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Thread: PCV Modification with Vapor Separation

  1. #1
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Thumbs up PCV Modification with Vapor Separation

    I heard of increasing the vacuum to get better vaporization of the fuel by blocking off the PCV on the manifold but never really took it seriously until spending some time with Ron Hatton of the Gadgetman Groove. He can up to the NW and was one of the presenters at our recent conference - the Bedini-Lindemann 2012 Science & Technology Conference.

    We all know that the key to efficient burning of fuel is to have it vaporized but unfortunately carbs and EFI systems don't introduce vapor into the intake, they squirt a mist, which is not combustible - only the small amount of vapor that off gasses from this mist is combustible.

    There have been vaporization carbs of the past and there are many ways to vaporize fuel by pre-heating it, etc... but increasing the vacuum in the engine is by far the easiest and most effective way. There are ways to have super vaccuum in the engine but some of these I can't discuss right now but the PCV mod is a great place to start.

    For example, we can boil water at room temperature if the pressure is reduced enough by not just having low pressure but by applying a vacuum.

    We can do the same thing to gasoline, diesel, etc... there is a point where every liquid has its own point that it MUST vaporize at when there is x vacuum applied.

    I do have the groove on my throttle body and it works but that is for another thread.

    One of the biggest vacuum "leaks" on an engine is the PCV valve since it is basically a wide open port to the crankcase so there can't be much vacuum in the manifold because of this.

    So, if we remove the valve or cap it off, we seal one of the biggest vacuum losses there is, which will increase the vacuum and will therefore increase the amount of fuel that is vaporized for better efficiency. Instead of slipping anything over my PCV valve to cover up the hole, I removed the whole thing and put in a pipe thread plug with a bit of Teflon tape on the threads.

    IMG_2716.jpg


    And the hose that did direct the blow-by to the PCV valve, there is usually a Y on the end - one end goes to the PCV valve and the other end goes to the air intake box before the throttle body. So, you can just block off the one that went to the PCV valve by plugging the hole with whatever.

    IMG_2717.jpg

    The blow-by is still ducted to the air intake box so you aren't venting it to the environment and are not defeating the emissions - all the blow-by is being recycled back to the intake. You're actually reducing emissions when you increase the efficiency because more fuel is burning.

    Now if you want to take this to the next level, remove the hose that goes to the air intake with the blow by and run it through a vapor separator and the output of the this goes back to the air intake box before the throttle body. The vapor separator uses a process called ADSORPTION (not absorption) to pull the dirty particles out of the blow-by when it comes in contact with the silica gel bead filter.

    IMG_2718.jpgIMG_2719.jpgIMG_2720.jpg

    adsorption (d-sôrpshn) The process by which molecules of a substance, such as a gas or a liquid, collect on the surface of another substance, such as a solid. The molecules are attracted to the surface but do not enter the solid's minute spaces as in absorption. Some drinking water filters consist of carbon cartridges that adsorb contaminants. Compare absorption.



    adsorption Gas molecules are attracted to the surface of activated charcoal but are not absorbed by it.

    The sludge will condense on those beads and will drip to the bottom of the container for easy disposal. That means you are only ducting purified blow-by vapor back to the intake. That will allow your oil to last longer, keep the intake cleaner without all that buildup, etc... and by having higher quality blow by vapor without the heavy particles, you have a better burnable vapor that further increases your efficiency, reduces emissions and extends engine/oil life.

    You can see Elmer W. Bush's patents on the blow-by vapor separators: https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&...mer+W.+Bush%22

    The name brand "Condensator" is very expensive but you can make your own at very low cost - the old patents on this are long expired so anyone can do anything they want with this concept. There are many companies making their own versions and some use copper BB's as the filter media but I use the gel beads. I bought a gallon of silica gel at the pet store - it is used as kitty litter. Was about $15 - and will make hundreds of filters. Also, that silica gel isn't round so it won't go rolling everywhere if spilled - it is salt rock shaped so won't roll around.

    Normally, you take the hose from the blow by going to the PCV valve and put it through a vapor separator and back to the PCV valve, but you haven't addressed the vacuum loss issue. Combining the PCV mod with the vapor separator, you get a synergy.

    Mine is bigger than I need but I just used what I already had on hand. I used a pre-sediment filter in reverse (output is input and input is output - that is how you make the input go down the center) as the container and nothing but hoses and clamps. I wanted a rugged high quality one and not some flimsy plastic junk. You could make one out of a plastic empty peanut butter jar if you want - up to you.

    NOTE: Now another thing if you have electronic fuel injection is that you really need to check your idle air intake because that is another hidden leak. There is a little electronically controlled valve that opens up enough to let enough air in to idle the engine. If your foot is off the gas and the throttle plate is closed, it has to get air from somewhere and that is where. Well, these aren't on the maintenance schedule (probably on purpose), but they have a life of about 40k miles according to Ron Hatton. In any case, my Groove and PCV mod didn't do anything until we restricted the hose where it gets air from and suddenly the results cranked up. That means that the diaphragm or whatever is not properly closing off when the foot is on the throttle so that represents a leak. If you do the Groove mod, PCV mod, etc... and don't get results, make sure to check if your idle air intake is properly closing off under throttle. So of course by addressing this issue, you will be able to achieve higher vacuum.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  2. #2
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    vapor separator

    This is how the vapor separator works.

    vaporseparator.jpg

    Usually, I have some clear water and gas at the bottom - several tablespoons and that gives off good vapor that gets sucked into the intake.

    There is NO sludge in the bottom. The beads are not getting darker. So with these mods and the groove, I'm obviously getting very clean burning
    since the condensed sludge isn't increasing.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #3
    Hi Aaron, This is some great info. I am getting ready to perform all of these mods on a test vehicle, with the addition of a plasma ignition system. I will do one item at a time and measure the results before performing the next mod.

    This is actually the first time I have heard of this particular PCV Modification, other than just blocking it. Your mod really intrigues me. Any way you can get the Attachment links to work in your first post?

    Thanks,

    Daryl

  4. #4
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Hi Daryl,

    I don't know what the deal is with the images. Sometimes it shows me a thumbnail and sometimes it says "Attachment xxx". But if I click on that, it does open the thumbnail. In any case, the post was edited with the pics again so hopefully you can see them.

    People have reported benefits from the "Condensator" for years even if they don't do anything else. "Scrubbing" the blow-by makes it more pure and therefore more burnable so I don't see why it doesn't. Results will vary but one thing I can absolutely say 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt - all that gunk the silica is capturing is not getting back to the intake for sure and that absolutely is a good thing and will extend oil life, etc...

    With the PCV block-off mod, then the vacuum can get a bit higher with purified blow-by so I can see nothing but synergy. I did this in conjunction with the Gadgetman Groove so don't know what does what but there absolutely is a difference in performance and mileage. I'll find my spreadsheet and will post some results in a different thread.

    In any case, this Condensator has been used successfully for years - especially on diesels.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  5. #5
    Works like a charm now. Thanks Aaron.

  6. #6
    Hello Aaron,

    I just recently joined however I was looking over this thread and had a quick question in regards to the configuration you are utilizing. Do you find any form of consistent vacuum being generated at the air intake back through your setup? I ask as the PCV valve does serve a purpose(and it does in fact not remain open constantly during engine operation provided your positive crankcase ventilation valve is in proper operating condition) and if you are not pulling a vacuum at the valve cover over time you could cause your oil to become laiden with acidic qualities and fuel remnants that will damage engine bearings over time shortening the life of the engine. I may have mis-read this but from what I understand you are essentially running a direct hose from the intake manifold where the PCV valve used to originally connect into the air box along with running a separate line using the separator to the air box as well? Using this configuration do you also find your engine has a tendency to idle at a higher RPM(due to partially bypassing the map or mass airflow sensor) with a direct line to the intake or did you connect the manifold PCV vent in between the map/maf sensor and the throttle body(so the sensor can detect the additional airflow volume being pulled into the manifold)?

  7. #7
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl Hansen View Post
    Works like a charm now. Thanks Aaron.
    Very cool!

    My friend Victor has a mid 2000 Scion and had the groove in his throttle body since the conference and did achieve some gains. The PCV was never modified so he didn't get more benefit.

    My other friend Jeff and I just did it last week and he is already getting 2 extra mpg per gallon that he could never get before, which is 20 extra miles per tank just by adding the PCV mod.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #8
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vircon View Post
    if you are not pulling a vacuum at the valve cover over time you could cause your oil to become laiden with acidic qualities and fuel remnants that will damage engine bearings over time shortening the life of the engine.

    I may have mis-read this but from what I understand you are essentially running a direct hose from the intake manifold where the PCV valve used to originally connect into the air box along with running a separate line using the separator to the air box as well? Using this configuration do you also find your engine has a tendency to idle at a higher RPM(due to partially bypassing the map or mass airflow sensor) with a direct line to the intake or did you connect the manifold PCV vent in between the map/maf sensor and the throttle body(so the sensor can detect the additional airflow volume being pulled into the manifold)?
    If the blow by is connected to the air intake on the front side of the throttle body (which they're usually connected there as a secondary connection), that blow by is still being pulled from the crankcase back to the intake. So the point is not to defeat the need to reburn the blow by, but to do it so there will be higher vacuum to help vaporize more of the fuel at the same time.

    The blow by from the crank on my car for example (Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT boxer engine) - Crankcase > Y splitter hose (one to PCV on manifold and other to air intake before throttle body). Therefore, capping off the PCV still leaves the blow by hose from the crank to the air intake - the emissions system is therefore NOT defeated and the blow by still gets routed to the intake to get reburned.

    Actually, my car idles from 450-550 rpm juts fine, literally that low. I have a smaller restriction tube stuck into the idle air intake input hose. That is because the idle air intake is also another vacuum leak if it does not properly close after the engine is warmed up. After I did that, my groove modification results jumped way up. After this was restricted, the computer showed the fuel trims INSTANTLY dropped.

    On my friend's cars, there is no increase in the RPM with the PCV mod - at least not that we noticed.

    I also have my blow by filtered through the silica gel beads before it goes back to the intake so all my blow by is purified vapor with no heavy particles.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl Hansen View Post
    Hi Aaron, This is some great info. I am getting ready to perform all of these mods on a test vehicle, with the addition of a plasma ignition system. I will do one item at a time and measure the results before performing the next mod.

    This is actually the first time I have heard of this particular PCV Modification, other than just blocking it. Your mod really intrigues me. Any way you can get the Attachment links to work in your first post?

    Thanks,

    Daryl
    Hello Daryl,

    I have also been thinking about and researching plasma ignition systems. Are you building it yourself or have you found a system that intrigues you more than the others? Will you be using a different fuel mixture or just running on regular gas? Thanks!
    http://lightcoalition.org/ my site for Walter Russell info...wip

  10. #10

    Plasma Ignition

    I'm using a commercial product: EcoIgnition - Earth friendly performance

    You could build it yourself using Aaron's Ignition Secrets as a guide: Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami | Plasma Ignition

    I'm just lazy

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