Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX


2019 ESTC ALL SEATS SOLD OUT!
PRE-REGISTER FOR THE
2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE

Monero XMR

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29

Thread: Solar Tracker 5 - Various Questions

  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    67
    @Aaron... why is it that the middle cells go bad? When I open up old LABs, it looks like the sulfation is mostly on one end.

    @Faraday... you need to draw it out using schematic symbols for the battery to show you how it all works. By first paralleling batteries, you're increasing plate width first & then just doubling the plate number to double the voltage. There's firstly "less middle" & secondly, more plate area, so that the same amount of sulfation is spread over more area, so less chance of shorted cells.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
    Posts
    1,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrie Castle View Post
    @Aaron... why is it that the middle cells go bad? When I open up old LABs, it looks like the sulfation is mostly on one end.

    @Faraday... you need to draw it out using schematic symbols for the battery to show you how it all works. By first paralleling batteries, you're increasing plate width first & then just doubling the plate number to double the voltage. There's firstly "less middle" & secondly, more plate area, so that the same amount of sulfation is spread over more area, so less chance of shorted cells.
    Hi Barie,
    Yes i agree that Batteries (cells) deteriorate outside -in and not the other way around... the middle cell is the last to get affected but more often remains intact as the side cell isolate it from external source.
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  3. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    12
    Hi Barrie and Aaron,

    Thanks for the replies.

    Barrie: Will have to draw it out as you say to get my head around it. I have thought about DIYing it but am very scared to make a very expensive mistake... Im quite new to all of this and even though it is fairly simple Im still trying to get my head around all the contradictory information.

    I haven’t got the "new update" of the battery wiring although I only downloaded the pdf recently so it may have been updated? If not where can I get the updated wiring diagram?

    Aaron/Barrie: The main reason the solar guy gave for not doing a 12v system was the heat because of the high(?) amperage in lower volt systems. He says that "any heat is just lost electricity".

    He wants to go with a 24 volt system made up of 12 x 1200ah 2v batteries in series... The main problem I have with this personally is that if you lose one cell your whole system goes down. He doesn’t seem to think its an issue. He has told me that most of the systems he has installed have been running now for around 18 years without any problems.

    Thanks again for all your help, its great that you guys are here to help a noob along.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
    Posts
    1,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke-es View Post
    Hi Barrie and Aaron,

    Thanks for the replies.

    Barrie: Will have to draw it out as you say to get my head around it. I have thought about DIYing it but am very scared to make a very expensive mistake... Im quite new to all of this and even though it is fairly simple Im still trying to get my head around all the contradictory information.

    I haven’t got the "new update" of the battery wiring although I only downloaded the pdf recently so it may have been updated? If not where can I get the updated wiring diagram?

    Aaron/Barrie: The main reason the solar guy gave for not doing a 12v system was the heat because of the high(?) amperage in lower volt systems. He says that "any heat is just lost electricity".

    He wants to go with a 24 volt system made up of 12 x 1200ah 2v batteries in series... The main problem I have with this personally is that if you lose one cell your whole system goes down. He doesn’t seem to think its an issue. He has told me that most of the systems he has installed have been running now for around 18 years without any problems.

    Thanks again for all your help, its great that you guys are here to help a noob along.
    Hi Luke es,
    18 years sound really unrealistic unless he has found some thing that we do not know here
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke-es View Post
    Hi Barrie and Aaron,

    Thanks for the replies.

    Barrie: Will have to draw it out as you say to get my head around it. I have thought about DIYing it but am very scared to make a very expensive mistake... Im quite new to all of this and even though it is fairly simple Im still trying to get my head around all the contradictory information.

    I haven’t got the "new update" of the battery wiring although I only downloaded the pdf recently so it may have been updated? If not where can I get the updated wiring diagram?

    Aaron/Barrie: The main reason the solar guy gave for not doing a 12v system was the heat because of the high(?) amperage in lower volt systems. He says that "any heat is just lost electricity".

    He wants to go with a 24 volt system made up of 12 x 1200ah 2v batteries in series... The main problem I have with this personally is that if you lose one cell your whole system goes down. He doesn’t seem to think its an issue. He has told me that most of the systems he has installed have been running now for around 18 years without any problems.

    Thanks again for all your help, its great that you guys are here to help a noob along.
    Fair enough.

    I reckon you're all updated. The first diagram was very confusing & needed re-drawing; the update was easy to understand straight up.

    Heat comes from amperage? I thought it came from power. It's still exactly the same power at the end of the day, as the draw is load - dependent. Aaron's ebook points out that the only reason for a higher voltage system is to reduces losses, but that's only the case if the guy uses old technology inverters. New pure sinewave inverters (post-2014) have a higher efficiency negating the need to go for 24V systems. It looks like there's no paralleling to be done anyway, so there's no problem. So why not just use 6 x 2V batteries & halve the chances of anything going wrong (like sulfation!)? So, he uses battery technology from 18+ years ago & has never had a complaint? Perhaps it has something to do with his replacement battery prices + service & call-out fees being so high - all added together that no-one dares call him over to fix their failed systems ever again?

    Be careful with this guy!

  6. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrie Castle View Post
    Fair enough.

    I reckon you're all updated. The first diagram was very confusing & needed re-drawing; the update was easy to understand straight up.

    Heat comes from amperage? I thought it came from power. It's still exactly the same power at the end of the day, as the draw is load - dependent. Aaron's ebook points out that the only reason for a higher voltage system is to reduces losses, but that's only the case if the guy uses old technology inverters. New pure sinewave inverters (post-2014) have a higher efficiency negating the need to go for 24V systems. It looks like there's no paralleling to be done anyway, so there's no problem. So why not just use 6 x 2V batteries & halve the chances of anything going wrong (like sulfation!)? So, he uses battery technology from 18+ years ago & has never had a complaint? Perhaps it has something to do with his replacement battery prices + service & call-out fees being so high - all added together that no-one dares call him over to fix their failed systems ever again?

    Be careful with this guy!
    I have quite a long run of cable from the solar panels to the battery room so the cables would be extremely expensive for a 12v system...Believe me I would love to run a 12v system as it cuts the cost of the battery bank in half..

    I dont want to go with a single string of 2v batteries because of redundancy. You lose one battery and you have lost your whole system until you find another battery.

    I think I am going to go with 12 Rolls 6v s605 in series/parallel to give me 1404Ah at 24volt.

    In regards to your thoughts on the solar guy, I dont think so. The guy is pretty honest. Flooded lead acid batteries have basically remained the same since they were invented so it makes no difference that the technology is 18+ years old... His prices are competitive and he has given us a good discount on his quote and helped us out with other things. He isnt a snake oil sales man... He is just set in his ways. He sells a certain system because he thinks its the best system and doesnt venture outside of that.

    I am in the end going to half DIY the project. I have a couple of friends that are electricians and can help me out.

    Any info on what people think about the Rolls 6v s605 would be great. Im a noob to all of this and cant even begin to image that the maintenance on 20 x t105-s (for less storage) is going to be easier than the maintenance of 12 x rolls s605 for more power and about the same price.

    the only benefit I can see of running smaller batteries is that a tesla charger charger/rejuvenator would be cheaper for the golf cart size battery when any of them go bad.

    I am going to look into it further and really try to use and maintain them as well as I can.

    The system is going to look something like this:

    2.8k Solar Panels
    Solar Tracker 5 - s80a24
    12 x Rolls 6v s605 - 1404Ah @ 24v
    Studer XTM 3500 24v Inverter

    any input would be much appreciated...

  7. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    12
    So, I have built the system.

    I went ahead and did it myself in the end.

    you can see some videos on it here:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZs...zNillEi-wdhOlg

    It has been up and running for a couple of months and so far so good. Well apart from the fan in the s80a24 burning out on the second day of use and the unit overheating.

    I changed the fan and now it seems to be running fine, although I have seen some changes recently in the way the charger is performing.

    I have been away for 3 weeks and before I left, the charger was pushing the batteries to about 30.7v and then tailing off to about 10amps and staying there.

    Now 3 weeks later, the charger is pushing the batteries up to about 31.07v then coming back down to 30.99v and putting in between 18.5 and 18.7amps. This makes me worry a little because of the change and the fact that the unit overheated. Also the temperatures have gone up quite a bit since I left so we are now at around 30 C in the battery room, dunno if that has anything to do with it?

    It would be great if someone from support could tell me if this is the normal functioning of the unit and or if someone that has one of these units could tell me how theirs is going.

    thanks!

  8. #18
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    1,438
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke-es View Post
    So, I have built the system.

    I went ahead and did it myself in the end.

    you can see some videos on it here:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZs...zNillEi-wdhOlg

    It has been up and running for a couple of months and so far so good. Well apart from the fan in the s80a24 burning out on the second day of use and the unit overheating.

    I changed the fan and now it seems to be running fine, although I have seen some changes recently in the way the charger is performing.

    I have been away for 3 weeks and before I left, the charger was pushing the batteries to about 30.7v and then tailing off to about 10amps and staying there.

    Now 3 weeks later, the charger is pushing the batteries up to about 31.07v then coming back down to 30.99v and putting in between 18.5 and 18.7amps. This makes me worry a little because of the change and the fact that the unit overheated. Also the temperatures have gone up quite a bit since I left so we are now at around 30 C in the battery room, dunno if that has anything to do with it?

    It would be great if someone from support could tell me if this is the normal functioning of the unit and or if someone that has one of these units could tell me how theirs is going.

    thanks!
    30.7 is about perfect for 24 volts - assuming these are flooded cell batteries.

    31.07 - sounds like there was some sulfation pushing the voltage up, but if it dropped, that is a good sign.

    Does it keep repeating the higher voltage push?

    I didn't look at the video yet, but will.

    Do you need a fan replacement?
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  9. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    12
    Hi Aaron,

    thanks for the reply.

    yes they are lead acid, flooded.

    I checked the water levels today and all of the batteries were quite low. None of the plates showing but low, never the less.

    I have topped them up with about 2.9gallons. That is what they have used in about 3 weeks.

    Right now the charger is at around 31.24 and putting in around 16 amps. so the amps have come down but the voltage has gone up a little. Will check back in a couple of days to see what is happening as I suppose it will take a little while to stabilize now, while the water mixes in to the electrolyte.

    I have noticed the specific gravity on one cell of one battery a lot lower than there rest. this was the cell with the lowest water. So hoping that that will pop back up now otherwise it seems as if that battery might be faulty... Maybe this is why it is pushing the voltage up?

    I will try and disconnect that bank and see if it goes back to 30.7v. with just the other two strings.


    I have already replaced the fan thanks.

    Edit: So a couple of hours after I wrote the original post. The charger is now pushing the batteries up to 31.5 and pushing in 22amps. Its 15:00 in the afternoon so the batteries are more than charged. It should have tapered down to a float voltage a while ago. Normally it goes down to float voltage by about 11.00 - 12:00.
    Last edited by Luke-es; 05-28-2017 at 06:15 AM.

  10. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Mallorca, Spain
    Posts
    12
    So I have run a couple of tests since I last posted.

    I tried disconecting the string that had the low cell and that didnt change the way it was charging. It was still pushing the batteries up to 31v + and pumping in the amps.

    I then thought that my batteries never get cycled much so i would give them a good cycle and see if that sorted it. I turned my solar panels off and let it discharge to about 80%.

    It charged back up after that but it seems like its not going into float. At the moment I have to go and turn the charger off once the batteries are charged otherwise it just keeps on pumping in the amps.

    Do you have any other ideas about trouble shooting? So far though, it does seem like its the charger malfunctioning, its just not going into float.

    today we have had full sun and the batteries have now been at 31v + with 25 to 30 amps going in for a couple of hours. Im starting to get a little worried as its a brand new 4000€ battery bank. so any help would be much appreciated.
    Last edited by Luke-es; 06-02-2017 at 04:48 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •