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Thread: Beta Matching!

  1. #11
    hey joster

    i use these bd243C
    not to expensive and they work just fine
    but watch your trigger seting on the pot
    bad triggering burns them so when timing watch the temerature

    i run them on a single coil at 19 volt and 22 degrees celcius
    on the multi coil they sit at 19 degrees with 12 volt input

    regards
    weasel

  2. #12
    Joster,

    I will start with some history that I know of. Back in time when transistors were invented the technology had been such that they were point-contact. Highly non-linear, going negative as well and as far as I know mostly made of germanium. A great breakthrough and alternative to the vacuum tubes in many areas but their non linear behavior had been considered not good in some electronics. Later the silicon had begun to replace the germanium and with the technology improving the junctions were layered. This had led to more linear results, improving electronics and making them more reliable, higher power transistors had appeared as well. There are fights on some forums between audio guys about the "germanium sound" versus "silicon sound". Some people prefer the qualities the germanium gives to audio in different devices.
    John Bedini witnessing all the development from the birth of the transistors and all the changes during the years till now, working in the semiconductor industry and doing transistors knows very well what to look for in a device. I remember having seen a post of him recommending 2N3055H transistor from a certain manufacturer for use in audio amplifiers, meaning if you get the same model from another manufacturer it is not the same already.
    He has been testing many transistors and if he chose MJL21194 for the SG that is for a very good reason. If there was a cheaper alternative to it he would have told us.
    MJLs are high power and in some of Johns videos you can see they go negative as well when switched off meaning they show non-linearity. With the radiant energy we want the transistors to do that and the more it does the better the results. If I am not wrong it helps the transistor to stay colder. Not all the transistors go negative.

    Having in mind that compare it with the cheap devices you are thinking of.
    MJE13009 needs 9 volts on the base to fully open. MJL21194 needs just 5.
    MJE13009 could handle around 100W of power dissipation while MJL21194 around 200W. This means if you drive both transistors with the same power the MJL21194 will be way colder. Add to this that it goes negative and this will give you even better results.
    We do not want heat in our devices but in Solid State SG the transistor switches very fast and sometimes it will get hot. Heat means loss of energy, and can degrade the transistor's junctions in time if not cooled properly.
    It is not an accident what ErikN said about the SG circuit being designed as an audio amplifier. This is how it senses the output impedance and when it is of a sulphated battery the transistors may start to develop heat at some point. I have had SS SG that would run cold to the touch for hours and than at some point it would get crazy hot. The transistor is not alive anymore and that was a lesson for me. In EFTV #2 you can see one of John's big SS SG circuits (I think that is what it is) and all the transistors are on a big heatsink.


    Saying all this I hope that you and everybody who would cross this thread will understand the importance of the use of MJL21194.


    I had at one time built a small SS SG done with MJE13007 running Leds and it was ok but still 9 volts on the base ... not good. I tried to charge a battery with this oscillator and in less then a minute the transistor got so hot that I turned it off to save its life. I have some medium power russian transistors that need just 2 volts on the base. I am planning to try them with LEDs or small batteries as I hope to get some efficiency with them.

    I have done many times the mistake to think that going for the cheap will save me money and later when I see I am not getting the results I want I go for the right thing and end up spending more money than if I would have bought the right one in the first place. Be it a multimeter, transistor or whatever else. You do not have to do that mistake with the transistors now.

    My advice is go for the right transistor - the MJL21194.

    Something else to have in mind is that there are lots of fake transistors out there including MJLs. Especially at online shops.
    So if you consider all this TeslagenX saves you all the hassle plus matching to 1 percent is pretty impressive and big time saver. This shows you the devotion the guys put in their efforts to help the others get good results. I doubt anybody at any online shop would do it for you to that level if they offer matching at all. Buying from TeslagenX you can be sure also you have originals and not fakes.
    At the end it seems to me in your case it would be cheaper to get 4 matched MJLs and have better results than buying higher count low level transistors that would not get close to what MJL21194 would do.


    You are right in thinking about matching resistors and diodes also. This is the way to get the best results.



    Regards
    Lman

  3. #13
    Lman,

    Thanks so much for all the info...lots of food for thought!

    What do you mean by the transistor going negative? I just figure it is either on or off....

  4. #14
    hello lman

    just a snap question for future development
    here in europe the MJL21194 is no longer available. so i suppose it will be a problem in america in the future
    here they offer now the MJL21194G as other option
    i believe the only manufacturer is ON semiconductors

    its not exactly the same but do they react the same way?

    kind regards
    stephan and serge

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Joster View Post
    Lman,

    Thanks so much for all the info...lots of food for thought!

    What do you mean by the transistor going negative? I just figure it is either on or off....

    Joster,

    The reason I was telling some history is that some semiconductor materials can exhibit negative resistance. The devices in the past were doing that more easy than those we have today if they do at all.

    There is a DVD where John Bedini explains these things and showing some unique things.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTpqx620Am4
    I use to think of it as "the rock" DVD as he is showing what can be done with a piece of a rock. On Energenx channel as well John posted several videos of a small motor that he runs on that rock. Pulling negative energy.

    Transistor being on or of is not like a switch on the wall. Do not forget that the junctions inside resists before they begin to open. But this is the usual positive resistance.The MJL in the SG when switched off will go negative meaning it will pull some negative energy for a tiny fraction of the ... micro or nanosecond. And that cools down the transistor as the negative energy is cold plus adds to your efficiency. I think this has been discussed here on the forum or I read about it on the Energetic forum.
    This is just a part of the enormous research John Bedini has done and share with us. And it is why he insists and repeats often that we should build the things as he say at least the first time.


    Regards
    Lman
    Last edited by Lman; 10-18-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    the G version and the non G are the same... all the same specs.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by wild weasel View Post
    hello lman

    just a snap question for future development
    here in europe the MJL21194 is no longer available. so i suppose it will be a problem in america in the future
    here they offer now the MJL21194G as other option
    i believe the only manufacturer is ON semiconductors

    its not exactly the same but do they react the same way?

    kind regards
    stephan and serge

    Hi wild weasel,

    The G letter shows that it is a Pb free or in other words there is no Lead used. More environment friendly as electronics is a big pollution factor worldwide.
    I have seen some Motorola MJLs but I do not know if they still produce them.

    Lman

    P.S. Heh Tom C has been quicker on the answer
    Last edited by Lman; 10-18-2014 at 10:39 AM.

  8. #18
    Hi,

    I am trying to match transistors I am using MJL21194 I have built the device as per the manual using a 500ma meter as recommended but the most deflection I can get is 80 to 90 ma. there is a sweet spot with the pot that gives that. Is there any adjustment in the circuit that will give m e more deflection on the meter?

    Peth

  9. #19
    Hi,

    I have had no feedback on this yet the only thing I can think of is to replace the 500ma meter with a 100ma meter. How does this effect the overall matching of the transistors?

    Peth

  10. #20
    Hi peth

    I have not built that circuit. However, they say one needs to go through their transistors, once to find the lowest value one (making that the benchmark transistor), and then marking the rest based on the higher values. They do not say that there will be a large variation in readings. I imagine, after not having seen the circuit diagram you are using, that one can simply change out a resistor and/or capacitor value to achieve what you are looking for--though I do not know that for sure.

    That being said, I went a simpler route using one of the many cheap transistor testers out on the market. Those typically display two numbers: hFE (current gain or amplification factor)--which mine were typically between 41-54, and VF (forward voltage)--which mine were typically between 541-551. Most people only match forward voltage. I matched for both in my builds.

    Hope that helps
    Best regards

    James, somewhere in Idaho

    “So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.”

    ~ Padmé Amidala ~

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