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Thread: Snowman 8 Transistor SSG Build - Trigger Problems?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    The Struggle Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by aln View Post
    JB says lead acid are fully charged at 16v, old ones are a struggle to get there at times. depending on the size of your charger. Beef up the front end (bigger batt) or increase the resistance on the base as you will kill your primary discharging it at that rate. Aln
    Aln,

    Thanks for your suggestions - they are right on. The current set-up is running on the hairy edge with respect to gap and resistance (no scope for fine tuning). The maximum charge voltage for the Charge battery will be upped to the 16 volt plateau to ensure a full desulfation and radiant charge. The primary battery set-up will be upgraded today with additional similar batteries to eliminate the switching BS.

    So welcome to the world of radiant charging, yet again another diversion,
    Yaro
    Last edited by Yaro1776; 02-13-2014 at 04:25 AM.

  2. #42
    Yaro,
    did you experience any advantages in charging yet? I mean that the time to charge will decrease. Unfortunately I didn't, yet - even after 60+ runs.

    Thank you for providing the pdf files with your rpm and in vs. out amps results, I really love seeing results from others so I can compare my setup.
    Here is my stuff (just ignore the Km/h, it is the German mph)

    SweetSpots.jpg
    btw - I also calculated the rpm vs mA to find the sweet spots with best speed vs current.

    Ralf
    Last edited by romeo-kilo; 02-13-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    you will not see 1 to 1 with a 16 volt Termination point for a very long time. the last volt and a half above 14.5 is harder to achieve. that is another reason battery companies use 14.5 as termination voltage. if you have good batteries 15.3 is good enough. it takes a long time and lots of cycles, with no resting to achieve higher capacity, and you will lose it with letting the batteries sit. this is from Lindemans battery books.

    1 to 1 is very easy at 14.5

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  4. #44
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Ralf,

    I did check out your graph and according to your method the sweet spots are self evident. I am unfamiliar with your build so I have no reference point to what I am looking at. The data that you collected, is that from varying the resistance or gap - perhaps it is real time data from the wheel as it is ramping up?

    My first run Charge discharge time needs to be corrected and I am in the process of completing the correction. My last run ended in a failure due to my battery charger having issues. So, in reality I have not accomplished much this week beyond spotting a weird set of readings on my Charge input voltage during the test run battery switch. This intrigues me and I am trying to duplicate it again.

    Yaro

  5. #45
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Tom,

    Thanks for your input on 15.3v test termination level. Looking at my data it shows that an additional 35-40 minutes were required from 14.5v to reach 15.3v. I will slide that into the calcs for grins since we know the input amp rate.

    I can see that this will be a marathon effort to measure the gains since they are additive according your reference to Peter L. Uncertain if the 20 continuous runs can be pulled off by a single person when one considers a 20 hr discharge time and ~10 hr charge time with the present SSG set up. Looks like it is time to bite the bullet again and buy the CBA IV to help with the discharge cycle program. I need more toys...

    BTW - All the batteries are new NAPA 230cca.

    Yaro

  6. #46
    Yaro,
    the setup I have is as follows:
    - Shimano Bike Wheel for 26" tyres (Free Run Time 9 ~ minutes).
    - matched 7 Transistor Setup.
    - 18 Magnets a little bigger in size than recommended in the beginners handbook. More were not possible as they would have been too narrow on the wheel.
    - Matched Diodes and Resistors.
    - 4 Watt Rheostat in the Trigger Circuit.
    - Gap optimized for highest speed per mA.

    The figures from my spreadsheet above were just using different settings of the Rheostat. Every speed mesurement was done during one go, but I waited up to 5 minutes for possible changes in speed. Coil size, cable diameter and Magnet Size is a little different as the book, as in Europe I didn't get the US sizes.

    Ralf

  7. #47
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Finished up data check on first COP run - been slowed down by flu bug and Major Snow storm.

    OK, Basic Info For the Snowman 8 transistor build; 22.5" Outside Diameter wheel, 21 magnets, running with Coil to Magnet gap of ~0.200". Tested Charge battery Amp hr capacity 19 hrs at 0.48 amps down to 12.20 volts.

    Run#1 2/9/14 Start; Charge Battery at 12.45v with maximum at 15.34v.
    Total run time 9.98 hrs with Primary output 1.78 amps and Charge input 0.91 amps.
    Corrected Charge battery discharge time 19.0 hrs at 0.48 amps.

    The basic performance in the above run essentially verifies the data from the numerous early test runs. Good!

    Run#2 2/11/14 Run aborted due to technical difficulties with Primary Battery charging.

    Another run will be started shortly.

    @romeo - thanks for the details on your build and I do not have any useful gain data to present at this time.

    Yaro
    Last edited by Yaro1776; 02-16-2014 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Corrected amp label

  8. #48
    Senior Member Branch Gordon's Avatar
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    When you did your initial test to determine AH capacity on your batteries, what were the results?

    If these are 13-14AH starter batteries, your primary output and charge input is way too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaro1776 View Post
    Finished up data check on first COP run - been slowed down by flu bug and Major Snow storm.

    OK, Basic Info For the Snowman 8 transistor build; 22.5" Outside Diameter wheel, 21 magnets, running with Coil to Magnet gap of ~0.200". Tested Charge battery Amp hr capacity 19 hrs at 0.48 volts down to 12.20 volts.

    Run#1 2/9/14 Start; Charge Battery at 12.45v with maximum at 15.34v.
    Total run time 9.98 hrs with Primary output 1.78 amps and Charge input 0.91 amps.
    Corrected Charge battery discharge time 19.0 hrs at 0.48 amps.

    The basic performance in the above run essentially verifies the data from the numerous early test runs. Good!

    Run#2 2/11/14 Run aborted due to technical difficulties with Primary Battery charging.

    Another run will be started shortly.

    @romeo - thanks for the details on your build and I do not have any useful gain data to present at this time.

    Yaro

  9. #49
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Branch,

    Thanks for your comment - aware that the output from the primary is on the high side and am making adjustments. The 8 transistor build has strong Primary draw demands for the Battery size of 230cca or 10-11 amp hr. This particular board has fixed 470 ohm resistors with a limited range of final adjustment for the trigger.

    The amp hr capacity of one Primary battery (based on a 12.2v low threshold and bounce back to >12.44v) is about 9.5 amp hr. The other Primary is in process of load testing. The accuracy of my DC voltage meters may come into play here - I use the most conservative meter for the voltage reads, usually about 0.02v lower than the others. The Charge battery came in at 9.12 amp hrs.

    I am backing off from further COP testing until some of the issues are resolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Branch Gordon View Post
    When you did your initial test to determine AH capacity on your batteries, what were the results?

    If these are 13-14AH starter batteries, your primary output and charge input is way too high.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Yaro1776's Avatar
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    Battery I/O Ratio Anomaly with Progress

    Back in post #35 there is a test Run 1 in the post attachment that shows an anomaly (unusual data). In this run the wheel never accelerated beyond 154 rpm with 12 ohm fixed resistor, yet produced relatively high output (1.51) and input amps (0.97) along with a high value for the Input/Output Ratio of 0.64. Bear in mind most of the other test I/O ratios have been about 0.5 (except runs 3-6 which are put aside for now).

    Interesting enough to put some effort into seeing what is happening here, and if the Charge battery can be fully pumped up to 15.3 volts and then discharged, and then what the final numbers look like. The gap appears to have had a minor tweak since that early run so the numbers are a bit different

    The results of this test produced a fully charged test battery (this battery is a bit tired w/ ~3 amp hr capacity) in 3.5 hours and then discharged immediately to 12.2 volts over 6.1 hours. The results show:
    Primary Output - 4.73 amp hrs
    Charge Input - 2.80 amp hrs
    I/O Ratio - 0.59
    Discharged - 2.94 amp hrs

    So then a rheostat was added to increase the trigger resistance, data shows the RPM increasing a bit and the I/O Ratio showing the potential to reach 0.64. The I/O amps dropped - did not push this any further...
    Essentially, this shows that it is possible to improve the I/O ratio dramatically at least 28% as shown above. This is a basic gain to the charging system.

    All in all a very useful exercise - quoting Jimi Hendrix "excuse me while I kiss the sky"
    Yaro
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