How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[rfnreynders]

@John_Bedini

Alright,

so i watched the clips.
As i see it, the voltage is a little lower then acid filled battery's.
The alum battery charges much quicker
The alum battery can be drained to 0 volt, without harming the battery
The alum isn't toxic.
The alum just crystalizes when it dries up.
(i read on wikipedia, that when heating alum, it liquifies)
Therefore an alum battery should always be able to recover. just ad the water and pump the power in.
As i see it, you only used a 1 amp panel.
This tells me you are pulsing the system like a joule thief style puls, pulling energy from the ambient? Hence tickling the cell to pul power from ether.
Maybe i am way of here?

How about the power the cell holds? Say one uses a 10 amp/h battery on acid, is it still 10 amp/h on alum ?
Then again with that charge curve, i recon that not continiously pulling power from the alum battery, say pulsed, the alum battery will hold its charge longer?

My 2 penny's of thought.

Could you enlighten me some more?

P.s. did you guys see the opst i did on the low lenz generator... pretty nifty stuff

cheers,

Rene

[John_Bedini]

@All/John Hav,
If you get a big one you will do back flips. Everybody is just goofing around with small devices. but if you start to get into the 24 Amp Hr range things will change. The reason for the food grade Alum is simple anything else and you will start to eat the active material on the plates. Epsom Salts is just good one time.Sodium Sulphate will soften the material on the plates and it soon will fall off. Using detergent and tap water will cause the plates to not take a charge as all the active material is dissolved away, the minerals and the chlorine in tap water is very damaging to the plates. The battery works two ways with Sulphuric Acid as a normal Lead Acid Battery or with Food Grade Alum or Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate.

The salt (Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate) is a very good Ionic compound and works very well for ionic transfer, just a little research will point that out. Again I will point out the two different impedances that take place. The impedance is high under charging so current is less. Under load the impedance is very much lower so current is available, My charts do not lie in the video as I have done this many times. Taking a dry Battery off the shelf is the test, and I did that on video and I'm going to do it again. You can lead people to the water but you can not make them drink. In all my years with batteries this one along with the copper magnesium Cell perform the best for current with shifting impedance. Most are unsuccessful because they use junk batteries, junk batteries do not perform, the old saying Junk in Junk out.

This is not Voodoo it's just the way chemistry works in the cells. If you think the store dry charge battery is hard to do try a 1951 Willard battery that has never been formed, that is on video too.ll/
Yes and expect a lower voltage between a dry cell and a Ni-cad battery. Lead only stands at 2.23 anyway and that is an Acid cell. But Alum is the opposite.
Oh and the Tesla Tracker only goes into an oscillation mode after the battery is 15 volts.

[John_Koorn]

I've been finding it hard to get food grade alum in Australia, but I did find a web site that showed how easy it is to grow your own alum crystals. How to Grow a Big Alum Crystal Just have to substitute the tap water for distilled water.

Here's a quick video (not mine, sorry about the ads)

http://video.about.com/chemistry/Grow-Alum-Crystals.htm

I just have to find a grocery store here that sells a small amount of alum here and I can start. If I can't find one I might have to get Chuck to send me some.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Well I couldn't find any alum in local grocery stores, but I did find some alum

It turns out that I've been wiping my armpits with it for years! The crystal deodorant sticks you can buy contain Ammonium Alum. According to a couple of web sites, this is the same formula that John Bedini posted so I guess it is the same food grade alum. So I went from the spice aisle in the grocery store to the personal hygiene aisle and sure enough there was one brand that said it contained only Ammonium Alum.

The deodorant stick I bought was about $7 and that's not going to be enough for what I need so I'm going to crush some of it up and see if I can use it as "seed crystals" to grow my own alum crystals. I've got some dried out 12V 55Ah gel cells that I'm going to attempt to convert to alum batteries. I have about 12 of these, so my plan is to charge these off the solar tracker I have and run the 10 coiler with them.

John K.

[geoffrey sr miller]

Mr.Bedini

In your video you said that you trash your ALK batteries.
I have been charging them up with this charger, and have also put 20amps on any ALK battery until [COLOR="#FF0000"]HOT[/COLOR} and it charges the batteries up also.

Have been doing 20 amp. charge thing, when I was 8 years old.

What do you use for your potting compound?


Thank You

Geoffrey

[LesK]

John K,
I sure hope it works for you as I have 12 AGM's as well that I would like to convert and run.
So I really want to see if you have to break them open and if you can just do the same as we have been doing with the motorcycle batts.
I have just started charging my 14ah battery. I bought this new, Put alum in it. Thought it did not work because it would only hold to about 9.8 volts.
So I posted on the old monopole group that I must have done it wrong. Turns out it was working fine! But I cleaned it out and tried to add acid. That really did not work!
So it sat there in the shop all this time unused.
I cleaned it and dried it. I did not use any baking soda. It sat over the weekend upside down outside to dry. This morning I added the Alum mixture. and it showed six volts. Then I stated charging with my pulser circuit.
It went up to over 14volts then would bounce up and down a little and worked it's way down to about 13.6 volts. Then after about an hour has stabilized at 13.7 with very little fluctuation.

Anyway I want to get my confidence up so I can do my brand new 800cca batteries. So if these begin to work well, I will have a very nice project to do.

I am doing two larger 22ah 10hr rate motorcycle batteries as well. These were the ones that I had used on the Ferris wheel and was charging and discharging at the same time. They quickly went dead dead dead....0volts.
and would not charge with anything! SSG nothing. So I drained them (yukkie black stuff came out. Kind of thick stuff) I used baking soda like lidmotor did. and then rinsed them very thoroughly many times.
If this works that will be great. if not I may take them apart and clean the lead and build a new battery altogether. Cool stuff we have learned here to be able to do something like that.
Although I remember in sixth grade making batteries with lead and baking soda. I have heard that is not a good thing to do poisonous or something....

Les

Well I couldn't find any alum in local grocery stores, but I did find some alum

It turns out that I've been wiping my armpits with it for years! The crystal deodorant sticks you can buy contain Ammonium Alum. According to a couple of web sites, this is the same formula that John Bedini posted so I guess it is the same food grade alum. So I went from the spice aisle in the grocery store to the personal hygiene aisle and sure enough there was one brand that said it contained only Ammonium Alum.

The deodorant stick I bought was about $7 and that's not going to be enough for what I need so I'm going to crush some of it up and see if I can use it as "seed crystals" to grow my own alum crystals. I've got some dried out 12V 55Ah gel cells that I'm going to attempt to convert to alum batteries. I have about 12 of these, so my plan is to charge these off the solar tracker I have and run the 10 coiler with them.

John K.

[LesK]

What's Missing?

@All

Ok, so I have come to a conclusion that one chemical is missing to have a very "Valuable Alum Battery" using a Dry Charge Battery So far you can see where the energy is coming from, However I'm looking for more power for very long times. And I'm looking for very fast charge time compared to the lead acid battery. I view everything in differential equations. So I have added information on the chemical and the metal, I have not added in the oxides yet.

Ok, John I'll take a shot at this...
Hydrophilic Nano-particles of carbon?

I tried making some colloidal silver one time..... Never tried Carbon

Les

[Barrie Castle]

I've been finding it hard to get food grade alum in Australia, but I did find a web site that showed how easy it is to grow your own alum crystals. How to Grow a Big Alum Crystal Just have to substitute the tap water for distilled water.

Here's a quick video (not mine, sorry about the ads)

http://video.about.com/chemistry/Grow-Alum-Crystals.htm

I just have to find a grocery store here that sells a small amount of alum here and I can start. If I can't find one I might have to get Chuck to send me some.

John K.

John,

I can order the stuff from overseas through my work. Let me know if you want some & how much. Might take a month to get here & is extremely expensive. I have a small pot of food grade potassium aluminium sulphate & can get tech grade alum off the shelf, but our supplier needs to order in from overseas. They only deal business-to-business. Is your business still up & running? If so, give ACE Chemicals a call. The tricky part is to convince them you have a legitimate, conventional use for it & tie it into your business.

[John_Koorn]

Hey Barrie,

Thanks for the offer, however I'd like to try growing my own first. It looks like a fun project and I can grow my own deodorant too

John K.

[John_Bedini]

John K,
Do you have a spice house where you live? Do you also plan on taking the batteries apart?
The first thing to do is to test a simple lead cell using what you have, you do not need much to do this but you must dissolve it in distilled water. Make a paste and use a paper towel between the plates form them at .3 amperes. make sure they are moist or in a cup like I did. rubber bands work good to hold them together. Alum grows real fast.

[John_Bedini]

Composition: Papermaker's alum is aluminum sulfate. Concentrations and addition amounts are usually based on either (a) the equivalent amount of Al2O3 or (b) the equivalent amount of the hydrate, Al2O3.14H2O. Alum is most commonly delivered as a liquid concentration, having a solids level of 8.3% as Al2O3 or about 50% as hydrate. Alum solutions are acidic. For instance, a 1% solution has a pH of around 3. Ionic species present in alum solutions are highly dependent on the degree of reaction with hydroxyl ions. It is tempting to say that "the composition is pH-dependent." However, in the vicinity of pH=4.3 the composition of alum solutions changes a great deal with very little change in pH. At pH=3 and lower the main species is a hydrated form of Al3+. At a pH near to 4.3 there may be oligomers such as Al13O40H487+ or related species that contain sulfate. In a broad range of pH between about 6 and 9.5 the main species will be Al(OH)3 (and possibly related species that contain sulfate). The soluble aluminate ion predominates at pH values greater that 9.5.

It is important to mix enough Alum. I hope to post a new video tomorrow on a lead alum crystal without growth so far. We will see how it goes.

ALUM

[John_Koorn]

John K,
Do you have a spice house where you live? Do you also plan on taking the batteries apart?
The first thing to do is to test a simple lead cell using what you have, you do not need much to do this but you must dissolve it in distilled water. Make a paste and use a paper towel between the plates form them at .3 amperes. make sure they are moist or in a cup like I did. rubber bands work good to hold them together. Alum grows real fast.

John B, I searched all the Australian spice houses on the internet and couldn't find any that stocked food grade alum. I do plan on taking the batteries apart but first I will create a simple cell from some old dried out 7Ah batteries I have to test first.
Question, do alum batteries off-gas like lead acid do? After I cut the batteries open and convert them to alum I was planning on sealing them back up but do I need to leave breather holes?

John K.

[Lidmotor]

Alum electrolyte pH

@ All
I did some testing today to see if the Alum electrolyte was alkaline or acidic after my motorcycle battery formed up strong. What I saw was a mild acidity of about pH 3. Similar to household vinegar. Thanks John for that post explaining how the Alum pH can change. I don't understand much about the chemical reactions going on but the electrolyte seems to be staying safe. It is a huge advantage over having the highly dangerous sulfuric acid in the battery.


@ John B.
I made a "sandwich" cell like you and Slider did using a felt like material separator to hold the Alum electrolyte. The plates are about 1/8" x 1" x 3" of that linotype metal (it actually is linotype with the letters still on it). The sandwich is held together with rubber bands like you did and I put it in a small plastic bag like Slider did. It works great!! Only 7 more cells and I would have a neat little 12v battery.

Lidmotor

[John_Koorn]

From a PM, hope you don't mind Tom. John K.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi John

I have been trying to post some information relating to the Alum or Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate but the Admin has not yet approved my posting ability.

It's interesting that this Alum is in deoderant but did you know it can also be found in a Photographic Chemistry Kit with the same name of Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate.

Yes, photographic chemistry is a last century skill, but if you search for it related to photography it still can be found. Many suppliers have it sitting in their warehouses.

Please post a question to John Bendini if this old dry powder is still useable or are we forced to purchase only McCormick spice Alum

Thank you

Tom

[James Milner]

Here in Australia I have found two ready sources of alum.
Kraftkolour. Natural Dyes
And at plaster and moulding supplies, alum is used as a setting accelerant for plaster of Paris.
In Adelaide I go here Adelaide Moulding & Casting Supplies
For those near Wollongong I have spoken to bisley chemical supplies who have a warehouse in Wollongong. They can supply alum readily. I suggest taking a nice large bucket as they usually supply by the tonne. But I'm sue you could get a couple of kilos for next to nothing. I was quoted around $5 a kilo about 3 months ago.
Here is the website. Aluminium Sulfate ( Alum )
If you are going to do serious quantities bisley is the best bet. I just wish I had an excuse to drive all the way to NSW!
Hope that helps
James