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Thread: My Mode 3 - In action

  1. #1

    My Mode 3 - In action

    Solavei
    I have setup my monopole in a new configuration based on the information Mr. Bedini gave in Part 33 of the energy series and I wanted to share.

    This is not a true Mode 3 because it is not using a comparator circuit however the results of what I am doing are pretty close. The difference is that my system is timed by a micro controller for which I can code the off period and the on period of the control signal which dumps the cap. The timing is completely adjustable.

    The following test runs were done to emulate what Mr. Bedini showed in the video as closely as possible. I am charging the cap to 25v and dumping to the charge battery on the negative rail, positive is connected parallel from the cap to the battery. The monopole is running in generator mode, so we have what Mr. Bedini showed with the acceptation that my cap triggering is different.

    The duty cycle is set as such (coded on micro controller)
    1.5 seconds OFF
    0.5 seconds ON (when on we are dumping the cap)

    At the speed I am running the monopole this charges the cap to 25v and then dumps a 4A pulse and then it repeats.

    I would estimate the primary draw is between 1A - -1.25A. It is hard to say because it jumps around on the meter. What is not shown in the video is the additional draw of the micro controller because it is hooked directly to the primary and not through the amp meter. It pulls around 40ma to power itself and provide the gate pulse to the Mosfets.

    The charge battery is a typical Garden tractor type. This battery was brought back from the grave by a different machine but I mention it because this is not a new battery. It was given to me after years of service in a friends tractor until it would not start anymore and the battery would not charge for him ;-)

    Charge_Battery.jpg

    The load we are using is a 13.5v,,, 5Watt automotive interior lamp.

    The capacitor is 60k uf in a single package. Notice the shape of this cap, tall skinny like a flash cap.

    Here is a wide shot of the whole system on the bench.

    Mode3_Setup.jpg

    The chart is showing five complete cycles done consecutively. Each stage is 1000 seconds which you can see at the bottom of the chart. That works out to be 16.66 min each.

    I have marked each stage on the chart so you can understand what you are looking at.

    “R” This is a rest period (1000 sec)
    “L” This is a load period (1000 sec)
    “R” This is a rest period (1000 sec)
    “C” This is a charge period (1000 sec)

    So that is a complete cycle of which we have five of them on the chart. The battery was pretty well charged to start with. This chart is to show pulling a load and charging back up then doing it again. It is not intended as a chart for looking at a full charge cycle from dead to charge. In fact I did not let these charges peak, it was based on the 1000 seconds per stage to keep everything even.

    Mode3_Chart.jpg

    To get an idea of this thing running I have uploaded a short video.

    https://files.secureserver.net/0sEJsTyOxjoENu

    I would like to thank Tom, John, and Eric over at TeslagenX for the awesome products and services they provide and the forum moderation.

    And most especially thank you Mr. Bedini for sharing your work with the rest of us! ----Bob
    Last edited by BobZilla; 09-21-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #2
    So what happens when you make a 10 coiler like this? Got any plans for a big bank of batteries?

  3. #3
    For now I am going to run this thing just like it is. I have mostly been playing with that garden battery since I made the cap dump for it. I use that battery and a tiny inverter to charge my phone and laptop on a daily basis.

    Next thing to do with it is going to be to throw my larger batteries on it, I have some 100AH and 75AH deep cell AGMs to try charging on it. I tell you what, that wheel is much more powerful in this configuration than it was as a regular mode 1 machine. It would not really charge a large battery before the modifications. This is a pretty small machine after all, 8 inch wheel.

    I'm not sure if this machine can handle it but you are asking what's next,, Tom has slave boards and I was thinking about adding that too it and a second cap dump. I really want to build a bigger machine but you know how it goes, one can never be happy with what they have. ----Bob

  4. #4
    I wanted to follow up with an observation and a question if anyone wants to take a stab at it.

    I have been playing around with different timing adjustments and I am not sure yet which may be better.

    Shorter off times will result obviously in faster pulses but at a lower current. What I mean is in the previous example I had 1.5 seconds off, 0.5 on which resulted in about a 25v 4 amp pulse. On the micro controller this is 1500, 500..

    If I adjust to 500 off, 50 on I can get many more pulses but of course they are at around 2 amps with the voltage only rising to about 20v. I wonder which is better, more pulses at a lower current or higher current at a slower rate? I will continue to experiment with it to find out for myself but I was wondering if anyone has opinions about the two approaches to pulsing.

    I am thinking that the shorter pulses may be better but not sure just yet. What is observable right away is that the cap voltage stays in a higher state because of the short on time. Basically it wiggles between 20v and 16v very rapidly, with a longer off time it swings as in the video between 25v and 14v. It may be beneficial to keep the cap at a more constant pressure. I know that the dump voltage must at least be a few volts above the charge battery or it will not charge but I wonder where the optimum trade off is between time/current.

    The primary draw smooths out much more with the short pulses, as if there is a steady load on it instead of swinging around so much. It seems to charge well either way but I am curious which would be best.

  5. #5
    Great set up!

    I'm not too sure but have also been wanting to know which is better. Maybe its a question of how long the run battery lasts if you where doing big pulses as opposed to many small pulses. 2A is pretty good though. I would also think that the bigger the battery the bigger the pulse required. All this I'm sure you know just wanted to toss in my 2 cents. Hopefully someone can shed some light.

    One a side note would you be willing to post a brief schematic of your MOSFET dumping circuit. I'm working on building one very similar and I'm currently using it to time an SSR to dump into my Charge battery. However I'm quite sure the SSR is damping the peaks of my output pulses. I have some nice Power FETS but am having some trouble getting them to stay off. I can make a simple circuit and the work, even test it out with an Ohms meter but as soon as I put it in the circuit the MOSFET won't shut off.

    Anyway it all takes time...

  6. #6
    I did some experimental test runs with different timing too compare the results. Now obviously there are other variables at work here and this is only two runs so it is not enough to be conclusive but I think it does demonstrate a basic behavior.

    First let me say that in these charts I have the machine running in regular mode 1 with cap dump. I wanted to compare this to the same runs under mode 3 but I have not had time to do the mode 3 runs yet.

    So in the first run I have the machine drawing at just about 1A. I have the timing set to 250ms OFF/ 100ms ON. That resulted in about 16v cap voltage with 1A dump current very rapidly. I changed the discharge load up to a 10 watt lamp this time and loaded for 2000 seconds. The charge came back up in 5000 seconds ( it’s all in the chart)This configuration charged the battery very well.

    Mode1_250_100.jpg

    The second test used the same load and rest/load times. On this run the timing was set to 1500ms OFF/ 100ms ON. This resulted in a cap voltage of about 25v and a 4A dump current. I wanted to keep the ON time at the same as previous for a good comparison of just the pulse frequency and not the amplitude.

    This charge took longer and in general just does not look as good as the previous one. I think what is very telling is to notice the green section that floats above the blue. This is a quick voltage spike. It looks to me like it must be excess that is not being absorbed. I suspect that this will change with different batteries but what is optimal is to find the frequency to where you are not over doing it. (more like the first chart)

    For this particular battery I think it is obvious that 1A pulses at a fast rate are absorbed much better than 4A at a slower rate. Look closely at those charts, especially the green section and hopefully you understand what I am saying.

    Mode1_1500_100.jpg

    Joster,
    I will draw up the circuit and post it for you a little later. Keep in mind that I installed a switch on the monopole to go between mode 1 and mode 3, so I do not recommend powering the arduino directly from the primary. In mode 3 I was doing that just fine but I would not try it in mode 1. Just use a separate supply. I put a little 5ah 12volt on it for mine.

  7. #7
    Here is the circuit Joster, excuse the crude drawing ;-)

    Hope it helps!

    Aurduino_cap_circuit.jpg

    And a close-up of the board although you cannot see the connections because they are on the underside.
    closeup.jpg
    Last edited by BobZilla; 09-27-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #8
    thanks! that's a great help!

    You are doing some awesome work. I will see if I can duplicate your findings and report back. May need a week or so but I will for sure.

  9. #9
    also,

    I wanted to know where you got that wicked cap! and if it's an actual photo flash. I have 4 6800uF photo flash caps that seem to be working ok.

    Regarding the schematic. I assume that that's the drain connected to the negative of the charge battery and the source is connected to the negative of the cap. I wanted to ask what is the purpose of the diode? The way it is drawn seems to be backwards but I must be missing something. I will be able to graph the charging with my CBA 4 when I attempt to duplicate what you have found.

    cheers

    Joe

  10. #10
    Solavei
    It is not a mistake, but I knew you would look at that and ask ;-)

    Just try it out bro, you can use any mosfet on a breadboard with a small cap and a small diode. In fact when I was testing it out I used a breadboard, a 1N4007 and a small 1500uf cap, my testing fet was from radio shack, just a run of he mill mosfet..

    I know it look backwards but everything I drew is how I meant it to be and how my circuit runs.

    You and I are running similar systems and I think it wold be great to collaborate. I got that cap at mouser, go back to that "help with mosfet" post for the details on that. I don't think it is an actual flash cap but it is shaped as one. Those tall skinny's dump better but honestly any cap will work.

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