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Thread: PCV Modification with Vapor Separation

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  1. #1
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Thumbs up PCV Modification with Vapor Separation

    I heard of increasing the vacuum to get better vaporization of the fuel by blocking off the PCV on the manifold but never really took it seriously until spending some time with Ron Hatton of the Gadgetman Groove. He can up to the NW and was one of the presenters at our recent conference - the Bedini-Lindemann 2012 Science & Technology Conference.

    We all know that the key to efficient burning of fuel is to have it vaporized but unfortunately carbs and EFI systems don't introduce vapor into the intake, they squirt a mist, which is not combustible - only the small amount of vapor that off gasses from this mist is combustible.

    There have been vaporization carbs of the past and there are many ways to vaporize fuel by pre-heating it, etc... but increasing the vacuum in the engine is by far the easiest and most effective way. There are ways to have super vaccuum in the engine but some of these I can't discuss right now but the PCV mod is a great place to start.

    For example, we can boil water at room temperature if the pressure is reduced enough by not just having low pressure but by applying a vacuum.

    We can do the same thing to gasoline, diesel, etc... there is a point where every liquid has its own point that it MUST vaporize at when there is x vacuum applied.

    I do have the groove on my throttle body and it works but that is for another thread.

    One of the biggest vacuum "leaks" on an engine is the PCV valve since it is basically a wide open port to the crankcase so there can't be much vacuum in the manifold because of this.

    So, if we remove the valve or cap it off, we seal one of the biggest vacuum losses there is, which will increase the vacuum and will therefore increase the amount of fuel that is vaporized for better efficiency. Instead of slipping anything over my PCV valve to cover up the hole, I removed the whole thing and put in a pipe thread plug with a bit of Teflon tape on the threads.

    IMG_2716.jpg


    And the hose that did direct the blow-by to the PCV valve, there is usually a Y on the end - one end goes to the PCV valve and the other end goes to the air intake box before the throttle body. So, you can just block off the one that went to the PCV valve by plugging the hole with whatever.

    IMG_2717.jpg

    The blow-by is still ducted to the air intake box so you aren't venting it to the environment and are not defeating the emissions - all the blow-by is being recycled back to the intake. You're actually reducing emissions when you increase the efficiency because more fuel is burning.

    Now if you want to take this to the next level, remove the hose that goes to the air intake with the blow by and run it through a vapor separator and the output of the this goes back to the air intake box before the throttle body. The vapor separator uses a process called ADSORPTION (not absorption) to pull the dirty particles out of the blow-by when it comes in contact with the silica gel bead filter.

    IMG_2718.jpgIMG_2719.jpgIMG_2720.jpg

    adsorption (d-sôrpshn) The process by which molecules of a substance, such as a gas or a liquid, collect on the surface of another substance, such as a solid. The molecules are attracted to the surface but do not enter the solid's minute spaces as in absorption. Some drinking water filters consist of carbon cartridges that adsorb contaminants. Compare absorption.



    adsorption Gas molecules are attracted to the surface of activated charcoal but are not absorbed by it.

    The sludge will condense on those beads and will drip to the bottom of the container for easy disposal. That means you are only ducting purified blow-by vapor back to the intake. That will allow your oil to last longer, keep the intake cleaner without all that buildup, etc... and by having higher quality blow by vapor without the heavy particles, you have a better burnable vapor that further increases your efficiency, reduces emissions and extends engine/oil life.

    You can see Elmer W. Bush's patents on the blow-by vapor separators: https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&...mer+W.+Bush%22

    The name brand "Condensator" is very expensive but you can make your own at very low cost - the old patents on this are long expired so anyone can do anything they want with this concept. There are many companies making their own versions and some use copper BB's as the filter media but I use the gel beads. I bought a gallon of silica gel at the pet store - it is used as kitty litter. Was about $15 - and will make hundreds of filters. Also, that silica gel isn't round so it won't go rolling everywhere if spilled - it is salt rock shaped so won't roll around.

    Normally, you take the hose from the blow by going to the PCV valve and put it through a vapor separator and back to the PCV valve, but you haven't addressed the vacuum loss issue. Combining the PCV mod with the vapor separator, you get a synergy.

    Mine is bigger than I need but I just used what I already had on hand. I used a pre-sediment filter in reverse (output is input and input is output - that is how you make the input go down the center) as the container and nothing but hoses and clamps. I wanted a rugged high quality one and not some flimsy plastic junk. You could make one out of a plastic empty peanut butter jar if you want - up to you.

    NOTE: Now another thing if you have electronic fuel injection is that you really need to check your idle air intake because that is another hidden leak. There is a little electronically controlled valve that opens up enough to let enough air in to idle the engine. If your foot is off the gas and the throttle plate is closed, it has to get air from somewhere and that is where. Well, these aren't on the maintenance schedule (probably on purpose), but they have a life of about 40k miles according to Ron Hatton. In any case, my Groove and PCV mod didn't do anything until we restricted the hose where it gets air from and suddenly the results cranked up. That means that the diaphragm or whatever is not properly closing off when the foot is on the throttle so that represents a leak. If you do the Groove mod, PCV mod, etc... and don't get results, make sure to check if your idle air intake is properly closing off under throttle. So of course by addressing this issue, you will be able to achieve higher vacuum.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  2. #2
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    vapor separator

    This is how the vapor separator works.

    vaporseparator.jpg

    Usually, I have some clear water and gas at the bottom - several tablespoons and that gives off good vapor that gets sucked into the intake.

    There is NO sludge in the bottom. The beads are not getting darker. So with these mods and the groove, I'm obviously getting very clean burning
    since the condensed sludge isn't increasing.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #3
    Hi Aaron, This is some great info. I am getting ready to perform all of these mods on a test vehicle, with the addition of a plasma ignition system. I will do one item at a time and measure the results before performing the next mod.

    This is actually the first time I have heard of this particular PCV Modification, other than just blocking it. Your mod really intrigues me. Any way you can get the Attachment links to work in your first post?

    Thanks,

    Daryl

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl Hansen View Post
    Hi Aaron, This is some great info. I am getting ready to perform all of these mods on a test vehicle, with the addition of a plasma ignition system. I will do one item at a time and measure the results before performing the next mod.

    This is actually the first time I have heard of this particular PCV Modification, other than just blocking it. Your mod really intrigues me. Any way you can get the Attachment links to work in your first post?

    Thanks,

    Daryl
    Hello Daryl,

    I have also been thinking about and researching plasma ignition systems. Are you building it yourself or have you found a system that intrigues you more than the others? Will you be using a different fuel mixture or just running on regular gas? Thanks!
    http://lightcoalition.org/ my site for Walter Russell info...wip

  5. #5

    Plasma Ignition

    I'm using a commercial product: EcoIgnition - Earth friendly performance

    You could build it yourself using Aaron's Ignition Secrets as a guide: Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami | Plasma Ignition

    I'm just lazy

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Daryl Hansen View Post
    I'm using a commercial product: EcoIgnition - Earth friendly performance

    You could build it yourself using Aaron's Ignition Secrets as a guide: Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami | Plasma Ignition

    I'm just lazy
    haha thanks! I will check into Aaron's guide.
    http://lightcoalition.org/ my site for Walter Russell info...wip

  7. #7
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Ok - cool! Post a diagram if you can of whatever you wind up doing. Could help someone with the same setup.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #8
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    On my car for example, the blow-by goes to a Y splitter. One side went to the PCV on the manifold and the other side went to the intake like yours (before the throttle body of course).
    So I just plugged the manifold and plugged the tube from the Y splitter that went to the PCV. So the blow-by only has one exit and that is to the intake air box.

    If you have the booster going straight to the PCV, I wouldn't do anything to it unless you knew more about the whole setup.

    I really haven't seen those setups. Being that the PCV is a one way valve that only opens in the direction towards the manifold in order to suck the blow-by into it, I'm not sure why any booster or anything else would be connected to it.

    Also, PCV's fail because of gunk building up, etc... and if a brake booster relied on vacuum from the PCV, that would be a serious safety hazard if suddenly your booster had no vacuum due to a clogged PCV. Would not be a fun surprise. I doubt any auto manufacturer would use the PCV for anything other than simply sucking the blow-by into it. I'm not an auto tech either but this is my best guess so far.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  9. #9
    Got it Aaron!
    I think I know what to do now. You description was clear and coupled with your initial post descriptions, I think I can make it work. We are talking about the same thing in different ways...different perspectives. I play around with my truck and do some testing and see what happens.
    Thanks for taking the time to share and clarify...I love this kind of stuff!

  10. #10
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
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    Mark,

    The vacuum for the brakes should actually be higher and the brakes should work better. Not sure if you can tell the difference, but the brake vacuum would be increased too.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

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