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Thread: Device and method of a back emf permanent electromagnetic motor generator

  1. #21
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    I agree with much of what you are talking about, but you have not answered on the presence of the 3rd shorting Iron bar (is it in the middle..?) Flynn Parallel path technology..n
    how does that co-relate here in this Patent.
    This Patent is clearly a Motor in one pulse and an Energizer in the next, yes as far as the Geometry goes.. look for the one which caters both the functions... i have wound the coils that way..
    if you closely observe ..the third winding coil does a dual function..1) its a part of the Trifilar combination 2) it feeds an out put Battery with just a single Diode when external battery charging is a need. the Bridge module is for feeding the Power back into the source Battery.(G-Field Style)
    The Torque is severe unlike the Monopole SG. (look at the speed reduction gears shown in the FEG pictures),
    the Monopole is a Speed Motor..
    This one is a Torque Motor...
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  2. #22
    Faraday88,

    Do you have skype?

  3. #23
    Faraday88,

    I think this device is a Mag Amp, control winding regulates AC output, and functions as motor. Being clever, a non destructive generator function (G-Field) was incorporated, making it a mag amp in the true sense where the DC bias is used to regulate the AC output of the generator. So one could be bold and say that this is a "Self exciting Mag Amplifer Motor/Generator". This device is one of the most well thought out machines that I have ever had the pleasure of trying to understand!

    Motor probably isn't the best term, I would call it a stable prime mover for a generator. The torque that it is capable of generating is for overcoming the magnetic lock. In the Bedini patent, there is no "3rd" shorting iron bar, I only mentioned the Flynn device as it relates to pure magnetic switching, it is related to this patent, however, his (Flynn) approach makes the underlying principles much too difficult to comprehend, and he has made making the connection to the Mag Amp impossible.

    I recommend you look at the (Bedini) patent again after you have studied the operating principles of magnetic amplifiers. After studying, try and find the DC control winding in the patent illustrations. You will see that the control coil(s) are the motor coils. Mag Amps regulate AC....here, the AC which is to be regulated, is generated in the very the machine that is going to be doing the regulating! That being said, one has to ensure that the motor and generator coils are non inductive, meaning like in the magnetic amplifier, there is no induction between the motor and generator coils.

    Its a twisted awesome world that the designer of this thing lives in! I really don't think anyone knows what they are being shown! We are being shown everything, we aren't being told everything. The images (patent figures, scope shots, book images) are screaming truth at us but we don't see it. We choose to lack the vision. Owing to this lack of vision, we will not penetrate and master the the meaning of "increasing the reactive cross section" which is the key to getting more out of this design topology.

    Vision....get it back, without it we are just chasing a phantom!


    Regards
    Last edited by erfinder; 10-10-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  4. #24
    Hi Faraday88,
    When using the shorting bar there are no coils,

    no electrical circuit,

    no electrical input.

    There is a rotor with magnets,

    iron pole pieces,

    magnet between the iron pole pieces

    and an iron shorting bar.

    Use the picture in the patent to visualize this.

    In your picture:
    Remove the coils.
    Use a piece of iron similar in girth to your pole pieces ( they are iron, are they not?) and review previous posts.

    I'm not an expert nor am I the school master.

    This thread is to simply share what I'm doing.

    Others posters can have at it as they will.

    bro d
    Last edited by brodonh; 10-10-2013 at 10:33 AM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erfinder View Post
    Faraday88,

    I think this device is a Mag Amp, control winding regulates AC output, and functions as motor. Being clever, a non destructive generator function (G-Field) was incorporated, making it a mag amp in the true sense where the DC bias is used to regulate the AC output of the generator. So one could be bold and say that this is a "Self exciting Mag Amplifer Motor/Generator". This device is one of the most well thought out machines that I have ever had the pleasure of trying to understand!

    Motor probably isn't the best term, I would call it a stable prime mover for a generator. The torque that it is capable of generating is for overcoming the magnetic lock. In the Bedini patent, there is no "3rd" shorting iron bar, I only mentioned the Flynn device as it relates to pure magnetic switching, it is related to this patent, however, his (Flynn) approach makes the underlying principles much too difficult to comprehend, and he has made making the connection to the Mag Amp impossible.

    I recommend you look at the (Bedini) patent again after you have studied the operating principles of magnetic amplifiers. After studying, try and find the DC control winding in the patent illustrations. You will see that the control coil(s) are the motor coils. Mag Amps regulate AC....here, the AC which is to be regulated, is generated in the very the machine that is going to be doing the regulating! That being said, one has to ensure that the motor and generator coils are non inductive, meaning like in the magnetic amplifier, there is no induction between the motor and generator coils.

    Its a twisted awesome world that the designer of this thing lives in! I really don't think anyone knows what they are being shown! We are being shown everything, we aren't being told everything. The images (patent figures, scope shots, book images) are screaming truth at us but we don't see it. We choose to lack the vision. Owing to this lack of vision, we will not penetrate and master the the meaning of "increasing the reactive cross section" which is the key to getting more out of this design topology.

    Vision....get it back, without it we are just chasing a phantom!


    Regards
    Hi erfinder,
    I'm impressed with your insight on the Mag Amp perspective.. but i reserve my thought on the speculation aspect on this patent, since i am blessed with good degree of intuitive speculation (i do'nt mean you are not), I have studied JB very closely (7-8 years now), all these patents are one and the same But shaped or altered to cater a specific need...if you observe Pat 6,545,444 it is again another embodiment of the G-field.. JB researched the G-Field in his younger days (1970's) He later gets it to the SG design to include a the 'SPEED MOTOR' as The G-Field does not require Torque UNDER LOAD..this is one type of the energizer that we are talking about.
    The Present Patent under discussion is in a way self fed and inverted to get Torque out of the Speed, yes its a Ping pong effect in action.
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  6. #26

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by brodonh View Post
    What I see is a battery powered device setup like in the patent. I saw one transistor so it could be operating on the SG circuit, open to discussion. I ran my first tests using the SG circuit for simplicity sake, then moved to something better suited. It appears (no way of knowing for sure) that the FWBR is connected like in the patent, the bridge feeds a cap (value unknown). The cap is then discharged into a 7.5W 125V incandescent lamp via a micro switch.

    I built this machine, (see attached image....built it using what many will say are the wrong magnets....see link) and know now that what we see here in this video isn't all there is to this machine, hell the patent makes that clear. When you read the patent we are led to believe that this is it! I have no doubt about that! This device according to the patent shows us how to tap the heretofore untapped potential which surrounds a power EMF circuit. The patent tells us that there is an enormous potential in the space around our circuit, some 10^13 times as great as that which we use to drive the circuit!!! My focus is on the mechanism which enables one to tap into that 10^13... the mechanism is also mentioned in the patent.

    So I repeat...it is my opinion that the device in that video is not limited that which was demonstrated. There is far more going on.

    Regards
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #28
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
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    Hi erfinder,
    Yes i'm in line with you, certainly there is indeed more than what is shown, but never the less what is shown is also significant proof of principle to the claims.
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

  9. #29
    Hi All,
    Got my 2nd iteration running.
    My coils are 525turns of #22 wire.
    The mags in my rotor are 3/4" X 1"D (too strong for both builds)
    The iron is 1/2"sq with the added small pieces
    I backed the rotor away from the iron bars enough for it to run at 24v and it is still sluggish.
    In my thinking, it seemed that the motor would run without the Magnet (#21 in patent) between the pole pieces and it will.

    Is the only purpose of that magnet to make the rotor attraction stronger?

    I'm thinking that coils that will produce a violent repulsion of rotor mags at low voltage would be ideal.
    Then one would have to deal with spike voltage that is very high.
    I suspect that John B's engineering skills have lead him to know the most efficient relationships including the math.

    So........we want:
    Max repulsion of mag rotor at minimum power input.
    Rotor size and weight for best efficiency in relation to coil effectiveness.
    Mag strength (rotor and #21) for max attraction/max repulsion.
    Gen coil size could be different than pwr coil depending on desired application.

    I've got to get more acquainted with coil "engineering".

    Thanks for the pic, Erfinder. What did you see regarding torque?

    John seems to have enough to accelerate under load of his geared down pulleys.

    Thanks for all the input.

    bro d

  10. #30
    Hi All,

    I've reduced the mag strength of the rotor mags by 1/3 and used 2 of my trifilar #22 winding for the pwr winding for freer amp flow.

    Running it on 18v, 150ma and it runs much better. The gen winding goes into a FWBR and then to a comparator cap pulser with 2, 15,000uF caps. It is pulsing a battery at 19v every 2.25sec.

    Very little torque. A single coil multistrand SSG bike wheel has much more torque.

    My build is very imprecise but it is good to get acquainted with the "personality" of the patent concept.

    The patent cct is a half B/C and I'm using mjl trannys with a pot in addition to the 1k resistor going into the base of the small PNP.

    No heat with my amp draw at 18v.

    I expect to let it run all night and see what we have in the AM.

    Perhaps Mr Bedini could chime in with some tips for scaling up and heading us toward max efficiency.

    thanks,


    bro d
    Last edited by brodonh; 10-12-2013 at 11:59 AM.

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