Lindemann attraction motor plus coil shorting.

[Bradley Malone]

I started this build with the idea of using a lindemann attraction motor to get high speed for little energy then use coil shorting methods to harvest energy without slowing down the rotor. A few things have popped into my head that has me going in a different direction so i figured i would put my idea up here and see what people think...or if someone already tried it let me know please.

The first thing i thought about was "precharging" a cap that you add in series with the coil you are going to short. thoughts behind this are.
1. if the current that flows during the short causes a push (T/F no drag) would adding a small extra push turn the shorted coils themselves into the drive?

2. just as charging caps in parrallel and discharging in series compounds the energy and supposedly gives you extra back out ( same idea as JB tapping batteries with keys)
so would the energy out of the shorted coil be a multiple of the normal shortted current and the cap current T/F bigger energy out.

Then the next thought happened. instead of precharging a cap for the short...could you use the pulse from a battery ...so instead of shorting to itself short to the opposite polarity on the drive battery that would be like stacking the cap energy in series with the battery. then use the battery pulse going through the coil to compound the energy as in a bedini ssg. then instead of just letting it charge another cap...because it has the power of the battery behind it use it to pulse the compounded energy into the lindemann causing attraction in it to pull the magnet away from the coil at the same time you are pulsing the coil to repell the magnet and compound its energy with the battery.

this is a simplified circuit showing what i am getting at.


this picture is a sketchup model of the machine. notice that the iron keeper for the attraction motor part is offset from the magnets on the rotor. this would make it so that when the coils below are shorted into the attraction coil it would have room to pull it in. if the magnets on the rotor were aligned with the keeper then the coils would have to be moved so that the keeper is "not" aligned with the attraction core when the shorting pulse happens.


*edit* there are four magnets because that is how i built it for the original idea. because there are only two alignments of the keeper the other two magnets would be wasted unless i do the shorting as i was saying but use them to charge a cap that i dump into the attraction core at 0 and 180.


these are more complicated ideas using the same thing. the c-cores are an idea i have had for a long time. JB uses half of one in one of his patents. i have heard that if you wind bucking coils on a continuos core and put the positives and negatives in parralel you can supposedly use the energy with no lenz effect (have not tested it but if the kromrey can lower lenz when energy is used then other things can to we just have to figure it out.

[Bradley Malone]

small update. I got a simple version working. I only had a few minutes to fiddle untill i broke the attraction stator off so i have to remount it. But what i had was a coil underneath the rotor in series with the attraction coil. I had the polarity so that the negative wire on the bottom coil during the magnet coming in is what i put the positive from the battery on so that it pulses the bottom coil as if its capacitence were a battery in series with the battery and drove the pulse through the coil and the attraction coil. if i kept the bottom coil out it would spin up like the normal motor with the coil away from the magnets basically just being an inductor so the motor runs slower then if i left it out. but when i bring the coil in towards the magnets at the angle i talked about the motor would speed up quite a bit and run smoother... i didn't run it long enough for any solid data but it seemed to take away from the demand on the battery because the transistor still got warm but not near what it does with just running the attraction coil with the series coil away from the magnets. leading me to believe that my idea may be on the right track!

i believe one problem i am going to have is i wound the attraction coil small so it would make high speed off of a 12 volt. But now that i am trying this i think i may need to rewind it with more winds to take advantage of every bit of energy put into it. so fine wire with a bunch of turns would apply more of the force to the keeper but would result in lower rpm wich is fine if it ends up using its own energy to run

[Bradley Malone]

Feel like I am talking to myself but oh well ...got everything back together, i have confirmed that the extra coil at least adds an extra push because the motor speeds up when i put the coil under it as opposed to leaving it out. But i got excited when i hooked up my meter to monitor battery voltage...when i run it just as the attraction motor with the other coil still in series but off to the side the transistor gets hot and the battery voltage drops. but whejn i put the coil under the magnets and get the timing right the voltage on the battery goes back up to its normal voltage as if i am pulling very little power and the transistor doesn't get warm at all. That leads me to think that it is useing the energy from the "shorted coil" to drive the attraction motor. If i were to use just the coil under the magnets ass a pulse motor it would draw energy but when i use it this way it appears to take away from the energy usage while increasing the speed. if anyone is interested i could post videos.

[James_Somewhere_In_Idaho]

Hi Bradley Malone

Of course, you are allowed to "feel" like you are talking to yourself. However, if you go up to the navigation button called "What's New" up in the upper left-hand of the page, and click on it, you should find your posts somewhere in that stream. And, right as I am writing this, your thread has 38 views. Rest assured, most, or at least some of the senior members have viewed your posts. And, if they thought you were not headed in a good direction in your own experiments, they might feel inclined to give you a nudge in another direction. However, even if you were struggling a bit, but headed in the right direction, they would just as well "let you learn as you go." Does that make sense to you? Most threads turn out to be collaborations, that is why they seem more active. Someone might see what you are doing, and decide to join in...that's my take on it, anyway. You seem to be doing good...isn't if fun to experiment???

[Bradley Malone]

I totally get what your saying...i wasn't upset about it just kinda felt funny posting in my own thread to myself
as for the experimenting....YES love every dang minute of it. wish i had my test equipment so i could test more but i don't have it right now so i am stuck with a multy-meter. and even it has a shorted fuse holder cause i blew it so i can only use it to measure voltages so i don't blow the meter. i did one final test tonight before i shut down. i have a diode connected from the collector to battery positive to collect back-emf spikes. i had a lighbulb there that would glow dimly when i ran the motor but when i put a cap in there to check the charge rate it popped straight to 50 volts after the first motor pulse it never would go higher than about 55 but if i discharged it it would charge back seamingly instantly. it was a 330 uf 200volt electrolytic by the way.

[James_Somewhere_In_Idaho]

I was contemplating the best way to use this configuration...and, it seems that Peter L. "inferred" (with raised eyebrows...snicker) during his demo at the last energy conference, that a set-up like this (with a comparator cap-dump and in gen, or common ground mode) would motor right along "for several months" (his raised eyebrows inferring "infinity" would be likely), while it energized several low drag coils...and that he wanted to (paraphrased) "really see how many lights it could light, and light up his cabin"...so, once you get this nailed down a bit better, maybe see how many coils you can get "powering your lights"...something to ponder...

Best regards, James

[Bradley Malone]

are there any videos that you know of from that conference. love to watch every clip i can, especially demos from the people with success. i am going to be taking it apart to beef up the rotor and rewind the attraction stator today and probably another coil if i get the time. I was wondering though would a bifilar wound coil be better for the shorted coils....looking for the energy in the coil itself to be substantial so higher capacitence due to bifilar winding sounds like i just answered my own question


thought i would add this tid bit...just watched a youtube vid of lindemann talking about light. I have understood the "basics" of radiant but never quite got how it did the charging with no current. but the way peter lindemann describes light sounded so close to what happens in radiant chargers ...you shine a laser across a room and you cannot see the light, you can only see what it reflects off of. with radiant you make this spike in the circuit and you can't see it working but it is reflected in the battery so we see just the charge....just as you see just the dot on the wall instead of a line of light.

[James_Somewhere_In_Idaho]

Bradley

I received access to the "Peter Lindemann" demonstration video for purchasing the advanced SG Manual. I think it is part of the deal. In my opinion, just having that video was worth purchasing the book. I think you will find many answers there. Otherwise, this one has some good stuff for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDoz5vgkTOI

and this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SiwHRrNISE

and this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5GfA-czhV0

Peter had a multi-filar coil he built for the demonstration SG that was similar to a standard SG multi-filar coil, except he widened it so the core was as wide as the magnets. He, then, looped the windings back on themselves by soldering the outputs of some strands to the inputs of other strands, until he had just an input and an output strand, which he, then, ran through caps and lit up some big LEDs. the circuit is in the Advanced Manual...

Aaron and Peter have been working hard to help, anyone interested, understand this technology. Sorry, I do not have permission to upload the one that came with the book, but the ones linked above should help you.

Hope that helps, James

[Bradley Malone]

Absolutely understand. I was not sure if it was in something you purchased or a free video....thank you for the information. i'll for sure check out those videos when i get some time.

also...from my understanding "all" bifilar coils have the output of one strand on the input of another....at least when i look at tesla's patents. it seems people call any core with multiple strands bifilar...when it seems to me that a core with 20 wires around it would be like 20 individual normal coils but when you take the output of one individual coil and put it on the other end of the next coil so the electricity winds inwards over and over....that is my understanding of bifilar or trifilar....3 wires around a core normally is just 3 coils. so it it just me that thinks this way? mostly i am asking because i see people say it was a bifilar sg when it had one winding for the trigger and the other for the power so ?!?!?!?

matter of fact i made a pancake coil stack using the idea it has 15 pancake coils stacked with the inner wire coming back out to the next pancakes outer wire and so forth so it would be a 15-filar coil with each strand being a pancake coil. its made using thick wire from a MOT primary and i didn't realize it was aluminum wire until i already took the time to make it. and i can't get my soldering iron to solder the wires so i am stuck looking at it pondering what effects may come.

[James_Somewhere_In_Idaho]

OK, Bradley

One must separate, in their thought processes, the Bedini circuit(s) running the machine, from generator coils.

In regard to the Bedini circuit that runs the machine, the more strands and circuits, the more HV low current pulses happen that charges the output battery. Lets say that coil has 8 strands plus a trigger strand...then, every time a magnet passes the core of that coil (using simplistic terms, not how it actually happens), the core "energizes" and causes the trigger to send an impulse to the transistors causing the other wires to pulse...so each time a magnet passes by, 8-HV low current pulses "spike" and charge the charge battery...times the number of magnets on the wheel...times the RPM of the wheel...equating to the frequency of you charging pulses...are you following me?

Now in regard to the low drag generator coil: Lets take that same coil and eliminate the trigger. Lets also widen the core to match the magnet width. Now, connect the output sides to the input sides of each strand until you just have one input and one output. You now have an 8 wire example of your above references 3-filar. This is what Peter did for the demonstration model. In theory, one could do a bunch of calculations on output, but his thinking was just to get the biggest bang for his buck without having a mile-long wire to wind...in that instance, Think it was 8 wires each 130 feet long, making a generator coil 1040 feet long. The wires were litzed, just like a standard SG coil should be. I do not know if there is a benefit for doing it this way. However, I "feel" there is...if you get what I am saying, since John, Peter, and Aaron, seldom do things without a purpose...are you following me? Sometimes, and especially with John B., one just needs to do what they are doing without explanation, because there are years of phenomenology they do not have time to explain...if you get my drift...and, sometimes, they do what they do, just because it is in good form...

So...I said all that, to say this...when you stated:

...when it seems to me that a core with 20 wires around it would be like 20 individual normal coils but when you take the output of one individual coil and put it on the other end of the next coil so the electricity winds inwards over and over...

You stumbled on to something...Go ahead and pursue that in your build...

Best regards, James

[Bradley Malone]

(*edit* nevermind found the definition)the only part i do not follow is the "litzing" is that the name for twisting the multiple wires into one. if so i have always wondered does the direction you twist them matter...seeing as how the simplest things can cause huge differences.

I was an electronic technician in the navy for 5 years and learned how to troubleshoot like a pro and i understand circuit anatomy pretty well i just lack the ability to put it in plain english and not to mention my typing skills make me seem like a fifth grader ....but none of that matters as long as the info is spread. and also designing something is far different from finding the problem with something broken...(which i would do untill my 2m microscope broke )... haveing said that, i have the pancake coils i talked about wound for a core set up with the magnets in it. I want to take the 15-filar coil on each side near the rotor magnets and use them as my "shorting" coil leaving the back coils to hopefully be able to produce without adding any drag T/F in a perfect world i would use the back coil to maintain a "run cap" instead of having a battery....bunch of stuff to test gonna be a busy next few days!

[Bradley Malone]

i understand what you are saying but if you think of the not-so-simplistic part pulsing the bedini coil opposite of the set up voltage from the incoming magnet aka repulsion mode...it is basically the same thing i am doing but with the bedini the trigger is opposite the power coil so when the pulse happens it shuts itself off so it just makes radiant pulses. with my setup i am doing the same thing except i am allowing the current to flow to attempt to get a bigger current pulse than i supply useing it to push from one coil and use it again in the attraction motor then absorb the radiant just as normal with a diode when the fet opens. I know JB gets upset when people start changing what he said and then go ohh well it doesn't work.but i have built sg's and solid state sg's window motors all the stuff just like he said....so now i am on the "try what they didn't tell you" phase. so i see my machine as a modified sg with a drive instead of a no torque radiant producer...mine should theoretically produce torque and radiant in one deal while recycling as much of the energy as possible for efficiency.

[ZPDM]

Bradley I am also very interested in the progress you make in this area going forward. Really I need to start at the level of what makes a good conventional generator, but would enjoy seeing how someone might skip ahead as well Regarding Litz wire I will give my two cents but be sure to take it with a grain of salt as I haven't a formal electronics background. In the Bedini SSG and similar arrangements you are not engineering for either torque or rotational speed 1) JB I believe, has said his SSG device should be viewed as an oscillator not motor and 2) I have seen a video of him using the same approach with a pendulum - maybe 2-3 pulses per second. In the SSG you are engineering for the radiant spike. What makes for a good spike? a) a large for lack of better word discontinuity, i.e. a big change in power. b) a very abrupt change.

Others who know more than me may correct me here and I will be happy to eat humble pie as the holydays approach however it would seem to me what you would want would be a wire with the least resistance possible (as thick as possible) as this would allow the most abrupt spike and could transmit the most power for the spike. Recall how Tesla apparently noted how a switch thrown on a massive DC generator going into, I don't know complete guess, maybe half inch thick DC copper lines, generated radiant spikes that were literally leaping off the DC lines and even killing some of the electronic technicians of the day. Accepting as valid the very numerous replications of a Bedini SSG type set-up charging multiple batteries from one, the power of the radiant spike must have more energy then the electricity which created the environment for it. Of course it wouldn't if you left the coil on for an hour then turned it off once, but pulsing it like flipping the Niagara falls DC line on and off again repeatedly, yes. Bear with me I'll try and wrap it up and get back to Litz wire. If you made a coil with say 3 winds, it wouldn't generate enough of a focused field to move your rotor which is your timing mechanism. So you basically want the least winds possible that still spins the coil well. I think this is also why Bearden and Bedini mentioned, if I am not mistaken, that if you could just capture it you could power a battleship from this approach. The 7 Litz wire coil that is used in Bedini machines, even from someone without an electronics background, seems to make 0 sense as an electromagnet to drive a rotor, look at the ohms, look at how many amps it draws for the magnetic field it produces. But if that is not its purpose, if instead you want less windings, which slow the abruptness of the spike, and a rapid high power pulse, it is ideal. If you get say 3 units of radiant power from one unit of electricity, who cares if your coil has little resistance and eats amps for the fraction of a second it is turned on.

So there is likely a sweet spot of fewer winds, still spinning the rotor, sharper more powerful radiant. If finding this sweet spot with say 200- 500 winds, you still have a heck of a lot of room left on the coil. Well again if you are getting 3 out for one in, put on another 7 wires each getting 3 out for one in. However, my guess is that if you just layer them on together, the mutual inductance between wires will cancel out the radiant from the extra wires, however, if you Litz them they will behave independently. The last corollary to all this is that when ever you have an abrupt change in electric field (hence also magnetic field) you have a more powerful radiant gating in, hence the Tesla switch, hence a neat idea to pulse a cap. Need to look up fast discharge caps. Here is an idea that just occurred to me then I promise I will shut up. How much of the radiant is your diode actually capturing?? I am thinking Henry Moray and also a pulsing Tesla coil lighting up a fluorescent in a one foot diameter.

Thanks for letting me vent and again I am very much interested in your work with pick-up coils as I am currently engineering for torque, rotational speed, pickup coils with the magnetic ramp rotor set-up I am working on.

[Bradley Malone]

Thank you for your interest i will try to not dissapoint

As for the coils i may need some of that humble pie myself...but from what i have seen its the other way around. i used an arduino to pulse the coil that was on my sg, i was trying to investigate motionless ssg idea by just pulsing the coil with a veriable pulse (duty cycle and frequency). it was simple and straight forward i wanted to pulse the coil at just the right frequency so that as soon as the magnetic field was set up it would disconnect making a back-emf (radiant) spike. the normal coil worked ok but i had a MOT sitting there so i tried the primary wich is thick wire of lower resistance than the secondary. because of the low resistance and impedance in the primary the frequency required to make the largest spike was quite fast and the spike was something like 130 volts. on my o-scope. but when i hooked it up too the secondary with high impedance and resistance the frequency was slower but the spikes were just under 300 volts (296 i believe) so that showed me that the higher the impedance took less energy because the amp meter droped to something like 10 ma. but created a much bigger spike. So it appears that to get the largest spike you want the highest impedance. also i look at radiant energy as a non-reflective electricity wich may be the wrong words but let me explain. walter russell talks about everything being a cubic wavefield with "mirrors" of zero curvature (think of the space between two large planest where the gravity would be equal....once you cross that line you are no longer leaving one planet but are going towards the other) in atom world...if you were to to imagine that nothing ever has the energy to cross the line because it only got its energy from the nucleus flinging it out from the center as does a solar system. so by the time the "electron" gets to the field boundries its energy is completely gone and then gravity takes over and pulls it back into the nucleus to re-create the nucleus again. so when i think of electricity to me i imagine that that boundry is somthing like a capacitor when the "electron" reaches it it charges the opposite side of that boundry opposite the electrons charge wich causes the next atom down the line to reatract in an inward spiral compressing the nucleus to balance the charge. but when the electron is "reflected" back towards its own nucleus so is the charge...so now you have a contracted atom that has extra energy from the reflected charge. once that charge is gone the nucleus would spin out back to its steady state but in doing that it would charges its wave boundry. so to me adding an "electron" from the negative and every time the atom passes on the charge and comes back to steady you add another electron. so the energy has to constantly be passed on and if you want more flow you have to put in a higher charge.

as for radiant. imagine charging both opposite boundries of the wave fields of the atoms in wire...if you are taking the charge on one side wile simultaneously adding charge on the other side it would be as if the "mirrors" are not there and energy would flow freely through the atoms because they dont have to change there state because any positive charge is negated by a negative charge. T/F balance is kept so the atoms never have to change they just pass it on freely.

like the magnet rail guns where you put magnets spaced a little then put ball magnets in front of them...when you release one it is attracted forward smacks the next magnet and stops the next magnet goes...ect. instead radiant would be like putting a vacuum on one end of a tube and an air compresser on the other...the pressure would not see resistance to puch in and the vacuum would have no problem sucking in but the air would be racing through the tube.

sorry for MY rant had a lot on my mind.

EDIT** just to clarify i do not mean putting the positive and negative from a battery on a coil...i mean taking a discharging force and a charging force on the same coil. the balance ignores resistance and is only able to be seen (like a laser accross a room you can't see if going but you see when it smacks into the wall and makes a dot) when we put a cap in the circuit and all of a sudden it has a wall to smack into and display itself.

[Bradley Malone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTnqhwmJUHs forgot i had a video of the motionless sg idea.