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Thread: 8 transistor Board

  1. #1

    8 transistor Board

    Greetings friends,

    I built a new board that I want to share with the group. I have it configured as a solid state charger at the moment but it may get converted to mechanical at a later time.

    This board is using 10A diodes on the collector, 200Ohm wire wound 1 percent resistors on the base. The coils are from Teslagenx 130ft 18Awg 4 strand (two of them) and a 2k Ohm pot.

    To start out this post I am going to do some "normal" runs with charts so we can observe it in mode 1 at various inputs and later on I will start adding in my tricks like Gen mode and cap dumping. We will just start out with basic runs though.

    Here are some shots of the board:

    NewBoard1.jpg

    NewBoard2.jpg


    Here is an introduction video where I describe the device and run it though some various settings. I also have a meter hooked up to look at frequency across the power coil. It is a little long but if your into this sort of thing you may enjoy it.

    VIDEO:
    https://files.secureserver.net/0sPrwGz3JOvDJ2

    Feel free to chime in with questions or comments. I post this stuff in the interest of the group, not to just talk to myself ;-)
    Last edited by BobZilla; 05-25-2014 at 07:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Bob
    nice setup great video
    i dont think you said it you meant run at the c 20 of run battery ?

  3. #3
    Hi Bob,
    Cool setup, I am glad someone is doing solid state setup. I'll be following this thread with a keen interest.
    I have had the chance to play with 8 fillers quite a bit and I still don't think I understand everything that's needed to be understood.
    I'll start with couple Q and comments.
    - Is it really necessary to have 10A diode? they seem to be over sized for the job.
    - All my coils are 130ft 22awg. Why? just because that's why I had at the time. Now what can one expect to get with 18awg wire that we don't/can't already achieve with a thinner wire? I get the "thinner wire has more resistance" thing. But can a tuned 22 awg 8 filled perform just as much as a tuned 18awg coil? At the end of the day isn't just generating pulsed radiant spikes?
    Again thanks Bob for stepping up to the plate.
    NoFear.

  4. #4
    Guy,
    That is a great question but I do not know the actual rating of this battery. On the sticker it says "109AH @ 1A" now what the fook does that mean? I have tries to find actual C rates for this thing but cannot.

    Here is a link to the page for them:
    http://www.walmart.com/msharbor/ip/16795212

    I do have some other AGM's, actually the one in that video is a true 100AH with 4A c20 but I am doing the run now with the walmart batteries on both ends. Basically to answer your question I will run higher than a C20 usually, more like c30 or 40. That will be part of the series I am going to do charts on for this post though. Right now I am doing a run drawing 1.5 , I will do another at maybe 3 so we can compare.


    NoFear,
    No the 10A diodes are not necessary, I am using them because I intend to run this thing hard occasionally and especially gen mode will push more current than the original.

    The wire gauge probably has many reasons but in basic terms I have always found that you need larger wire for larger batteries. For example on my old small wheel it started with the small wire and really had a hard time getting a garden battery charged. It could do it but it tool so freaking long. Once I upgraded it to an 18AWG it pushed it up a lot faster. 18AWG is all I wil use these days unless I am making a tiny circuit for crystal cells or low voltage. For SSG stuff 18AWG is always my choice. As too why this is, well as you said resistance is an obvious factor right and you already understand that. What you may not be thinking of is the wire also acts as a capacitor in a way. We are storing and dumping charge across those wires after all aren't we.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    so C ratings are the number of amps at a given number of hours it will provide. 109/20=5.45 amps for 20 hours. 80 percent of that is 87.2 amps at C20. that is unreasonable from the standpoint of actual usage. temperature, state of the plates, and what is called the peukert effect, allow higher ratings above C100. they are telling you what the C109 rate is. so they expect this battery to be used very lightly to run a few led's or something, its a very disengenuos rating...... but if you are running an SG under 1 amp, it should run a few days before needing recharging. the peukert effect is one of those little "secrets" that allow batt manufacturers to expand the claims of their batteries.

    from wikipedia
    Peukert's law, presented by the German scientist W. Peukert in 1897, expresses the capacity of a battery in terms of the rate at which it is discharged. As the rate increases, the battery's available capacity decreases

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert's_law

    everyone should know this, it will help you analyse your batteries true capacity and cop figures. it leads to some questions like what happens if you run your primary BELOW its self discharge rate? or run a battery above C100? will the primary stay charged on an SG?

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  6. #6
    Thanks tom, I was pointing out their bull**** way of stating the capacity but I didn't elaborate. Any normal company would provide a C20 rate but they want sheeple to think they are getting a 109AH (C20) for 80 bucks Lol. Most people would look at another brand which says maybe 40AH c20 or whatever and then see this one and go wowo it says 109AH

    I have a CBA which I can run some tests with to try and determine the true c20 but it would take so freaking long and I hate just burning the juice for nothing. We will see soon in the set of charts I am running now how it performs. I am draining at 1.5A currently and I will do another run at 3A draw for comparison.

    I am well aware, I have tried to drill into peoples heads for quite some time WHY it is foolish to put matched batteries on a system front and back to try and demonstrate COP. I do it all the time because people like to see it but in the real world I am going to but the biggest damm primary I can against the charge because we know that is really the way to get performance we desire for exactly the reason you point out. Many times I have seen people say well I used my first primary and I put the second one in after that, and then another. Well if they understood how batteries work they would have put all three in parallel in the first freaking place but few seem to understand it. Not talking about the fact that they need three to get the job done, just that they don't know that IF it takes three and they know that, they should combine them to make a larger source.

    For giggles here is a up close of this deceptive sticker:
    sticker.jpg

    The battery is sold for trolling motors primarily I would say your estimate is about right. The trolling motor is not going to pull a steady load and not constant either as you only bump it on here and there to get around coves when out fishing but those bumps are probably between 3 - 6 A. Anyway people who use them for this purpose seem to think they are pretty good batteries. I got them because they were cheap and at least they are flooded. All of my other deep cells are those AGM's that I have had since before I Knew better. They are good too but you have to be careful about drying those out.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 05-26-2014 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #7
    Hi Bob,
    Good stuff here. I subscribe to this thread w/ much interest even though the vid is still loading :-)

    Do you plan on using John K's 1hr method for measuring (with your big primary, you should be able to get a good read on watts in) or do you have another method... ?

    Kind Regards,
    Patrick A.

  8. #8
    Hi Patrick,

    I am open to any suggestions with reason. If someone would like to see a particular discharge/charge we can do that. Honesty the real fun has not begun with this yet, we will get to the cap dancing that I showed on that other machine eventually, as well as normal cap dumps, gen mode, and heck I might even put one of your CPD's on it. This will just be about exploration of method with some sort of results. I don't have a perfectly controlled science lab obviously but we can still have fun with it.

    I didn't mention it just yet but I a plan to try running this of my 55 watt solar panel and I don't think that will run out of fuel any time soon ;-)

    Batteries for now with basic curves and then we will get into other mods if their is interest enough.

    I think I know what your talking about with Johns method but if you want to describe it too me again so I can make sure to do it correctly we can have a look.

  9. #9
    Bing bang boom, just finished watching your vid. Very nice illustration and breakdown of the charge battery!
    Well done!
    Solid state is sweet eh, you can control so many variables on the fly. So at what frequency do you think those coils are filling up prior to discharge? and maybe we don't really care if they fill up? Can't wait till you get into the how to of your cap dancing dump.

    I have a 3filer 3T 300' 18awg run from a 20W solar panel that charges 6 T105's in 12 volt + a few car batteries in parallel = guess-ta-mit 1000Ah it charges it every day. I run it down every night. Ur going to love the CPD mod when you start running off the solar, U might come up w/ something better using your arduino though.
    Kind Regards,
    Patrick

    Just caught your post on measuring. I'll just botch it up if I try and explain it myself. Here's John K's post Click Me


    Quote Originally Posted by BobZilla View Post
    Greetings friends,

    I built a new board that I want to share with the group. I have it configured as a solid state charger at the moment but it may get converted to mechanical at a later time.

    This board is using 10A diodes on the collector, 200Ohm wire wound 1 percent resistors on the base. The coils are from Teslagenx 130ft 18Awg 4 strand (two of them) and a 2k Ohm pot.

    To start out this post I am going to do some "normal" runs with charts so we can observe it in mode 1 at various inputs and later on I will start adding in my tricks like Gen mode and cap dumping. We will just start out with basic runs though.

    Here are some shots of the board:

    NewBoard1.jpg

    NewBoard2.jpg


    Here is an introduction video where I describe the device and run it though some various settings. I also have a meter hooked up to look at frequency across the power coil. It is a little long but if your into this sort of thing you may enjoy it.

    VIDEO:
    https://files.secureserver.net/0sPrwGz3JOvDJ2

    Feel free to chime in with questions or comments. I post this stuff in the interest of the group, not to just talk to myself ;-)

  10. #10
    So looking at Johns thing I think all I really need to do is break out the CBA and do a discharge at the 1.5A for an hour and then charge it back up at the same rate from the primary, anyway I will do that for whatever it is worth and maybe others can chime in with the math.

    You bring up a good point about saturation of the coil. I don't think I am even coming close to a full saturation at these lower draws. I do know that I am getting spikes and pretty good ones because I ran it very briefly on LOW with no load to look at the neons and even on the lowest they lit up pretty good but of course that means very little. I have no way to observe the actual spikes which is why I look at all of the other factors that I can at least look at with my meters. In my view no we do not need full saturation to get some nice charging anyway. As long as our spikes have that high potential than we will charge. With full saturation we would have stronger higher potential but heck my neons are rated 65v so I know I am at least getting that, subtract 15v for the fully charged battery and that leaves me a minimum of 40v difference. I'm pretty sure I have much more than that but at a minimum I KNOW I have that because of the indicators.

    The frequency also goes back to what I was saying in that other video too. With increased frequency I think we get well obviously more spikes per sec right so what is better hypothetically, 1000 spikes at 150v or 2000 at 100v,,, add it up and the higher frequency seems better as long as you have a potential there, without that we can't charge. The real killer of it is the current required to move the battery (current on charge not primary), otherwise we could charge anything on super high frequency but it just doesn't work out that way, we have to kick it into submission just hard enough but not too hard. That was the jist of the compairison with the small battery and large one. I know you know this stuff Patrick, just saying stuff for others to maybe get them thinking.

    Anyway I am just rambling this off the top of my head, it is not a well thought out speech.

    Still doing that first run, it's going to be a long time till it finishes.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 05-26-2014 at 11:49 AM.

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