How realistic is a 1 hour charge/discharge COP test method

[jelloir]

Ever since I read John K's post below I have become somewhat obsessed about it.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post15157

However after months of tweaking, changing magnets and spacing, changing wheels, changing resistance, conditioning batteries, testing, testing, tweaking and more testing I'm afraid I have only really managed about .65 COP and certainly haven't managed to charge a battery in 1 hour using equal charge and discharge amps.

I am just wondering how realistic this testing method is for mortals such as myself. I am feeling pretty frustrated and often walk away from my SSG grumbling to myself only to come back to it hours later to keep chasing this COP nirvana.

I feel as though I've hit a wall and cannot think what else to try to increase my COP.

James

[BobZilla]

I feel as though I've hit a wall and cannot think what else to try to increase my COP.

Have you played with generator mode? If not you should give it a try.

I have achieved one to one in mode one in the past but it IS hard to dial in. I think the main reason is because in that mode you are not using the forward current on the charge battery. It charges your coil and shorts back to the source. The charge battery receives the high voltage spike in the backwards polarity path but the forward current is only producing the magnetic field to drive the wheel.

Gen mode uses all of the energy to feed both the source and the charge because they become parallel and you have the induction voltage of the magnets/coil interaction.

[Yaro1776]

James,

You have hit the wall that many of us have experienced to date with the basic mode of SSG operation. Truly a major source of frustration to the beginning experimenter. Your COP numbers reflect similar results - question becomes "what am I doing incorrectly?" BobZ mentions the tuning of the SSG, well I will mention the implicit come-on that a 1:1 COP is possible with the SSG, however the caveat here is obviously for "one skilled in the art." Irrespective of the goal of 1:1 COP, I have spent many hours learning about a truly fascinating technology - so "Nada" for being skilled in the art... Why chase a dream when the knowledge path opens up to you.

My SSG experience has progressed and at times it has pushed to 0.70 COP with intimations of beyond possibilities. Not obsessed with this! However I am obsessed with the details of the charging process.

John K mentions using 15.3v as the upper charge limit for the 1 hour COP test. I have found that the upper charge value threshold is variable and dependent on the charge amperages from the SSG configuration. For example, if one is operating at,say, 0.5 amps for charge (to charge battery) and has a steady charge voltage - one can change the input charge by varying the base resistance with a pot and jack up the charge voltage. This apparent change in charge voltage potential seems great, but wait! Careful testing will show that the 15.3 volt shutdown threshold has now been increased to higher value - tried it many times and have the data... If the shutdown threshold is not increased then the total charge is less and may reflect in your COP numbers.

So the simple solution to COP is not really that simple. Patrick's (Min2oly) method may be more realistic taking into account all the variables and extending the time frame to smooth out the running (operational) changes/fluctuations. Lowering the threshold appears to be very reasonable. Plus the charge rate appears to diminish a bit as the voltage threshold is approached - just my observation.

BobZ's comments and thoughts about using a strobe/timing light are spot on, very useful when combined with the interaction of charge voltage, amperage and RPM. Very useful!!! The transition zone between changes in the number of charging spikes is very intriguing. This approach has boosted my numbers and opened up other avenues of query.

Our failures are part of the positive learning experience. Question the status quo.

Yaro

[jelloir]

Thanks Guys,

I have tried Gen mode but never did COP testing with it. My problem is that even if I get 1:1 with Gen mode I still have Radiant mode monkey on my back and with my never give up attitude it eventually gets to me and I end up posting a "frustrated" thread on the forum

Yaro, I understand your statements regarding the upper charge limit. My take on that is the "current overhead" which is proportionate to the amp draw from the primary. If your pulling more current from the primary you are pushing more current to the secondary and therefore the upper charge limit increases like you say, the same can be said for points M and O in the charge curve, the radiant spike part of the charge is like a virtual hidden line following the curve made by the current. My recent tests have been to increase the coil gap (up to about 12mm) to reduce the amp draw and the time the transistor turns on which has provided some interesting results. Part of what got me on to that was the timing light thread you guys were chatting on so thanks.

I will continue on and just needed a little vent I think haha. I really want to test other batteries but the don't come cheap.

[BobZilla]

You know it has always been a bit of an issues to measure and prove OU. Some claim to get it but then you have to scrutinized how they have arrived at that conclusion and if their method is accurate.

Mr. Bedini never focuses on OU anyway, I'm not even sure he has ever claimed it. That was not the point of this machine. Some discovered early on that when they added it all up including the mechanical that their machines were slightly OU but that is not the point of it.

The machine is meant to demonstrate the presence and behavior of "radiant" energy. It is a device for harnessing and studying it. A stepping stone, not a destination. I personally have learned a ton from the basic setup and applied what I learned to other incarnations of the technology to do some really amazing things and I think that is the point of it really, it is an introduction to the energy form.

If you look at what Mr. Bedini would point out in the early Energy vacuum series video's he is not talking about OU. He talks about the work of the conditioned batteries. Restoring old used up ones for one thing, taking good ones and increasing their capacity way beyond the manufacture rating! That is the magic of the energy. It is MUCH denser than a charge you get from normal current charging, it does not destroy the batteries as normal systems do.

Harvest some solar as your source, use that to capture radiant energy via your machines, put that in your storage batteries, enjoy the benefits of a stronger denser charge to run your loads and know that your batteries will last MANY times longer than they *should* and you can store more energy with less of them.

I think to many people fiddle around with this and never actually observe in real world conditions how much better the ENERGY is by comparison to a normal system. Don't just run your machine to run your machine, make it practical, put it to work!

Keep chasing the OU dragon, we all do but think about what you can already benefit from using this technology.

[jelloir]

Bob, Yaro, After pushing on for the last 2 months and trying anything to get 1:1 I have "sorta" gotten over my obsession and have taken Bob's advise and started rejuvenating some Golf Cart batteries. I dabbled with rejuvenating these a while back but my COP obsession kept getting in the way.

What's interesting is I hooked up a Trojan T-875 (8V 170AH) and noticed the draw current on the primary at 1.6A and the current to the secondary at 1.3A! I realize current is not what to look at, but when COP testing with some new 12V batteries I noticed the output current was about half the input e.g. 1.6A out, .80A in (and variations therein based on changes I was making). I'm guessing this has something to do with the impedance/voltage/size of the T-875? Or maybe my 12V test batteries were crap!? I really hope the latter...

I have 6 T-875's and if I can rejuvenate them I'll have 340AH for a 24V TST5 based solar system I'm planning, I may be able to pickup another 6 for 680AH as well.

Running SSG's is fun. Pic for fun



James

[Branch Gordon]

I completely agree with you. I'll probably still do cycles on the wheel and try to get it tuned...but having the solid state SG doing actual work on big batteries that I can use at home...and saving me money in the process....that's good stuff.

Your build looks great btw.

Bob, Yaro, After pushing on for the last 2 months and trying anything to get 1:1 I have "sorta" gotten over my obsession and have taken Bob's advise and started rejuvenating some Golf Cart batteries. I dabbled with rejuvenating these a while back but my COP obsession kept getting in the way.

What's interesting is I hooked up a Trojan T-875 (8V 170AH) and noticed the draw current on the primary at 1.6A and the current to the secondary at 1.3A! I realize current is not what to look at, but when COP testing with some new 12V batteries I noticed the output current was about half the input e.g. 1.6A out, .80A in (and variations therein based on changes I was making). I'm guessing this has something to do with the impedance/voltage/size of the T-875? Or maybe my 12V test batteries were crap!? I really hope the latter...

I have 6 T-875's and if I can rejuvenate them I'll have 340AH for a 24V TST5 based solar system I'm planning, I may be able to pickup another 6 for 680AH as well.

Running SSG's is fun. Pic for fun

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3994[/ATTACH]

James