type that is not sealed... I do have access to lawn mower batteries, I was hoping to use something a bit smaller though under my current circumstances... But, Ill do what I gotta do... Maybe a motorcycle battery??? They are quite a bit smaller than a tractor battery... What do you think?

    Thanks for your input...

  10. #10
    Pastor Gordon
    something like this will serve you will as you will put 100 of hr. on the ssg .spintime [how long wheel will spin by hand /no coil drag]
    spintime directly effects COP the rim has roller bearings 4 me a mustrim berr.jpg
    guy

    http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-F.../dp/B000AO5FEC
    i bought 1 good rim have it still 7=8 yr
    Last edited by guyzzemf; 09-12-2015 at 08:49 PM.

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