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Thread: Dumas's Sphere: instant water boiler secret now revealed, OU, AND reproducible !!! :)

  1. #11
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    Vacuum distillation experimenters kit:

    http://www.amazon.com/MHB-ST-3SET-Va.../dp/B004DKT0UO

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  2. #12
    Thx Tom, That is just what I was talking about and now I have something else I would like to buy at some point. Not to stay so far on a tangent but just for this post let's crunch some numbers because I am getting some seemingly strange results that perhaps someone would confirm or refine.

    Lets take a 5 gallon drum of water. How much energy is saved if one completely boils off this 5 gallons at 40C instead of 100C.

    1 gallon =~ 3780 grams, 5 gallons = 18900 grams.
    1 calorie is defined as energy required to raise one gram of water one degree Celsius.
    100-40=60 60*18900 = 1,134,000 calories
    1 calorie = 4.2 joules so 4,762,800 joules


    I am pretty amazed that the difference is 4.8 megajoules but don't see any other way to calculate it. So this is the number we have to play around with to create the vacuum. How much energy is needed to create the vacuum? That I've found to be a much tougher question. First what is the volume we need to evacuate, well we need another 5 gallon collection container, some piping and some air space above the first container so let's say ten gallons. 10 gallons is also 0.038 cubic meters. So how much energy is required to create a 1 psi vacuum in 0.038 cubic meters? While I need help here I did find two sources from a search of "energy required to create a vacuum" 1) http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=732567 JBriggs gave the following equation

    W = V * ( Pamb - Pnew ) + V * Pnew * ln(Pnew/Pamb)
    plugging the numbers in

    0.038 *(101,325 - 6895) + 0.038*6895*ln(6895/101325) = 3588 + 262*(-2.68) = 2,883 joules

    there is a second discussion here http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=526188 xts declares that it would take 18Kw to create a one torr vacuum for 7 cubic meters we would need a slightly lesser vacuum in 0.038 cubic meters. Hence (0.038/7)*18Kw= 99 watts. A joule is also a watt/sec, so these numbers are quite a bit different and quite a bit less than 5 megajoules, don't know if either is correct but I will say this, I have a car tire inflator that plugs into the car DC outlet, it will pump up a tire in 5 minutes or less what would it draw, maybe 50 watts? It is pumping from ambient of 15 psi to 32 or more psi. 5*60*50 = 150,000 joules, still less than 4,800,000 joules.

    I can't definitively nail it down, but I suspect it takes one percent or less of the energy saved to create the vacuum condition necessary to boil water at 40C vs 100C, the rest would be pure energy savings. If my above calculations are not way the heck off, vacuum distillation should be on every boat, in every shore town in the world. Of course something else funny is going on whenever you have a liquid turning to steam at near ambient temperature, who knows maybe that is why no large company develops it commercially.

  3. #13
    i maybe way off but but boiling water in denver a mile high has less energy in it it will take longer more heat to cook a egg, than at sea level
    water boiling is not a good ref. point [4 me] i dont think water will be made safe when boiled at 200,000 feet the heat is not there
    you got my att. because i worked all time with a 2 lbs neg.pressure fixing fuel leaks on large aircraft
    water boiling above sea level is not a good indication of the the energy 4 ME in it ,unless pressure is considered
    i need to read some more [cold boil ] cold steam?
    i sure that if pulling a vacuum on a boiler gave the same energy as an open boiler it would all over the place
    yould easily get more power out of steam for a lot less in put heat, the way i see you actual make it harder to put heat in

    Choosing partial vacuum distillation over atmospheric is not aimed to save some energy, but for other reasons as maintaining a lower temperature; of when the temperature of the heat resource is low.
    Then, to distill seawater, the 'energy price to pay' for the task is not decreased by the lower temperature-partial vacuum technique.
    http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/4...ed-to-distill/

    I will have to evacuate a certain volume in order to allow the water to boil and fill that space, and it will stop when the pressure reaches the vapor pressure.

    Air Watts
    Central Vacuums in North America are measured by CFM and waterlift.
    http://builtinvacuum.com/education/definitions.html

    so keep the vacuum on the water is what will kill the energy saved by lower temp and lower boil point
    due to lower air pressure [i think] ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oanMlUuzcPU
    Last edited by guyzzemf; 05-10-2014 at 04:17 AM.

  4. #14
    Hi guyzzemf,

    First off I defer to Bung-ee if I should go elsewhere with this as it is tangential to the original thread. That said I want to keep talking about this because if there aren't errors I think the concept is useful. Concerning your points

    1) the goal is not to cook an egg, indeed if you had a partial vacuum such that water boiled at 80-90F you aren't going to cook that egg no matter how long you boil it. I completely agree that the steam coming off water in a partial vacuum at 80F won't have near the same energy as one at 1 atm and 212F If you wanted to turn a turbine with it, not so good, in fact if I recall they super heat the steam in the big coal and nuclear fired plants to 1000F or 1000C as this highly energetic steam is more efficient.

    2) Vacuum distillation won't make the water safe or purify it, I disagree. The viruses, bacteria, particulates, minerals will not turn to vapour at the lower pressure, the differential in boiling points remains you have just moved the goal posts. In fact, if the skimming I have been doing has not been misunderstood vacuum distillation is used for difficult fractional distillation cases, i.e. ones where you want to separate two liquids with similar boiling points. I do agree that you won't get any heat inactivation of viruses/bacteria, it shouldn't matter.

    3) There is no net energy savings with vacuum distillation, I believe there is with the approach I detailed. The commenter on the science forum rightly points out that if you convert water to steam it will occupy more space (increasing pressure in the closed container) and as more and more steam is created more and more must be pumped out to maintain the vacuum, hence no energy savings. However that is not the approach I outlined. Here it is again, consider a closed container partially evacuated to where water boils at 85F. It is on the roof of car in direct sunlight and so at 100F, the water vaporizes and rises a foot to a first collection chamber that is in the shade and so at the ambient temperature of 70F. It recondenses to liquid in the collection chamber and is allowed to drip off to a second collection container also at 70F. Likewise the youtube video does not have any collection chamber where steam condenses. So no, you don't need to keep drawing off the steam to maintain the vacuum.

    Here is a video of a "toy" called a hand boiler, this shows a similar concept without the second collection chamber. In a hand boiler a volatile organic I think usually an alcohol is used that has boiling point of maybe 80F, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYB_EHfX89I Now that I look at this video again, I have to admit you are right that there is no distillation going on here, the dye should have stayed in the bottom chamber. Then again if you are moving that liquid in the hand boiler to the upper chamber without even needing to fully vaporize it that opens a different kettle of fish. Still maybe I missing something with trying to use this to distill water cost effectively. Long and short I need to pick up the vacuum distillation kit I was referred to, take some salt water and see if I get fresh water with minimal heat and a partial vacuum.
    Last edited by ZPDM; 05-10-2014 at 02:58 PM.

  5. #15
    cool i had a toy like that
    i just saying boil water is not a good way of determining the energy [heat] in it /for 99.9 of the people it is. but us it not

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk71GY02diY

  6. #16
    Hi guys,
    well first I 'm happy to see you got the flavor that this invention, is easily replicable, and leads to a direct sea water desalination device for little electrical consumption.
    Although I am still building and measuring, the effect can easily be produced. To get OU is also apparently easy, but the tuning can get you a little more time.
    The ideal dimensions are that the upper half sphere has a constant 1,6 mm width spacing with the inner sphere - which can only be produced by a 3D printer, which the inventor doesn't have even on his POC and multiple prototypes. So himself, and many others since, have just "bought" more or less similar "half spheres" and have begun to replicate the effect with using washers in small increments. It is not difficult at all to repoduce. You could do this and go for a cheaper heating of your house by NEXT WINTER.
    You will see instant vapor production, in good quantity. I am still working on the OU measurements and the watts consumption; I am working on the invento'rs sphere size and a bigger size , in my basement. however I trust the process to be OU, and the pain that the inventor and some others took to have it tested independently (10 or more , with a final public and experts certification test) . There has been a LOT of frontal opposition to the effect already - it seems that some people want it to be ridiculed. You already have false "facebook pages" and false "forums" on the web that have emerged, in immediate opposition and criticism to this discovery. in my very humble opinion they are almost all wrongdoes (some may be coming from honest non believers). Even hoaxbuster.com has emitted a "warning for hoax" on this one ! Without having spent one hour on the subject ? just with a team of gossipers ? I now tend to think hoaxbusters.com is a truly false hoaxbusting entity, if it ever been something else, such as quackwatch.com . To me, both are possible organs of propaganda ,( like wikipedia ? ).
    I have modest experience in the effect and I believe so much in it. check a guy on youtube.com, his pseudo is "asstuss la bricole" and he already built 2 cheap heat generation machines from one Dumas sphere he built. He has been a source of inspiration ever since.

    I'm telling one thing. France is a small country . If an inventor comes up with something and faces such opposition, - I believe first he's honest and second, he's found smoething of value for Humanity - take the ride right now. Because you will then become a first hand testimonial of the lies we are being fed with and most important - that Something has been decided that This should come to an end.

    Greets my watts !!
    Last edited by Bung-ee; 06-23-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    Vacuum distillation experimenters kit:

    http://www.amazon.com/MHB-ST-3SET-Va.../dp/B004DKT0UO

    Tom C
    I am sure that we could reproduce this equipment from schools' lab suppliers for a tenth of the cost. I wonder how much a local school's chemistry teacher would sell the set-up for, supplied from his or her own stock? Possibly just replacement cost.

  8. #18
    can someone please explain to me what is the interest of this vaccum thing ?
    thanks

  9. #19
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    it lowers the temp required to cause vaporization.
    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  10. #20
    the effect + its OU characteristic is supposed to appear with any dimension.As far as the inventor has tried, a ball of 6/7/8 centimeters will do.
    The inventor warns not to go beyond a "basket ball" for security reasons and other phenomena he evokes - so just do like the rest of us and you'll be both safe and successful.

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