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Thread: Double window motor/generator build journal

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Bradley,

    the window motor is a torque motor, its best efficiency (this is from what I have heard John say) is you run it as fast as it will go, load it down to 2/3 of its fastest speed, that is the most efficient range of operation, current draw goes down a bit and work gets done. A window motor under load is not a self runner, its just very efficient. you can adjust current draw thru timing and load. I have never seen a window motor doing other work besides running itself go over unity. and I have only seen one self power. and here lies the problem, its not ENOUGH to have it self run, you need it to self run while powering other loads.

    the fan on an SG is another example of adjusting current draw, the fan slows the machine a bit, and it does work by moving air. not a lot of work but some, it is one method of power extraction.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  2. #22
    Thanks Tom your always a help. Is that the fastest it will go at any timing because like i said before there is a point where it is very fast but has little torque and won't charge the caps higher than 12 volts, but at a different point it runs slower with lots of torque and charges caps very quickly. so am I supposed to go with the high torque timing and base everything off the top speed from that point.

    As far as it not being overunity...I am fine with that for now but I don't see many people mixing these high efficiency systems and that is what I am shooting for. Once I have the window motor running at its peak (knowing it needs a load). I plan to use that requirement to try out other high efficiency generators or lenzless generators and things like that to see what I can get out. Because if the window motor runs very efficiently while driving a low lenz generator I am thinking there could be possibilities. I have the first coil I made with the copper tape, because its flat copper I couldn't bend it around the shaft so the shaft had to be inside the coil witch has me stuck with a timing issue until I get hall sensors, because reeds switch on both poles. but if I take that coil and set it right on top of the other coil (without the other magnet) it becomes a normal generator coil, so if i need to load the motor to reduce current with a load...why not cause the current using the gen as a load? I have multiple taps on the coil so between that and just pulling the generator further away to find the right spot where the power generated loads the motor just right. One last thing, I have not verified this but from what I have read about coil shorting if done correctly it does not load the rotor so I am going to also try using the flat coil on top with a shorting circuit as a secondary output. Also has anyone tried running a window motor from a tesla switch?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    you will just have to experiment.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  4. #24
    Already doing that , I just did not know if I was missing something with the high speed no-charging spot. But im finding the happy point and seeing whats happening I put a cone shaped toroid (from a crt yoke coil) around the shaft outside the motor coil and it will output 6 volts at 25ma without changing the motor speed hardly any. It does not have much wire on it though so I may rewind it with more.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley Malone View Post
    Thanks Tom your always a help. Is that the fastest it will go at any timing because like i said before there is a point where it is very fast but has little torque and won't charge the caps higher than 12 volts, but at a different point it runs slower with lots of torque and charges caps very quickly. so am I supposed to go with the high torque timing and base everything off the top speed from that point.

    As far as it not being overunity...I am fine with that for now but I don't see many people mixing these high efficiency systems and that is what I am shooting for. Once I have the window motor running at its peak (knowing it needs a load). I plan to use that requirement to try out other high efficiency generators or lenzless generators and things like that to see what I can get out. Because if the window motor runs very efficiently while driving a low lenz generator I am thinking there could be possibilities. I have the first coil I made with the copper tape, because its flat copper I couldn't bend it around the shaft so the shaft had to be inside the coil witch has me stuck with a timing issue until I get hall sensors, because reeds switch on both poles. but if I take that coil and set it right on top of the other coil (without the other magnet) it becomes a normal generator coil, so if i need to load the motor to reduce current with a load...why not cause the current using the gen as a load? I have multiple taps on the coil so between that and just pulling the generator further away to find the right spot where the power generated loads the motor just right. One last thing, I have not verified this but from what I have read about coil shorting if done correctly it does not load the rotor so I am going to also try using the flat coil on top with a shorting circuit as a secondary output. Also has anyone tried running a window motor from a tesla switch?
    You can force the reed to fire on south or north only. Place a "biasing" magnet close to the reed, when your timing magnet approaches you'll see how it works 😃
    http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/...ent_magnet.pdf

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by min2oly View Post
    You can force the reed to fire on south or north only. Place a "biasing" magnet close to the reed, when your timing magnet approaches you'll see how it works ��
    http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/...ent_magnet.pdf
    Awesome! I did not know that. thank you for your info. I won't have to worry about the reeds anymore though I got all the parts I need for a hall triggered b/c circuit in the mail today (been waiting about a month) I'm beta matching transistors now and looking for a pcb layout that I saw a while back. But that is very handy for a few other projects im working on.

  7. #27
    I have my bedinin cole circuit about 95% done and im stuck on something. In johns icehouse ciruit there is a voltage divider for the hall sensors...but there are no values. On another circuit i have seen of Johns it has 12 volts straight to the hall. So is there a reason for the resistors in the bipolar circuit other than limiting the power that the hall uses?

  8. #28
    Up and running with the B/C bipolar circuit. I just put power straight to the halls and it works fine. I will look into the resistors later to see if I can save a bit more energy. The charging is way better with this than the reeds, And it seems to run smoother. I may have been adding extra pulses in with the reed, but with the halls everything is nice and precise. Now to start measuring

  9. #29
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    look at your hall sensor data sheet see what voltage and current it likes.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  10. #30
    I did...they take 6ma each at up to 24 volts. i have them hooked straight to 12 volts and it draws 12ma if I don't have the rotor spinning. so it appears that the voltage regulator in them has everything where it needs to be. what throws me off is the circuit has 3020 halls witch is what I am using...and if I add resistors to give the halls what they are already doing themselves it just seems redundant. Like I said though everything runs without them so I will try with them in later test

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