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Thread: Common Ground Switch(Generator Mode) & Adding a Generator Coil - Observations

  1. #1

    Common Ground Switch(Generator Mode) & Adding a Generator Coil - Observations

    A. After some guidance and clarifications from Teslagenx, I wired in a SPDT switch with the 8 transistor board and Charge battery connections. This results in a switchable charging mode. First mode is the normal SSG output configuration on the Charge battery. Selecting the 2nd mode connects the Charge battery in a common ground configuration and adds a diode in that side of the circuit..... as described in the Advanced Book.

    Observations:
    1.) Be sure to take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly, before installing the wiring and SPDT switch.
    2.) My wheel RPM decreased about 100 RPM when switched from SSG to Common Ground charging mode; 270 -> 170.
    3.) Amp meter on Run Battery showed 0.5 increase draw.
    4.) Charge voltage increases about 1 - 2 volts.
    5.) Charge battery charges faster, which is a good trade-off for the small increase in running amperage.

    B. I made the Low-Drag generator coil, following the recommendations in the Advanced book, with two modifications.
    Observations:
    1.) Added about 10 ft to each winding, to add a few more turns on the coil and compensate for wire shortening during the twisting process, for a total length of 140ft.
    2.) Added 2 additional windings for a total of 12.
    3.) Added an additional 1 inch to center core making it 2.5 inches wide. This is for future experiments to attain better performance.
    4.) If you are twisting the coil wire without help, recommend you find a grassy area to layout wire so as not to scuff the thin coating. Then locate center of the wire's length and bend it around a small rod driven in the ground. Twist each half separately. While there may be a 1 -2 inch segment that is not tightly twisted, it can be hand twisted during the winding of the coil,to tighten that small wire length. If the wire is not sufficiently twisted, it will be bigger in diameter, which can affect how much get wrapped on the spool. The twisted wires made a very stiff cable.
    5.) Winding the stiff, twisted wire is like winding solid copper metal. It is fatiguing to the wrists and fingers. It will require several sessions to complete.
    6.) Connecting the individual windings in series is necessary to get the most voltage. requires a volt/continuity meter to locate the bottom end of each winding. Find some good wire connectors that will grip each cleaned wire end. With the help/experience of fellow-contributors Aaron Murakami and James McDonald, serializing the windings were successfully completed.
    7.) Mounting the coil is important. Mount it as close to the wheel as possible to get the highest voltage. Rotate the wheel slowly to find the minimum distance where the highest magnet/wheel bobble will not touch the coil and add 1/16 inch gap.
    8.) Mount it so it does not come loose, when the wheel is turning. I drilled a hole in the rods that extended below the coil and pinned it to an anchored cross member with a woodscrew.
    9.) The output initial thru a bridge rectifier was disappointing; only 7 volts and 55 milliamps. With not enough wheel RPM (130 RPM with generator next to magnets) and lots of drag from the wide coil core, the performance was poor.
    10.) To improve RPM, I reduced the gap on the power coil to about 1/16 inch and loosened the wheel bearings, adding and a film of STP (oil additive) to both bearings.
    11.) Added a stack of 2 small Neo magnets super glued to each side of the rim, in between ceramic. Best voltage attained with South side facing out. They are far enough away from the coil core, facing slightly sideways. No adverse effects on the power coil were seen. While the power coil sees only a North magnetic field, the generator coil sees an alternating North field, then a South field across its wider core.
    12.) Wheel speed without generator coil attached and running in SSG mode was 275 RPM.
    13.) Wheel speed with generator attached is now 175.
    14.) Voltage increased to 11.8 and current increased to 250 milliamps thru bridge rectifier. This accessory has potentially useful power now.......
    15.) No generator testing to date in Common Ground mode.

    Anyone getting better low-drag generator performance?? Any SSG self-running potential being explored with this surplus power??

    I will be further tuning the generator output. Also planning to create a PMH-design generator, to see if the low-Lenzing character will improve the SSG Wheel speed and PMH generator output. See MrAngusWangus channel on You tube, for additional description/characteristics. More on that to come.
    Last edited by jd_zinke@hotmail.com; 08-04-2015 at 12:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Hi, thanks for sharing all those details.

    To go from 275 to 175 rpm, your gen coil must be almost touching the coil?

    I don't recall the voltage off hand that the gen coil produces on the model that Peter demonstrated, but I think it might have been around 20 volts.

    One area that I want to explore more is shorting the coil at the right time. Can easily get over 100 volts. Peter and I did a few tests with that and thati s not a new concept. We didn't include that in the book because the books are really to showcase John's work specifically and not our own.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #3
    To get some usable voltage, I had to put the gen coil less than 1/8 inch from the wheel. I'm hoping that the coil-shorting technique will produce sufficient voltage that I can back the coil away to increase wheel speed. Is there a preferable placement of the reed switch to get the best results?? (i.e. ahead of the coil/behind the coil, relative to direction of wheel rotation??) Is it preferable to put a small cap across the reed switch to reduce arcing, or will the electrolytics in John's/Peter's advanced SSG generator circuit do that anyway??

    Since I've integrated S pole neos on the top-outside of the wheel rim, in between the N pole ceramics (18 ceramic magnets on the wheel), there is additional attraction to the outer edges of the wide generator core. That may also be affecting the wheel speed.

    I did notice an increase in wheel speed/torque when I moved the SSG coil closer in. This helped keep the wheel from stopping, when the gen coil is under various loads.

    I'll be working on the generator shorting to see if I can get higher voltage/current output. That will determine how quickly I shift to making a separate wheel with a combination of cermaics with neos alternating polarity on the outside of the wheel rim. This is a PMH style, U-shaped core with aluminum spools of #16 wire. Any feedback on this type of generator or use of coil shorting with it??

  4. #4

    help neded do you have a diagram on this

    Quote Originally Posted by jd_zinke@hotmail.com View Post
    A. After some guidance and clarifications from Teslagenx, I wired in a SPDT switch with the 8 transistor board and Charge battery connections. This results in a switchable charging mode. First mode is the normal SSG output configuration on the Charge battery. Selecting the 2nd mode connects the Charge battery in a common ground configuration and adds a diode in that side of the circuit..... as described in the Advanced Book.

    Observations:
    1.) Be sure to take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly, before installing the wiring and SPDT switch.
    2.) My wheel RPM decreased about 100 RPM when switched from SSG to Common Ground charging mode; 270 -> 170.
    3.) Amp meter on Run Battery showed 0.5 increase draw.
    4.) Charge voltage increases about 1 - 2 volts.
    5.) Charge battery charges faster, which is a good trade-off for the small increase in running amperage.

    B. I made the Low-Drag generator coil, following the recommendations in the Advanced book, with two modifications.
    Observations:
    1.) Added about 10 ft to each winding, to add a few more turns on the coil and compensate for wire shortening during the twisting process, for a total length of 140ft.
    2.) Added 2 additional windings for a total of 12.
    3.) Added an additional 1 inch to center core making it 2.5 inches wide. This is for future experiments to attain better performance.
    4.) If you are twisting the coil wire without help, recommend you find a grassy area to layout wire so as not to scuff the thin coating. Then locate center of the wire's length and bend it around a small rod driven in the ground. Twist each half separately. While there may be a 1 -2 inch segment that is not tightly twisted, it can be hand twisted during the winding of the coil,to tighten that small wire length. If the wire is not sufficiently twisted, it will be bigger in diameter, which can affect how much get wrapped on the spool. The twisted wires made a very stiff cable.
    5.) Winding the stiff, twisted wire is like winding solid copper metal. It is fatiguing to the wrists and fingers. It will require several sessions to complete.
    6.) Connecting the individual windings in series is necessary to get the most voltage. requires a volt/continuity meter to locate the bottom end of each winding. Find some good wire connectors that will grip each cleaned wire end. With the help/experience of fellow-contributors Aaron Murakami and James McDonald, serializing the windings were successfully completed.
    7.) Mounting the coil is important. Mount it as close to the wheel as possible to get the highest voltage. Rotate the wheel slowly to find the minimum distance where the highest magnet/wheel bobble will not touch the coil and add 1/16 inch gap.
    8.) Mount it so it does not come loose, when the wheel is turning. I drilled a hole in the rods that extended below the coil and pinned it to an anchored cross member with a woodscrew.
    9.) The output initial thru a bridge rectifier was disappointing; only 7 volts and 55 milliamps. With not enough wheel RPM (130 RPM with generator next to magnets) and lots of drag from the wide coil core, the performance was poor.
    10.) To improve RPM, I reduced the gap on the power coil to about 1/16 inch and loosened the wheel bearings, adding and a film of STP (oil additive) to both bearings.
    11.) Added a stack of 2 small Neo magnets super glued to each side of the rim, in between ceramic. Best voltage attained with South side facing out. They are far enough away from the coil core, facing slightly sideways. No adverse effects on the power coil were seen. While the power coil sees only a North magnetic field, the generator coil sees an alternating North field, then a South field across its wider core.
    12.) Wheel speed without generator coil attached and running in SSG mode was 275 RPM.
    13.) Wheel speed with generator attached is now 175.
    14.) Voltage increased to 11.8 and current increased to 250 milliamps thru bridge rectifier. This accessory has potentially useful power now.......
    15.) No generator testing to date in Common Ground mode.

    Anyone getting better low-drag generator performance?? Any SSG self-running potential being explored with this surplus power??

    I will be further tuning the generator output. Also planning to create a PMH-design generator, to see if the low-Lenzing character will improve the SSG Wheel speed and PMH generator output. See MrAngusWangus channel on You tube, for additional description/characteristics. More on that to come.
    what do you mean take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly on my setup all neons come on something not wright their

  5. #5
    You will have to omit step 2-1, if you apply the generator modification (generator mode). If you complete the assembly per the instruction book that comes with the Teslagenx 8 board and later on add the wiring, diode and DPST switch, there will be a short on the board. This will melt 2 traces on the 8 trany board. Recommend you send an email to Tom and ask for the diagram that adds the generator mode to their 8 trany board.
    Last edited by jd_zinke@hotmail.com; 10-14-2015 at 12:43 AM.

  6. #6
    Hi--just wondered what sort of diode to use for common ground mode. Can you use the 1N4007? I don't remember seeing anything in the book about the specific diode but will check again.

  7. #7
    Hi Mike,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Swanson View Post
    Hi--just wondered what sort of diode to use for common ground mode. Can you use the 1N4007? I don't remember seeing anything in the book about the specific diode but will check again.
    A single 1N4007 will probably blow as the current will exceed it's one amp rating. I use two 1N5408 diodes twisted together in parallel, and they handle the current just fine.
    Gary Hammond,

  8. #8
    Ah great, you saved me a diode!

  9. #9
    Hello, where and how are you using the output of the gen coil??? because Peter and Aaron had it conected to some caps and led light array, in a way that the gen coil only works on the peek of the sine wave so the drag happens only when the magnet is over the coil and not all the time, that way the drag is a lot less.

    if your gen coil outputs for example 20v and you use it to charge a battery (12v), the gen coil would create drag almost all the time. Now.. if your gen coil outputs 13v and you charge a 12v battery the drag is a lot less.

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