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Thread: Linear Regulator Amplifier Experiments

  1. #1

    Linear Regulator Amplifier Experiments

    Hi All,

    Check out the vid if you like! any tips would be excellent

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MNZ...=youtube_gdata

    Cheers,

    Joe

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    just watched,

    you said I am only getting the cap to charge to 16 volts.. then you said I have 16 volts on the power supply. why would you expect more from the cap then you are inputing? or are you just wondering why you don't have 16 on the output?

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  3. #3
    Tom C,

    He does not mention the voltage on the supply. The cap charges to 16V, and 16V into the regulator is what he said. I am assuming he is supplying the SS oscillator with 12V.

    Joster,

    What about the Beta Multiplier ? What are the resistor and the zener doing right now? As far as I got it the resistor and zener must be a reference point for the multiplier.

    Regards
    Lman

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    at 1:22 he says the voltage I have going into the regulator is 16 ............... at 1:08 he says the cap is only charging to 16 volt. when he says this he is measuring the input voltage to the cap at the diodes. I am trying to understand if he thinks there should be more at the input.

    and yes there should be a Darlington pair in there.

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  5. #5
    Hi Tom C and Lman,

    Sorry for the confusion here. I am wondering why the cap is only charging to 16V becuase it is connected to the output of the ss sg which should charge to cap up and up and up which is what it does when I disconnect the rest of the circuit and just leave the diodes and cap across the ss sg output.

    My understanding is the the two 15V series zener diodes will control the cap voltage and keep it at 30V. That's why I'm not sure why I am only seeing 16V thereacross the cap.

    Yes the ss sg is powered by a 4.2A 12VDC Supply that plugs into mains power and draws 17W.

    As far as the resistor and zeners all I know is the total voltage across them is 16V. There is 1, 510 Ohm and 2 15V zener diodes in series and then all that is in parralal across the filter cap. Again, I would think this shold be somewhere around 30V becuase the cap is going to want to keep charging up from the output of the ss sg and the zeners will clamp that down to 30V??

    I'm not really sure about the beta multiplier other than there is one inside the lm317 but only good to 1.5A. At this point it would be great to get it working even at that amperage.

    It would seem that what John describes in DVD 37 is basically what is in the lm317 but his circuit can handle alot more current, has an adjustable battery float point and indicator leds. Also, I still am not sure how this "DC amp" plays in. Is that "direct-coupled" or "direct current amp"??

    I have a long way to go to get this circuit mastered but hey I was right here 6 months ago trying to figure out the cap dump comparator circuit and now have that completely figured out.

    Any tips would be excellent!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    I was a little confused about zener diodes in series and came across this page:

    http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/basics/diodes.htm about half way down it talks about series zeners.

    what is the voltage reading after the first and second zener?

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  7. #7
    good point..that doc shows series zener's but doesn't explain what happens when they are in series....is 15V + 15V really 30V??? I will measure it when I get home in about 1.5 hrs....do you happen to have any hints about the beta multiplier??

    i was thinking i am asking alot of the lm317 as the output impedance into the battery looks like a short to the output side of the 317 right??

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    the beta multiplier is not in the LM it is a separate darlington pair into the regulator
    I do not know what the IC is
    Tom


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  9. #9
    Tom C,

    In post #2 you have quoted Joster and mentioned the power supply. I thought you misquoted him maybe since he showed the bench power supply but did not mention the voltage on it. Or I got something wrong ??
    My point was that with 12v power supply he would have been able to keep the cap charged at higher voltage if the circuit was correct.

    Here is a great read and detailed explanation about the zener and zeners in series :
    http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/diode/diode_7.html
    That site is very helpful.

    Joster,

    You said it yourself - if you disconnect the rest of the circuit the cap would charge higher. Which means ... something is drawing power from it.
    Right now you have the LM317 connected like it is supposed to be used as a conventional voltage regulator. The diode from the SS SG feeds both the cap and the regulator so the cap is just as a smoothing filtering cap to the regulator. I can't clearly see on the video on which pin of LM317 you have the resistor and potentiometer connected.

    When using zener as a regulator or a reference the regulated point is between the resistor and the zener. Two 15V in series will give you 30V, but the resistor must be in series with the load. Anyway zener regulator is recommended for small loads in the range of a few milliamps not to pass 1.5 A. The way you have them in your circuit - they do not do anything right now. This is why the cap does not charge to 30V as you intended.

    I recommended to you to read the 160 Amp solar Tracker thread as John has shared a lot of info there but you either did not read it or did not pay attention reading it ...
    I have to repeat John's words. They did not have 3 pin regulators back in time and did them discretely meaning separate components and lots of calculations. Inside LM317 and all the regulators there is a darlington pair but it is not the Beta Multiplier as Tom C noted.
    I personally studied the internal schematics of some regulator chips since John mentioned it and learned a lot from that. I was in shock and panic at first but slowly I got to understand most of it.
    The first step to understand the the Beta multiplier is to learn the Series-Pass and I will give you a video link and a nice article. And I have passed through a lot of articles which do not explained it well so these are good.

    Series-Pass Regulator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDs5SZIFLKk
    Series-Pass Article http://www.tpub.com/neets/book7/27k.htm

    Than go and read that thread.


    LM317 is a little beast - it has built-in current limiting feature and thermal protection as well. Good that you put it on a heatsink otherwise it might have been long gone

    Regards
    Lman
    Last edited by Lman; 08-07-2014 at 03:04 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    he built his solid state SG into the power supply box, and I did not listen really carefully to the first sentence in the video where he says this, so I assumed it was just a plain old power supply. nice video on the series pass!! randy fromm arcade school! he was the go to guy for years in the video game industry.

    Tom C
    Last edited by Tom C; 08-05-2014 at 04:13 PM.


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