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Thread: New Two Coil Monopole

  1. #31
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Hi BobZilla,

    I have almost the very same dual coil setup SG machine you are working with. It has run several hundred hours now. One of my biggest hurdles was the tuning to one spike. I fixed mine by using a very large amperage resistor "variable type" and also had a 3" dia head lamp in line as well. Please keep in mind I am using much larger ceramic magnets. This was a big experiment outside of the norm!

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps807e2a13.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17568428.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps444afdf5.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e863e59.jpg

    The point being is that the trigger circuit is a A/C alternator. The bigger the magnets the more power that is produced. The more windings the higher the voltage. The higher the RPM the higher the power. So as you can see there are a lot of voltage and power variables that effect the tuning of the transistors. Most of this is RPM sensitive. As your RPM goes of the scale so does the power and voltage and now you see the multiple spikes as the voltage rises. As this voltage rises you need to limit the A/C trigger power down to one spike. I cannot tell you what you need to do because you are outside the box of the regular SG......but RPM may be the problem as I saw in your video. I know everyone here loves the high RPM's but you need to keep in mind is that the triggering is effected by the speed or RPM. At a low RPM the SG will fire just fine but as the speed increases the firing changes because the voltage wave amplitude changes as well......makes a longer and longer duration for the transistor to fire on.

    Here is a quick way to prove my point. Put and automotive taillight bulb on the empty trigger cuircuit and see what happens as the machine ramps up in speed. This will show you the problem. The bulb will gain brightness as the RPM increases. You need to limit this power. In my pictures you will see a very large resistor in my hand that was burned in two by all this power. I contained it by the use of a head lamp and a very large variable resistor in series with each other to limit this power to the transistors. It works well! A lot of experimenting to find the answer.

    This is why JB uses a fan on his SG demonstration model to limit the speed of the wheel. He knows that the RPM is his enemy in regards to the trigger circuit power and effects the transistor firing. The fan just happens to be a very good governor. I know it looks cool but the fan is a very important part of this issue. JB is an excellent physicist and has told us everthing we need to know on how to build a SG machine......but .......he has not told us everything he knows about it. That is for us to figure out!

    Hope this helps you out.

    Bud
    Last edited by Forrest; 03-11-2014 at 03:21 PM.
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

  2. #32
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    Last edited by Forrest; 03-11-2014 at 03:20 PM.
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

  3. #33
    maybe a separate trigger coil with smaller wire and something like half length will help.... it will be a lot easier than trying to tune a trigger length thats already wound in with other wires... you will also be able to move it further away from wheel if you need

  4. #34
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    You are correct.......there is more than one way to control the trigger. I know it sounds dumb but at the time it was my way of figuring out the problem. So much was learned from this one little tad bit of information.
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

  5. #35
    i probably wouldve done same thing... how big was that resistor you blew? 5w???? anyway to harness that energy maybe? if its over 12v maybe a diode coming off trigger before resistors and going to primary positive? maybe that will make it run funny though....

  6. #36
    Hi Bud,
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think there is far too little actual collaboration between builders on this site. I am assuming that last video I had posted about the 1 v 2 spikes is what you are referencing this info to. Back when I made that there was a lot of talk about 1 spike, everyone talked and still do as if one spike is the holy grail. It does have it's uses in my opinion, but the main point I was trying to make is if you use two spikes you are popping dipoles at twice the rate aka the frequency that can be observed. The voltage is a little less than with one spike but not half as much less so the basic point was if you fire off a given number of spikes say 1 at 9v in a time frame or two at 7 v in same time frame you are really producing more with two than 1. Now I am only using the AC measurement as something to observe because I cannot see the spikes but it is an indicator of measured power. Doubled frequency at slightly less voltage than just 1 spike so the frequency of the two spikes or even three can more than make up for the little bit of voltage gained in one spike. Anyway I think I am having a hard time explaining very clearly how I think about this but hopefully someone gets my meaning.

    Your machine looks great! It looks like it could be a distant cousin to mine ;-)

    I am curious how you run yours and what kind of specs.

    For example I usually run mine at two spikes for a draw of about 2 amps. This gives roughly 270RPM (talking mode one)

    If I switch to one spike It will be about 2 and a half to three amp draw and 410RPM.

    Generally speaking it is a 2 amp machine. I can run smoothly down to an amp and keep in 2 spikes, if I go any lower I can still run but it will go into three spikes. I think I can run down to around 400ma but as I say really it is a 2 amp machine to run best. I mostly charge large 100AH batteries with it one at a time.

    If I want to charge more than 100AH say like two of them in parallel than I run it in one spike mode and pull 3 - 4 amps.

    *EDIT*
    You know actually those numbers I gave are not completely right. They are a ball park figure but I just adjusted my gap the other day and normal runs are closer to about 1 and a half amp or so. Coil gap can play a big role in it all as most of us are already aware.

    I may post some fresh video of the machine soon. I just posted a generator run but mode one runs much differently.

    Anyway I am just curious how you run yours?
    Last edited by BobZilla; 03-12-2014 at 12:15 AM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Hi Bobzila,

    This is really a great contribution from you for the group...
    Best Regards,
    Faraday88.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
    Hi BobZilla,

    I have almost the very same dual coil setup SG machine you are working with. It has run several hundred hours now. One of my biggest hurdles was the tuning to one spike. I fixed mine by using a very large amperage resistor "variable type" and also had a 3" dia head lamp in line as well. Please keep in mind I am using much larger ceramic magnets. This was a big experiment outside of the norm!

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps807e2a13.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17568428.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps444afdf5.jpg

    http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e863e59.jpg

    The point being is that the trigger circuit is a A/C alternator. The bigger the magnets the more power that is produced. The more windings the higher the voltage. The higher the RPM the higher the power. So as you can see there are a lot of voltage and power variables that effect the tuning of the transistors. Most of this is RPM sensitive. As your RPM goes of the scale so does the power and voltage and now you see the multiple spikes as the voltage rises. As this voltage rises you need to limit the A/C trigger power down to one spike. I cannot tell you what you need to do because you are outside the box of the regular SG......but RPM may be the problem as I saw in your video. I know everyone here loves the high RPM's but you need to keep in mind is that the triggering is effected by the speed or RPM. At a low RPM the SG will fire just fine but as the speed increases the firing changes because the voltage wave amplitude changes as well......makes a longer and longer duration for the transistor to fire on.

    Here is a quick way to prove my point. Put and automotive taillight bulb on the empty trigger cuircuit and see what happens as the machine ramps up in speed. This will show you the problem. The bulb will gain brightness as the RPM increases. You need to limit this power. In my pictures you will see a very large resistor in my hand that was burned in two by all this power. I contained it by the use of a head lamp and a very large variable resistor in series with each other to limit this power to the transistors. It works well! A lot of experimenting to find the answer.

    This is why JB uses a fan on his SG demonstration model to limit the speed of the wheel. He knows that the RPM is his enemy in regards to the trigger circuit power and effects the transistor firing. The fan just happens to be a very good governor. I know it looks cool but the fan is a very important part of this issue. JB is an excellent physicist and has told us everthing we need to know on how to build a SG machine......but .......he has not told us everything he knows about it. That is for us to figure out!

    Hope this helps you out.

    Bud

    In light of the fact that this device is a 1:1 transformer, it is in the best interest of the designer to come up with an alternative switching method, the mutual induction between your power coil and trigger coil is not working to your benefit. The trigger is seen as a dead short all the time, and your collapsing field is inducing a field inside the trigger which is almost equal to the power pulse itself. This is the magic, but the circuit isn't designed to give you this energy. Any attempt at trying to take this energy out of the trigger results in the circuit changing its frequency, this results in consumption decrease and the gain mechanism disappears.

    The heating in the pots is not caused by generator action alone, it is the combined generator and transformer action the two are in phase in the pickup coil, the pickup coil here being your trigger winding. I have seen losses as high as 200 watts in my trigger circuit. In that particular setup the recovery fluctuated between 50-60% , imagine what it could have been if the trigger wasn't dissipating 200 watts.

    To get the power out you want a mismatched impedance network. This was demonstrated wasn't it? The SG as presented is a mismatched impedance network isn't it? the small winding on the trigger versus the large power winding...? you see the shift, you see to which strand the energy coheres don't you?

    my two cents....


    Regards
    Last edited by erfinder; 03-12-2014 at 05:33 AM.

  9. #39
    awesome information , I have just given a glimpse, I'll need to come back to this. Thanks godzilla, john k, I need to check it out!

    @godzilla : I have a 8 18# awg coil, would you, byt the light of your experience, advise me to resell it or to keep it, to set a multi coil SG (my base coil is 7+1 , #20 and #23 wire).
    Thank you.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Forrest's Avatar
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    erfinder, good stuff! I did forget about the collapsing field entering into the trigger circuit. So with this setup we have A/C and negative energy effecting the trigger of the transistors. Now it starts to make perfect sense where all this power is coming from.

    Bud
    Do not procrastinate! Make something happen...even if it is wrong. Once begun half done!

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