My Mode 3 - In action

[BobZilla]

Greetings friends,

I have an interesting concept I am working with for cap-dumping and I wanted to share.

Before I get to the charts and video I want to explain what I am trying to accomplish and the theory behind it.

Mr. Bedini told a story of Mr. Tesla observing the radiant energy rushing in on the old DC power plant transmission lines. The condition for this was that the generators were already up and running with high voltage but the knife switch had not been thrown to start the distribution from the generator to the endpoints. Well we know that it doesn’t really come from the generator (thanks to Mr. Bearden) but that is not the point.

What is described is the condition where you have a voltage potential without current flow. The radiant flows in just before the current begins moving, when the distribution switch was thrown. It only lasts for a VERY short period of time that exists before the slower current can start to move behind the radiant.

With the very high voltages of those old power plant generators it was described that they could actually see the energy suck in towards the line and display massive arcs. We cannot see this behavior in our systems but it is there.

Now with that understanding I want to explain what my experimental cap dump method is doing. I started out playing with different timing loops for dumping the same as everyone else. I found what seemed to work the best and was pretty happy with my results. Then I started thinking about the heart of the matter, dipoles! This is where the magic happens both on the cap dumps and within the SG circuit all forms of radiant harvesting are one way or another tricking dipoles into giving up some energy.

My system is an attempt to maximize dipole contribution. I knew that each dump from the cap was producing a dipole event but could this be improved? YES, I think it can!

In my system think of the capacitor as the power plant, it is sitting there with a voltage potential greater than the charge battery, and for periods it is not moving current. The Mosfets take the place of the knife switch on the distribution lines. What I am doing is giving a charge period on the cap and dumping it with a somewhat short period, that is the first phase but there is more. I have it timed so that the cap does not give up all of its potential in that first dump. As it is dumping I switch it off, then on for a very short period, off again, on again, many times before the first phase repeats.

The idea is to create a charge with phase one and then distribute it by rapidly throwing the switch which creates many dipole events per single charge pump cycle. We have to raise the potential to charge but we do not have to release it all at once. I want to harvest as many dipoles as I can out of that initial charge on the cap.


It results in about a 2A pulse, and then many 1A or less pulses trailing the primary pulse very rapidly. I envision it like a tap dancer on the capacitor; he activates the dipole once with a hard step and then tickles it many more times lightly. Each time the circuit makes and breaks the dipole to allow more radiant to flow in (in theory).

Of course we have no meters for radiant to prove that this is working but from my understanding of Mr. Tesla’s observation I am creating a mini power plant (the cap) with an insanely fast switch operator (micro controlled Mosfets), on a much smaller scale.

In addition to the basic principal I am intentionally creating a time-shift in the “dance” pulses. Some are 65, 75, 85, 125. I do this with the idea that this energy has been said to be like a gas, or a liquid if it’s easier to think of that way. I am creating abnormal amplitude changes by manipulating the time.

Imagine if you could look at some ripples on water from a 2d side perspective. If they all came at exactly at the same time say 50/50, and you could only see a narrow view at the lowest point on the wave. This would always look the same amplitude and if you could only harvest that energy from that single perspective you may be missing the best potential at the top of the wave right? So by changing up the time on my “waves” I am creating a moving center point where I think it is more likely for varying degrees of energy to enter. To put it another way I do not want a perfect wave over and over, I am mixing it up to allow for a greater potential.

Here is the code I am using to make these dipole events happen. The cap dumper is driven by an Arduino micro controller. I have a 5AH supply battery running it which is isolated from the rest of the circuit. It draws only about 45ma to power the board and fire the Mosfet gates.

int mosfet = 4;
void setup() {
pinMode(mosfet, OUTPUT);}
void loop() {
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (600) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (75) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (85) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (125) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (175) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (75) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (85) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (125) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (175) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, LOW) ;
delay (65) ;
digitalWrite(mosfet, HIGH) ;
delay (65) ;
}

One thing to note is that the shortest time in the system is 65ms. This is because the Mosfets can not switch properly if I try to go any shorter, they are fast but do have a limit.

I am still experimenting heavily with the proper timing and how many events to try and trigger but the basis of the theory is there.

The cap is being charged to 23v and falls back to about 18v before the cycle repeats. The primary draw is about 1.2A, it bounces around with the cap discharges so it is hard to say exactly. I also did this run on the fixed resistor instead of the pot which makes it draw harder at first but as the primary voltage drops so does the draw. I usually use the pot and make adjustments as the primary draws down.

The chart looks a little choppy on the curve because of the odd timings involved. The meter only samples once per second so we are catching it in the chart at different phases of the cycle.

Here is a chart of 17AH AGM, but it has been flooded. This is a salvaged battery that I have converted to a wet cell. I could have stopped the charge many hours before I did but I think this particular battery could still use some conditioning so I let it run a bit long. It is hard to see on the chart but the battery was dead to start, about 12.1v. I should have put a long rest period before starting but I forgot to do that. As the chart builds it shrinks up and it is hard to see the starting voltage.

dipoleDancing.jpg

And finally I have a video for those interested in seeing this in action. Look closely at the Amp meter and you will see the “dancing”. I am also showing the RPM and temp checks on the components. Note that this machine is running in generator mode as shown by Mr. Bedini in part 33 DVD. This system is tuned well and I have virtually no heat. I do not think I needed the heat sinks but they are already attached. The diode on the dump board gets a few degrees above the rest of the components but that is about it.

https://files.secureserver.net/0s5hQtZsNYxa5F

Thanks----Bob

[Nofear]

Hi Bob,
Good job, I like your setup.
I understand what you are doing, it's an interesting idea. One though comes to mind though, I remember in the intermediate monopole handbook Peter L was explaining that the capacitor similar to the one you're using can have the tendency to behave like an electret. Meaning that it's charge/discharge Voltage vs time response is a bit elastic for the lack of a better term. I am just guessing that for what you are trying to do may be a capacitor type with a more rigid discharge characteristic would be better suited for a machine gun style discharge.
Another thing come to mind, in all this you haven't indicated any measurable (or measured) benefit to the battery. Or may be you did and my eyes glaze over it...I haven's had my coffee yet.

I am kind of doing a similar thing....or not really I run a solid state energizer and I don't use capacitors, I like my radiant raw please. My testing is taking longer then expected. I will report back when it's all over.

Keep up the good work bob.

NoFear

[BobZilla]

Hi NoFear,

Thanks for the comments. For the capacitor, I have found this one to work very well actually. It has a super fast discharge because it is the tall skinny type which is actually what Peter recommends. I will have to go back and read that section of the book again to see if I am missing something.

I do not try all too hard to prove out gains because it is all questionable. Batteries do not always have their rated capacity, meters can lie, it is hard to accurately measure with great precision how much energy I am using or gaining. I try more to just share my ideas and experiments so that others can perhaps gain something from it.

For battery benefit I would say that the pulse action does help with breaking up sulphate, it is the difference between applying an even pressure and a knocking effect. With even pressure nothing gives but pulsing has a bit of a push/pull affect. If you were to push evenly on a shelf say with a house of cards on it nothing would happen, if you knocked on that shelf eventually a momentum would build up and knock them down, well anyway you get what I mean I hope. I imagine with larger pulses (4-7A) it would be more beneficial but that is not my main focus when running this way. The idea is to not only harvest radiant from the main machine but to also have a secondary effect across the capacitor. The only way to do that is to have very short pulses and a lot of them which does not lend itself to creating large pulses.

I am with you on the raw radiant! I have many systems for different jobs. The main reason I am fooling with the cap dumps is to charge primary's. Once you have a sustainable method for that than I too would charge my secondaries with good old raw mode one. You really see a benefit in the batteries over time from that.

[BobZilla]

Hi Mike,
Your computer is fine ;-)

I removed audio from the file to make it a little smaller file size. I figure the text in the post explains what you are seeing so other than the sound of some bearings you don't miss much.

I appreciate that you like the machine. It is not really as nice as it could have been. I made the wheel a long time ago and it is not perfectly balanced, some of the magnets are slightly crooked, minor issues but at the time i did not have experience enough to know that I should have been more careful. It does run nicely and it is tuned very well but mechanically it could have been better. That particular machine has been my basic model to swap stuff around and try things out. Now that I understand this stuff much better I am actually working on a new machine that will be more powerful and better balanced. It is going to have a 28inch wheel and 8 transistors. I have also purchased some ultra fast diodes and all 1 percent resistors. The diodes also have a lower voltage drop than what we normally work with. Tuning is going to be a little tricky but I have a pretty good understanding of the circuit. The transistors are coming from Teslagenx and have been matched by them.

Bob Boyce huh,, cool! I am a little familiar with his work. I have a friend who is into building hydrogen on demand systems and he mentions him often. My buddy and I have done some fun stuff driving his bubblers with my Bedini circuits ;-)

The arduino platform is very easy to work with. I have big ideas for the new machine. For example I think I will put a genny coil back popper on it and use the micro controller to cut the primary draw while it pops, then switch back on. That should give me longer run times. Anyway that will all be some future post. ----Bob

[BobZilla]

Ok guys I have a new curve ball to throw to you ;-)

After much testing and changing things around I have a little improvement too the setup.

I have been exploring this idea of triggering more dipole events on the cap, same idea as before but I have figured something out.

What I have done is make a new cap dump board with only one mosfet and I upgrade the diode to a fast switching 8 amp diode. I wanted cleaner switching and I figured the four mosfets on the other board were probably not triggering at the same time, same issue we have with matching transistors. I am getting a little heat now because it is only one mosfet but it is still not bad, about 20 degrees over the rest of the circuit components. That is not the thing I want to share but it is worth mentioning for anyone keeping track of how this system is setup.

What I want to share is that I have figured out how to get these dipole events to appear on the cap with repetition and they are producing 400v spikes. This is what I was trying for all along and now I can actually see it happening on my meter.

The key to what I am doing is first off I have to dump on at least 40v in the cap or the large spikes do not appear. The challenge with my system is that it is not strong enough to keep that large cap (60,000uf) in there and still dump with enough frequency to move the battery very well. I can hold it back for 6 seconds and get enough charge but dumping once per 6 seconds does not move the battery very well. As usual it is all a matter of tuning. I had to swap out to a smaller cap arrangement.

I have a 1000uf on it currently which charges up to about 45v in 250ms, then I dump for 250ms, then some “dance pulses” 55,65,35 and then it repeats. Because I am now working with such a small capacitance I had to decrease the amount of dance pulses. I can take this idea farther when I get my stronger machine built. This shows up on the Amp meter as about a 1A dump to the battery, not very much but it is happening nearly twice a second.

What I have observed for good cap dumping in general is that the dumps must happen with a certain speed or the battery will not move very well. It can change depending on the target battery but generally quicker seems better. You want to size your cap to be able to charge to whatever voltage you like BUT it must be able to do it fast enough. When I have a stronger machine I can double or triple the cap size and still keep the short charge time for the cap but for now I have to downsize to accommodate this method I am trying.

The key to what I am presenting in this update is that to get the really nice 400V spikes you need to dump on at least 40v. I tried dialing back the frequency with various caps and on every configuration I did not see these large spikes until I was going over 40v. I tried it with the 60k cap, could do it but only if I let the charge build for 6 seconds. I tried it with a 15k, again had to let it build for about 2.5 seconds. I see the best charging if I keep the dump cycle at one second or less so the only way to do it was to downsize the cap until I could achieve that cycle rate ( with this machine).

I had hopes of charging large batteries with this machine but I just don’t think it can accommodate. I can charge garden tractor batteries and small AGM’s no problem but my 75AH and 100AH are not going to do it on this machine. I mean I can get it to charge them but it takes way too long for my liking. I am fine with it though. I have a ton of small batteries and this machine is fine for them. It has been a great experimenting platform and now I want to scale up with what I am learning from it.


Here you see a chart of the cap voltage. It is dumping at 46v or so but the dipoles are contributing 400v, over and over! I need to do much more testing but this is what I have been looking for. I am pretty happy with this performance. Remember the chart only samples once per second so there are things happening that it does not always catch.


Again this is charting directly off the CAP to watch the dump cycle.

(The forum pictures hosting is not working so I am hosting these on my web storage. If you click the "download" button you will get a much better resolution than the preview on the link, same for video.)

https://files.secureserver.net/0swaxIKnzM6zZW


And here is the charge curve for the same period. The target battery is the same garden tractor one I used in the beginning of this post. It was not dead to start but not charged either. It was resting at about 12.52v The primary draw is just over 1A, maybe 1.10 – 1.18, again there is a little bouncing on the meter.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sn6GrW3lCW2pz

Here is another video so you can see it in action.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sq3iS0e5LrwVt


It is too early to say really if this is of great benefit but I am happy that I am able to produce the effect at will. I think what I may do is compare some runs like this and then lower my cap dump down to about 35V, just under where the spikes appear to see what effect it has on charging, and the primary. I have to believe that inducing these 400v spikes contributes to the gains but more testing to come.

SO many ways to tune these circuits! ------Bob

[EMP]

Hats off to you for tackling the arduino Bob! I bought one for the very same reason....The cap dump!!! I have fried more components trying to get a reliable cap dump circuit working over the last 6 months and then I heard about these wonderful micro controllers. It took me a while to get the hang of programming it but there's no looking back now. Cap dump, frequency meter, back popper, oscillator driver, battery swapper...It's all possible now.

it's funny that you mentioned the radiant energy released when a switch closes. I'm not 100% sure but when my cap discharges, I'm seeing what looks like a radiant spike extending downwards on the scope for about 4 volts. In other words my cap discharges at 30 volts down to 23 volts for under 1 ms then jumps back up to 27 volts after that 1 ms and ramps back up to 30 volts from there. I didn't see this with my other dumping setups. Maybe I wasn't driving the mosfet gate high enough?

I've only had the setup working for a few weeks or so and I've dumped caps from 750uf at an insane rate to .4F with this thing and man what a difference. When I dumped the .4F cap the noise was somthing to behold. usually a cap dump sounds like a clock tick but when the energy hit the batteries, it sounded more like a loud clock TOCK. It scared the hell out of me and I immediatly shut it down.I thought the batteries were going to explode.I don't recomend working with these monster caps unless you know exactly what you are doing. I don't ...so for now I'll just stay alive, put them aside and work with the little guys.

The thing I find most usefull about using the arduino cap dump and it's frequency meter is you can play the "what if" game. I'm using it to evaluate the different components of the oscillator by keeping the input current constant and noting the frequency of the cap dump. Then you can try different diodes, coils, cores, caps, transistors...etc and immediatly see if your change is good or bad by an increase or decrease in cap dump frequency. It's amazing what affects the sg oscillator. Just touching certain wires or hooking meters or scope probes will change the dump frequency.

A friendly suggestion for you Bob is rather than using a time based cap dump maybe use a voltage based dump. I'm using a zener diode to set the max cap voltage (an input to the arduino through an opto) and code the output to dump when the arduino sees the input. so far it seems to be very stable and repeatable but best of all....no smoke. The reason I say this is i don't know about you but I have a drawerfull of caps that have been blazed by way more voltage than they are rated for simply because of my time based cap dumps either failing or I started the system with the wrong timing. The voltage based dump always dumps at the same voltage no matter what size cap you use and you can choose when to deactivate the output in the code to dump at a fraction of a volt or all the way down to battery voltage.

I have to ask you Bob where you got that wonderful software that graphs the battery charging curve I saw in your video?

Very impressive setup Bob.

Emp

[BobZilla]

Yea I thought about running a system as you suggest, a true comparator. I know it can be done with Arduino and I may try that out down the road. The way I am doing it has advantages too though. If you really look closely at what I am doing with what I have termed "dancing" you will see that this results in multiple voltages per cycle. Basically you have the big dump and then several trailing dumps at mixed times, a little bit longer or shorter from the previous. I do this intentionally. With a comparator you would have a same state dump each time, unless you coded a second sub-cycle within your loop. As you have said SO much is possible with the programming.

You are absolutely right about little things changing, as you said add a meter here or touch a wire there. In fact I get much better results when I am not running any meters on the system. Of course for these videos I have to put them in or there is nothing too see ;-) ,, but it is best not to have any meters. I know my machine very well and I can tune it pretty much by ear now. For example when in generator mode the best thing is to get it to the best RPM you can and then release just a little resistance. What happens is the RPM goes down a little but you can hear the coil buzzing a bit. You only want to adjust it slightly in that direction, too much just wastes energy but if you do it right you get much more output. It also throws an AC wave toward the primary, not much but it is there and it can help the primary from running down quite so fast.

I generally like original mode 1 better but this thread is focused mostly on mode 3 which is gen mode with cap dumping so that is what I am showing.

The software comes with the meter you see. It is a Radio shack digital meter, they are about $80. Well worth it for people like us who play with meters all the time. If you get one just be careful about programing your Arduino and running the meter at the same time. I have found that they start to have a problem. I think they try to use the same memory block. I started using yet another little laptop I have for programing the Arduino.

Good to hear from you. It's nice to see someone else tinkering along the same lines as me. ---Bob

[min2oly]

Now I get it
- Thanks

Ok guys I have a new curve ball to throw to you ;-)

After much testing and changing things around I have a little improvement too the setup.

I have been exploring this idea of triggering more dipole events on the cap, same idea as before but I have figured something out.

What I have done is make a new cap dump board with only one mosfet and I upgrade the diode to a fast switching 8 amp diode. I wanted cleaner switching and I figured the four mosfets on the other board were probably not triggering at the same time, same issue we have with matching transistors. I am getting a little heat now because it is only one mosfet but it is still not bad, about 20 degrees over the rest of the circuit components. That is not the thing I want to share but it is worth mentioning for anyone keeping track of how this system is setup.

What I want to share is that I have figured out how to get these dipole events to appear on the cap with repetition and they are producing 400v spikes. This is what I was trying for all along and now I can actually see it happening on my meter.

The key to what I am doing is first off I have to dump on at least 40v in the cap or the large spikes do not appear. The challenge with my system is that it is not strong enough to keep that large cap (60,000uf) in there and still dump with enough frequency to move the battery very well. I can hold it back for 6 seconds and get enough charge but dumping once per 6 seconds does not move the battery very well. As usual it is all a matter of tuning. I had to swap out to a smaller cap arrangement.

I have a 1000uf on it currently which charges up to about 45v in 250ms, then I dump for 250ms, then some “dance pulses” 55,65,35 and then it repeats. Because I am now working with such a small capacitance I had to decrease the amount of dance pulses. I can take this idea farther when I get my stronger machine built. This shows up on the Amp meter as about a 1A dump to the battery, not very much but it is happening nearly twice a second.

What I have observed for good cap dumping in general is that the dumps must happen with a certain speed or the battery will not move very well. It can change depending on the target battery but generally quicker seems better. You want to size your cap to be able to charge to whatever voltage you like BUT it must be able to do it fast enough. When I have a stronger machine I can double or triple the cap size and still keep the short charge time for the cap but for now I have to downsize to accommodate this method I am trying.

The key to what I am presenting in this update is that to get the really nice 400V spikes you need to dump on at least 40v. I tried dialing back the frequency with various caps and on every configuration I did not see these large spikes until I was going over 40v. I tried it with the 60k cap, could do it but only if I let the charge build for 6 seconds. I tried it with a 15k, again had to let it build for about 2.5 seconds. I see the best charging if I keep the dump cycle at one second or less so the only way to do it was to downsize the cap until I could achieve that cycle rate ( with this machine).

I had hopes of charging large batteries with this machine but I just don’t think it can accommodate. I can charge garden tractor batteries and small AGM’s no problem but my 75AH and 100AH are not going to do it on this machine. I mean I can get it to charge them but it takes way too long for my liking. I am fine with it though. I have a ton of small batteries and this machine is fine for them. It has been a great experimenting platform and now I want to scale up with what I am learning from it.


Here you see a chart of the cap voltage. It is dumping at 46v or so but the dipoles are contributing 400v, over and over! I need to do much more testing but this is what I have been looking for. I am pretty happy with this performance. Remember the chart only samples once per second so there are things happening that it does not always catch.


Again this is charting directly off the CAP to watch the dump cycle.

(The forum pictures hosting is not working so I am hosting these on my web storage. If you click the "download" button you will get a much better resolution than the preview on the link, same for video.)

https://files.secureserver.net/0swaxIKnzM6zZW


And here is the charge curve for the same period. The target battery is the same garden tractor one I used in the beginning of this post. It was not dead to start but not charged either. It was resting at about 12.52v The primary draw is just over 1A, maybe 1.10 – 1.18, again there is a little bouncing on the meter.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sn6GrW3lCW2pz

Here is another video so you can see it in action.

https://files.secureserver.net/0sq3iS0e5LrwVt


It is too early to say really if this is of great benefit but I am happy that I am able to produce the effect at will. I think what I may do is compare some runs like this and then lower my cap dump down to about 35V, just under where the spikes appear to see what effect it has on charging, and the primary. I have to believe that inducing these 400v spikes contributes to the gains but more testing to come.

SO many ways to tune these circuits! ------Bob

[BobZilla]

You bet...

I tweaked the process a bit more after this was posted but you get the main idea.

The part about the 40v and 400v,, it is true but I did not continue using that in the more advanced dancing. In that other vid you can see what I was using at the time, basically a larger dump with trailing dance pulses, then a small dump with less trailing, and a few more same way, then back to a larger one. I did find that by changing amplitudes it seems to shake things up a bit better than just the same repetition. Sort of a combination of the code I posted above and the other I showed.

Anyway it was not the final setup, I had shared this to get people thinking and that other vid was a simple code that could be understood what I was doing. Once you understand the principal you can make much more elaborate timing code.

[min2oly]

Hi Bob,
reading this
made me think of you and this thread.
Cheers,
Patrick A.

You bet...

I tweaked the process a bit more after this was posted but you get the main idea.

The part about the 40v and 400v,, it is true but I did not continue using that in the more advanced dancing. In that other vid you can see what I was using at the time, basically a larger dump with trailing dance pulses, then a small dump with less trailing, and a few more same way, then back to a larger one. I did find that by changing amplitudes it seems to shake things up a bit better than just the same repetition. Sort of a combination of the code I posted above and the other I showed.

Anyway it was not the final setup, I had shared this to get people thinking and that other vid was a simple code that could be understood what I was doing. Once you understand the principal you can make much more elaborate timing code.