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Thread: New Two Coil Monopole

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
    erfinder, good stuff! I did forget about the collapsing field entering into the trigger circuit. So with this setup we have A/C and negative energy effecting the trigger of the transistors. Now it starts to make perfect sense where all this power is coming from.

    Bud
    Yeah, most don't see it cause they don't push the circuits hard. I put 500v into my SG circuits I was seeing it all the time, huge pots burning and I couldn't understand why. The trigger isn't part of the power circuit, so you shouldn't see any power being dissipated there. When it finally dawned on me that this coil is quite literally a 1:1 transformer, it becomes clear that the trigger coil is an output winding when the power winding is off, and thanks to mutual induction, the trigger will copy the power that was flowing in the power winding! This technically means that if you keep the resistances of the circuit low and remove the losses in the trigger, COP 1 is a piece of cake, because the pickup coil is literally "MAKING A COPY" of the power supply.

    Regards

  2. #42
    I wrote about this somewhere else on the forum I think but anyway,, I only intend to discuss this and I am not making any claims and do not wish to have a pissing contest.

    I am aware of the transforming effect on the trigger. I have always though of it as beneficial and that is where the extra spikes come from. You have the normal spike from the magnet passing and releasing the Mosfet switch, but because of the induction you get self oscillation if the conditions are right, IE RPM, power, many factors. I think that is why my system runs so nicely on 2 spikes, the first is a natural spike so to say from the magnet opening the Mosfet and then a second from the induction re-opening the base.

    To take further advantage of that situation I put that capacitor in parallel with the primary which changes the impedance greatly and also accepts the trigger collapse, much more readily than just a battery can. I get no heating or waste of that energy, it goes back into the system. So anyway maybe you guys are talking about something else or maybe I have misunderstood but to me the cross induction is not a problem, it's helping my system.


    Along with what Bud was saying though I do want to put a mechanical load on the axle and play around with that. It was the whole reason I struggled with the axle build in the first place, so I could experiment with that. I need to find a fan that will fit or perhaps a pully to drive a little generator wheel, something to put a light load on it. I just have not put that together yet.

    Perhaps what you guys are talking about becomes a problem at higher RPM or with larger magnets/ coils but so far with my setup I have not had a problem with too much induction on the trigger.

  3. #43
    Hi guys,

    As I understand it, the basic rotored SSG with the 130' 8 filar coil (#20 x 7 and #23 x1) is designed to run on a 12 volt primary battery. It makes sense that when we push the primary voltage to much higher levels, we need to redesign the trigger circuit. JB told us as much! The high induced voltage in the trigger winding from the mutual induction of the higher primary input voltage will cause the problems you are discussing in this thread.

    A separate (isolated) trigger source, along with all the windings being power windings, might be the way to go in high powered systems. The trigger could be anything that is properly timed to the wheel. Or it could be any source in an un-rotored or SS SSG.
    Gary Hammond,

  4. #44
    I tend to agree with Gary on this one. I always run my systems at 12v and have not had these problems. My original message was simply comparing 1 v 2 spikes and the frequency doubling and what benifet that could have for over all production, it never was a problem.

    I'm pretty sure Mr. Bedini designed the original fully aware of the induction, he does not do anything without a good reason. If it were a problem he would have broke out the trigger to a separate coil. I think he intended it.

    Of course we all come up with modifications and some may be beneficial and along with those changes we have to drift away slightly from the original layout so I am not saying that any of this is a bad idea or incorrect. I'm just saying that as designed I'm sure the induction is part of the plan, Mr. Bedini would not overlook something like that.

  5. #45
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    Quite correct, Mr. Bedini did not overlook the issue. Anyone who has seen the Masterclass #2 DVD where John uses the wind trigger would agree. By separating the trigger winding from the power coil the whole SG machine changes.

    Of course I wasn't wise enough to realise at the time why John wanted me to build a wind triggered SG the first time we met. I'll post the pictures of the device we made in his shop so everyone can build it. It's a great way to use wind and solar at the same time to get an SG with a COP of infinity

    John K.

  6. #46
    The point of my post was missed.....I think Forrest got it.

  7. #47
    Senior Member John_Koorn's Avatar
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    erfinder, I thought the point of your post was that a lot of the energy is wasted in the trigger winding and to prevent that the designer should separate the trigger winding or design a different method of triggering.

    the question that comes to mind is - is that the reason why JB went for a hall switched Bedini/Cole circuit on the Ferris wheel machine?

    John K.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Koorn View Post
    erfinder, I thought the point of your post was that a lot of the energy is wasted in the trigger winding and to prevent that the designer should separate the trigger winding or design a different method of triggering.

    the question that comes to mind is - is that the reason why JB went for a hall switched Bedini/Cole circuit on the Ferris wheel machine?

    John K.
    Aye! Now, being a member of the peanut gallery, I cannot speak for the competent authority. I don't know why JB went to the Bedini/Cole switch, I can only speculate. I am not an insider, I don't get to rub shoulders with JB and am not privileged to take walks with him through his shop and get the good first hand info direct from the source, however, my past life as a blood hound makes me good (at least in my mind) at sniffing out pieces to a puzzle and putting them together.

    The SG portion of the Ferris wheel is a massive mismatched impedance network using three coils. I think the significance of this asymmetrical mechanism went way way way over the heads of everyone in attendance, and everyone on the forum the year following the 2010 disclosure. I don't think this was the desired response, so, the topic was revisited at the 2011 conference.

    The following quotes are from the 2011 conference, comments in orange are mine.

    From EFTV 28

    JB

    "What we wanna do with this machine is, we wanna be able to:

    • collect the charges
    • charge up the battery quickly

    And there's only one way to do that and that's with a capacitor dup at the correct frequency and correct resonance. (no further information or commentary regarding frequency and resonance was provided.)"

    "The coils are on the same line, coils are on one set of wires, one has an iron core and one has an air core, and you're saying why did John throw the coil behind the big coil. Cause we couldn't tune the machine, it's a tuning mechanism to get the machine to run."

    "Eric do you want to explain that the machine wouldn't run."

    Eric

    "That was after we figured out that the magnetic fields were too close. So then we tried it at 12v and we could get it to run as an SG, then we tried it at 24v and it would self-oscillate. So that's when we decided to switch to the Bedini/Cole switch to drive the motor. That sped it up significantly but it still wouldn't run quite as good as we like and that's when we added the second coil."

    JB

    "But we added that second coil to get the energy out of the machine. "

    (WHAT THE FUUK???? You just said you added for tuning purposes, you said you added it because the machine wouldn't run!!!! Not that I'm complaining....)

    "Because the original Bedini/Cole switch........"

    "Cold is more organized and the hot is disorganized..."

    "Right, that's what happens when the alignment takes place, that takes place that we were talking about. But I couldn't get the energy out of the coil under this motor situation and I couldn't get the energy out of this motor situation. (referring to wooden three Bedini/Cole switched SG) So the solution to my problem was to have one organized and one disorganized, and take it from the disorganized one. Compress it and take it, the same way the SG does."

    "Now some of you have tried to build these motors using the Bedini/Cole circuit right. And some of you can get some energy out, some of you don't get any energy out because I watched. I watched a whole years of internet chatter...."

    "That's how you get the energy out by misbalancing these two. This does not equal that (pointing at the large and small coil in ErikN's machine.) So there's two different impedance's, so to get the energy out of this (pointing at the high impedance) I had to misbalance it and believe me it drove us nuts for a little while......"

    End of quotes

    This post is about the effects of transformer action found in the SG between the trigger and the power coil. It should be clear that this relationship was well understood by JB in the prior art, where many have stagnated, as they are still working with the SG in the prior art. In the present art the same coils are now being switched using the highly modified Bedini/Cole switch, this switching topology eliminates the output limitations found in the SG. It should be clear that what I am suggesting, compliments what is already known and well established by the inventor, and in no way contradicts nor questions his disclosure. From the quotes I came to the conclusion that the true significance of the additional coil is for the expressed purpose of establishing an imbalance in the impedance of the coil, tuning is secondary to this. The goal is to get the energy out, the very same energy which is trapped in the SG of the prior art.

    It should be clear that impedance mismatching is imperative, this was demonstrated from day one, in the prior art. As experience is the best teacher, I appreciate being shown the prior art first and then being allowed to work towards a better understanding of the relations between the various varying circuit parameters and conditions. Resonance and frequency were mentioned, but weren't discussed, speaking from my own experience, once those two find their place in the present art, the COP of the circuit will be not be a relation between input and output, it will be related between input and reactive power to real power out. The idea being when the circuit is operating where it should, you can draw from the source, but the source is replenished at the end of each cycle, in excess of what you draw from it, so technically you have no input. This is why the battery is significant. It's there but it's not.....

    Regards

  9. #49
    Senior Member Tom C's Avatar
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    "It should be clear that impedance mismatching is imperative" !!!!!!!! impedance is NOT resistance.... because its based on FREQUENCY in an inductor, even in pulsed DC not just AC

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...tric/impl.html

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

  10. #50
    I like this and comment so it does not disappear...


    Quote Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
    Aye! Now, being a member of the peanut gallery, I cannot speak for the competent authority. I don't know why JB went to the Bedini/Cole switch, I can only speculate. I am not an insider, I don't get to rub shoulders with JB and am not privileged to take walks with him through his shop and get the good first hand info direct from the source, however, my past life as a blood hound makes me good (at least in my mind) at sniffing out pieces to a puzzle and putting them together.

    The SG portion of the Ferris wheel is a massive mismatched impedance network using three coils. I think the significance of this asymmetrical mechanism went way way way over the heads of everyone in attendance, and everyone on the forum the year following the 2010 disclosure. I don't think this was the desired response, so, the topic was revisited at the 2011 conference.

    The following quotes are from the 2011 conference, comments in orange are mine.

    From EFTV 28

    JB

    "What we wanna do with this machine is, we wanna be able to:

    • collect the charges
    • charge up the battery quickly

    And there's only one way to do that and that's with a capacitor dup at the correct frequency and correct resonance. (no further information or commentary regarding frequency and resonance was provided.)"

    "The coils are on the same line, coils are on one set of wires, one has an iron core and one has an air core, and you're saying why did John throw the coil behind the big coil. Cause we couldn't tune the machine, it's a tuning mechanism to get the machine to run."

    "Eric do you want to explain that the machine wouldn't run."

    Eric

    "That was after we figured out that the magnetic fields were too close. So then we tried it at 12v and we could get it to run as an SG, then we tried it at 24v and it would self-oscillate. So that's when we decided to switch to the Bedini/Cole switch to drive the motor. That sped it up significantly but it still wouldn't run quite as good as we like and that's when we added the second coil."

    JB

    "But we added that second coil to get the energy out of the machine. "

    (WHAT THE FUUK???? You just said you added for tuning purposes, you said you added it because the machine wouldn't run!!!! Not that I'm complaining....)

    "Because the original Bedini/Cole switch........"

    "Cold is more organized and the hot is disorganized..."

    "Right, that's what happens when the alignment takes place, that takes place that we were talking about. But I couldn't get the energy out of the coil under this motor situation and I couldn't get the energy out of this motor situation. (referring to wooden three Bedini/Cole switched SG) So the solution to my problem was to have one organized and one disorganized, and take it from the disorganized one. Compress it and take it, the same way the SG does."

    "Now some of you have tried to build these motors using the Bedini/Cole circuit right. And some of you can get some energy out, some of you don't get any energy out because I watched. I watched a whole years of internet chatter...."

    "That's how you get the energy out by misbalancing these two. This does not equal that (pointing at the large and small coil in ErikN's machine.) So there's two different impedance's, so to get the energy out of this (pointing at the high impedance) I had to misbalance it and believe me it drove us nuts for a little while......"

    End of quotes

    This post is about the effects of transformer action found in the SG between the trigger and the power coil. It should be clear that this relationship was well understood by JB in the prior art, where many have stagnated, as they are still working with the SG in the prior art. In the present art the same coils are now being switched using the highly modified Bedini/Cole switch, this switching topology eliminates the output limitations found in the SG. It should be clear that what I am suggesting, compliments what is already known and well established by the inventor, and in no way contradicts nor questions his disclosure. From the quotes I came to the conclusion that the true significance of the additional coil is for the expressed purpose of establishing an imbalance in the impedance of the coil, tuning is secondary to this. The goal is to get the energy out, the very same energy which is trapped in the SG of the prior art.

    It should be clear that impedance mismatching is imperative, this was demonstrated from day one, in the prior art. As experience is the best teacher, I appreciate being shown the prior art first and then being allowed to work towards a better understanding of the relations between the various varying circuit parameters and conditions. Resonance and frequency were mentioned, but weren't discussed, speaking from my own experience, once those two find their place in the present art, the COP of the circuit will be not be a relation between input and output, it will be related between input and reactive power to real power out. The idea being when the circuit is operating where it should, you can draw from the source, but the source is replenished at the end of each cycle, in excess of what you draw from it, so technically you have no input. This is why the battery is significant. It's there but it's not.....

    Regards

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