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Thread: Mode 1 SSG COP > 1 Proof Thread

  1. #1
    Senior Member jelloir's Avatar
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    Mode 1 SSG COP > 1 Proof Thread

    So I'm not skilled in the art (yet), what can I say... both my SSG's achieve about .65 COP in mode 1 and I have been testing almost every day for 1 year, therefore I am hoping someone who IS skilled on the art could post some numbers, a video... whatever showing a proven COP > 1 in mode 1 on an SSG.

    If the skilled people could follow the guide below for a COP run and post results that would be wonderful! It's something I have become a little obsessed with and seems a simple way to demonstrate a COP > 1. (Note to John_Koorn... if there is anything else we should know about this test method please let us know).

    From: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post15157

    1. Charge battery up to 15.3v and note draw current from primary with analog meter.
    2. Discharge secondary battery for 1 hour at the same rate as primary draw from step 1. Helps if you have a CBA unit or similar so you can dial in the draw current.
    3. Recharge secondary again to 15.3v. Note minutes taken to recharge.

    To calculate COP, divide 60 by minutes from step 3 for the electrical COP.
    For the total COP add the mechanical energy from the wheel as well.


    I became interested in the SSG originally for it's COP claims. I always like to prove things for myself but so far I haven't had any success. I'm not one to give up on things, but this has got me beat and I'm feeling a little down, so purely as a selfish "pick me up" I would love for people to post their COP info here. Even folks with a COP close to 1 would be great to see. I'm sure there are many others out there like me that would benefit from a thread like this.

    James

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    do it to 14.5 instead of 15.3 and watch what happens , the last 10 to 15 percent of a battery is very hard to get topped off with pulse charging, constant current charging is much easier to do, that is what makes the solar trackers and Johns chargers so great. you can get even higher cop's if you run your calculations with the battery in the middle of it's charge voltage (charge to 14.2 or so) when there is lots of room for the spike in the battery.

    I know it seems strange, voltage is not "just" voltage, a potential charger does not like resistance to flow, which is why we always talk about big wire and why the comparator is so good at charging batteries and Desulphating them.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    also there is the Peukert effect as part of this equation. there is a threshold of current draw that states the lower the current draw the longer the battery acts like it is not being discharged. if you draw current out of the battery at or below its self discharge rate it is pretty amazing. you can pull much more than 100 amp hours out of a 100 amp hour battery if you do it slowly enough.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert's_law

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  4. #4
    Senior Member Branch Gordon's Avatar
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    Hey man. i wanted to chime in here with my thoughts on this as I've experienced that same frustrations as you. I have never been able to get my batteries working right with the wheel. I have seen changes in charge curves for sure, but then shorter discharge times. A couple times I got a COP over 1 but it didn't last as my battery slowly deteriorated.

    I will say that I have had the opposite experience with the solid state SG that I built. I see very obvious improvements in charging, and my discharge curves get better and better with these old batteries I am restoring.

    So there has got to be something wrong with my wheel configuration. The solid state machine runs at a much higher frequency...these batteries just like it better for whatever reason. The other difference of course is coil gap on a wheel vs no coil gap on solid state. I've heard both sides of the coin...to adjust the gap until you get the highest RPM. But I've also read to adjust it out as far as it will go and still have the machine run. That way you aren't oversaturating the coil at all.

    I also am suspecting that the CBA unit hinders the charging process. I had it hooked up to a capacitor the other day charting some crystal batteries charging it up...just in charge monitor mode...it was draining the capacitor too much. I changed over to my radio shack meter and was able to charge up to a higher voltage without issue. I have accidentely unplugged my USB cable once while it was hooked up to my solid state machine...when I plugged it back in, I saw sparks. So I think the spike is definitely traveling down the USB cable. It's never harmed my computer in the few years I've used it however.
    Quote Originally Posted by jelloir View Post
    So I'm not skilled in the art (yet), what can I say... both my SSG's achieve about .65 COP in mode 1 and I have been testing almost every day for 1 year, therefore I am hoping someone who IS skilled on the art could post some numbers, a video... whatever showing a proven COP > 1 in mode 1 on an SSG.

    If the skilled people could follow the guide below for a COP run and post results that would be wonderful! It's something I have become a little obsessed with and seems a simple way to demonstrate a COP > 1. (Note to John_Koorn... if there is anything else we should know about this test method please let us know).

    From: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post15157

    1. Charge battery up to 15.3v and note draw current from primary with analog meter.
    2. Discharge secondary battery for 1 hour at the same rate as primary draw from step 1. Helps if you have a CBA unit or similar so you can dial in the draw current.
    3. Recharge secondary again to 15.3v. Note minutes taken to recharge.

    To calculate COP, divide 60 by minutes from step 3 for the electrical COP.
    For the total COP add the mechanical energy from the wheel as well.


    I became interested in the SSG originally for it's COP claims. I always like to prove things for myself but so far I haven't had any success. I'm not one to give up on things, but this has got me beat and I'm feeling a little down, so purely as a selfish "pick me up" I would love for people to post their COP info here. Even folks with a COP close to 1 would be great to see. I'm sure there are many others out there like me that would benefit from a thread like this.

    James

  5. #5
    I could show you ,,, but then I would have to kill you....


    No wait ,,, I could show you ,,, but then They would have to kill me,,,,,, ;-()



    Tom is dead on with both accounts.

    I would say especially "Peukert effect"...

    There are a few ways to prove this out. First DO NOT use batteries of the same size on the front and the back. Use much larger on the front at least and measure the watts consumed. You will still use the same energy but your primary will be much happier if you have lowered your C rating..

    Another way to make it work is to consider this... how much are you drawing? Where does that fall in the C rating of the front battery? If you must use the same battery on front and back make sure it is sized properly for the load, and I mean at least c20 but prefer much better like c40 or c60. "Peukert effect" has everything to do with it. There are still tuning tricks like Branch mentions but if you do not have a good C rate happening you will not get the results your looking for. James put a bunch of batteries in parallel on your front and run the machine, then do it without changing any resistance with just one battery and you will see the difference pretty quickly. Now of curse you will use slightly more watts because the voltage will not be dropping, it gets hard to calculate it all but you can make a observation of this effect quite easily.

    I think a lot of people do not think about the fact that the "garden" battery was suggested for the original bi-filer setup which consumed 200ma or less. When you add more power windings you are increasing the load and dropping the C rate drastically. An original bi-filer would be running at nearly C60 on a garden battery.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 03-12-2015 at 06:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Hi all,

    What do you expect to learn from the SG in its normal plain unmodified configuration? John can do pretty close to 12:1 in the TUV test. So what is that machine doing that we are not? It is for sure not your normal SG machine as it has a cap dump and who knows what else??? No one is saying much about that machine though. Anyway...

    I made a post before about increasing torque, because the SG is less than 20% efficient at using the magnetic field to produce torque. And the trigger winding dissipates, amount other things, a large percentage of the coil collapse which is energy lost. When all losses are considered the machine is at best 20% efficient. That is what page 25 of the SG Beginners Handbook suggests.

    Here are a few pictures that may give you some ideas to start opening your minds to the basic possibilities outside of the SG solenoid arrangement. Read this as well... http://pvb.pavlabor.net/SE/FreeEnerg...ndow_motor.pdf

    All the pics came from the net... The two white images are from Ron Coles notes released by John Bedini on the window motor forum.

    -Dave Wing
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dave Wing; 03-12-2015 at 09:47 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wing View Post
    Hi all,

    What do you expect to learn from the SG in its normal plain unmodified configuration? John can do pretty close to 12:1 in the TUV test. So what is that machine doing that we are not? It is for sure not your normal SG machine as it has a cap dump and who knows what else??? No one is saying much about that machine though. Anyway...

    I made a post before about increasing torque, because the SG is less than 20% efficient at using the magnetic field to produce torque. And the trigger winding dissipates, amount other things, a large percentage of the coil collapse which is energy lost. When all losses are considered the machine is at best 20% efficient. That is what page 25 of the SG Beginners Handbook suggests.

    Here are a few pictures that may give you some ideas to start opening your minds to the basic possibilities outside of the SG solenoid arrangement. Read this as well... http://pvb.pavlabor.net/SE/FreeEnerg...ndow_motor.pdf

    All the pics came from the net... The two white images are from Ron Coles notes released by John Bedini on the window motor forum.

    -Dave Wing
    So what is the deal the the trigger winding???, a hall in it's place would increase the eficiency? if that is so, can a hall be used in the SSG circuit isn't ? or it has to be bedni-cole?

    Alvaro

  8. #8
    Hi Alvaro,

    Quote Originally Posted by AlvaroHN View Post
    So what is the deal the the trigger winding???, a hall in it's place would increase the eficiency? if that is so, can a hall be used in the SSG circuit isn't ? or it has to be bedni-cole?

    Alvaro
    The Bedini - Cole and the SSG circuit can both be triggered with either a coil or a hall switch. I have an SSG triggered with a hall switch which I posted elsewhere on this board. I think some others have as well - maybe Patrick?
    Gary Hammond,

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hammond View Post
    Hi Alvaro,



    The Bedini - Cole and the SSG circuit can both be triggered with either a coil or a hall switch. I have an SSG triggered with a hall switch which I posted elsewhere on this board. I think some others have as well - maybe Patrick?
    Gary, is the SSG more efficient with the hall than with the trigger wire?

    Alvaro

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AlvaroHN View Post
    So what is the deal the the trigger winding???, a hall in it's place would increase the eficiency? if that is so, can a hall be used in the SSG circuit isn't ? or it has to be bedni-cole?

    Alvaro

    Hi Alvaro,

    Here is a link that should help everyone... http://pvb.pavlabor.net/SE/FreeEnerg...lelabnotes.htm

    These posts on this site also seem to come from the yahoo window motor group and even mention the Bedini Cole notes... http://tesla3.com/free_websites/zpe_bedini_window.html
    Look at the planetary motor and how it is made as well...

    Anyone have access to the window motor group and would be willing to share their username and password so I can access the files for research? Does Rick own that group or does John? Tom C. Can you do any digging into this?

    Also here is a link to the zero force motor.... http://youtu.be/3kpDMMcNQxc

    -Dave Wing
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dave Wing; 03-13-2015 at 11:04 AM.

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