Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX


2019 ESTC ALL SEATS SOLD OUT!
PRE-REGISTER FOR THE
2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE

Monero XMR

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: How to power this APPLIANCE - do you know how ?

  1. #1

    How to power this APPLIANCE - do you know how ?

    Hi Folks,

    Here is my problem. I need a real solution.

    I want to power this device potentially 8 hours of the day

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Comfort-Zon...9/332731280178

    Two of these devices comfortable heats an 1100 sq ft they are safe and have auto shut off.

    I bought solar panels and deep cycle batteries only to find out that running this simple one little device isn't even possible.

    Is there a solution? Average person doesn't have a 4-6 kw solar solution and I am very disappointed in the solar panel industry for running ahead without even being able to power a simple space heater 7x24

    Someone selling a bedini motor says even a bedini power motor isn't practical to power a battery bank instead of solar panels.

    How would you power this device ?

    If humanity cannot solve this I think its very disappointing

    My UNIT TEST
    I unit tested the setup outlined below
    o the heater was running
    o within 1 minute PROSine inverter beeped LOW BATTERY POWER and 25vDC started to falling to 19vDC
    o connected Klein CL2100 for DC amps on positive battery bank cable it showed 078.5 not sure what that meant

    feedback appreciated

    One of my issues is calculating how big a battery bank I need to sustain this simple little ceramic heater with a strong enough charge to run it hour to hour or even every other hour would work too

    - cheers


    -- signature
    24vDC offgrid system

    Array 1 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC
    Array 2 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC

    So Panel setup is 2 arrays composed of 3 300watt panels each each feeding its own separate C40 charge controller jumpered at 24vDC

    Battery Bank currently 4 deep cycle 12vDC batteries wired in paralell connected serial (24vDC bank) feeds AC Inverter Xantrex 1800watt PROSine jumpered at 24vDC
    Last edited by meanstack; 07-24-2018 at 02:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    1,403
    Blog Entries
    1
    Solar to electric is very inefficient - panels are around 20%.

    Solar to heat is highly efficient and is the way to go for solar heating. Use evacuated tube solar heaters - they're in the high 90% efficiency to transfer infrared from the sun into the heat exchange fluid like glycol or something.

    The solar electric way should only be used to augment what the solar water heat can't cover.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  3. #3
    thank you for trying... not the answer Im seeking
    i spent $4500 on solar and its turned to be a scam
    just thinking about water and plumbing and installation is an outrageous thought for solar water

    I just want to plug this simple appliance into a sustainable power source...
    im totally amazed humanity has come this far and we still cant do it
    -- signature

    24vDC offgrid system

    Array 1 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC
    Array 2 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC

    So Panel setup is 2 arrays composed of 3 300watt panels each each feeding its own separate C40 charge controller

    Battery Bank currently 4 deep cycle 12vDC batteries wired in paralell connected serial feeds AC Inverter Xantrex 1800watt PROSine

  4. #4
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    1,403
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by meanstack View Post
    thank you for trying... not the answer Im seeking
    i spent $4500 on solar and its turned to be a scam
    just thinking about water and plumbing and installation is an outrageous thought for solar water

    I just want to plug this simple appliance into a sustainable power source...
    im totally amazed humanity has come this far and we still cant do it
    Almost all solar is intriniscally a scam.

    https://fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/pscrl.pdf

    Shows: Item 8. Solar photovoltaic generators (AM C)-if > 20% efficient (NASA) (AF)

    Going back to the early 70's, the Federal govt already indicated that if solar is over 20% efficient, it could potentially be shut down under the patent secrecy acts. Today, the efficiency is still pretty much the same.

    I don't know what panels you have, but crystalline are more efficient than amorphous. But that is in lab conditions. Compared to amorphous panels, it takes less square foot for the same watts. But that is a scam - because crystalline works on infrared. If clouds come, you drastically cut infrared. Amorphous being "less efficient" - but they operate on blue/green so if clouds come, you still have plenty of visible light so overall, the lower efficiency amorphous panels wind up giving you more electricity than high efficient crystalline panels.

    https://powerspotsolar.files.wordpre...arsecrets.pdfj - that is our book that explains this in detail.

    With what you already have, there may be way to use it in a more effective way.

    Post all of your exact details for your system and let's look at it.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  5. #5
    thank you friend

    here is my panels

    monocrystaline
    6 in total divided to two arrays 3 per array
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-S-ENER...S/263645232024

    here is my charge controller one per array
    https://www.altestore.com/store/puer...032/#PR-XANC40

    here are my batteries currently 4 total (2 wired parallel then combined serial)
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UB12100...e/171452211893


    here is my inverter
    https://www.altestore.com/store/inve...-switch-p2172/

    specs are on the site i tried to copy/paste but it garbled

    this setup is precise everything is metrically sound... it wont power jack maybe a fridge or well pump or some lightbulbs... I NEED HEAT...

    I feel totally raked by solar I cannot even run that simple little space heater

    so this will run the space heater... for five minutes though?
    the load on battery bank nose dives

    I thought a bedini 10 pole spoked wheel generator could do what the panels cant
    Last edited by meanstack; 07-24-2018 at 05:06 PM.
    -- signature

    24vDC offgrid system

    Array 1 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC
    Array 2 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC

    So Panel setup is 2 arrays composed of 3 300watt panels each each feeding its own separate C40 charge controller

    Battery Bank currently 4 deep cycle 12vDC batteries wired in paralell connected serial feeds AC Inverter Xantrex 1800watt PROSine

  6. #6
    for starters I think I have a battery bank capacity issue

    I dont know what the formula is to calculate capacity for battery bank to sustain this 1500watt space heater

    im thinking I need at least 1800 amp hours of battery bank capacity

    my 4 batteries only provide 400ah (correct me if im wrong) given the 4 battery setup configuration

    so I guess I would need at least 18 batteries to get 1800 ah capacity?

    and then comes the load problem

    How do I sustain a charge to this battery bank so it will run hour to hour hopefully for at least 18 hours of day
    -- signature

    24vDC offgrid system

    Array 1 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC
    Array 2 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC

    So Panel setup is 2 arrays composed of 3 300watt panels each each feeding its own separate C40 charge controller

    Battery Bank currently 4 deep cycle 12vDC batteries wired in paralell connected serial feeds AC Inverter Xantrex 1800watt PROSine

  7. #7
    Networking Architect Aaron Murakami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Washington
    Posts
    1,403
    Blog Entries
    1
    Those are very small batteries for something like this.

    For example 1500 watt heater at full blast - 1500 watts divided by 12 volts = 125 amps

    If you want to be at the 20 hour discharge rating, 125 amps x 20 hours = 2500 amp hour battery.

    If you take the amp hour rating 100 amp hours - you divide by that 20 hours, which equals 5 amps - a 100 amp hour battery can provide 5 amps for 20 hours.

    There is a 5 hour rating, which means you can draw way more for 5 hours, but you only get about 80% of the capacity. So that means at 100 amp hour, a 5 hour discharge, you'll get about 80 amp hours.

    80 amp hours divided by 5 hours = 16 amps x 12 volts = 192 watts - so a single 100 amp hour battery can at the max safely power 200 (192) watts for 5 hours.

    1500 watt heater - you need about 8 of those batteries (in parallel) at full charge to power that heater at full charge and at max for 5 hours until the batteries are dead at about 10.5 volts. That is if you're using a pretty high efficiency inverter for a 12v bank and the inverter is rated at a few thousand volts so you're not maxing it out.

    How much solar do you need? Well, 3000 volts is double the max load so under full sun 1/2 of that will power your heater while the sun is out while the panels are also giving 1500 watts to the batteries for the same period of time. When sun goes down, you draw that from the batteries for the same hours minus the loss but for simple numbers...

    Are you understanding some of what I'm saying? RS or Tom or someone else can probably give a much better and more accurate answer as they have a lot more solar experience than I do, but the battery calculations above are fairly standard.
    Aaron Murakami





    “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

  8. #8
    Senior Member Faraday88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bangaluru, Karnataka, India
    Posts
    1,513
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Murakami View Post
    Those are very small batteries for something like this.

    For example 1500 watt heater at full blast - 1500 watts divided by 12 volts = 125 amps

    If you want to be at the 20 hour discharge rating, 125 amps x 20 hours = 2500 amp hour battery.

    If you take the amp hour rating 100 amp hours - you divide by that 20 hours, which equals 5 amps - a 100 amp hour battery can provide 5 amps for 20 hours.

    There is a 5 hour rating, which means you can draw way more for 5 hours, but you only get about 80% of the capacity. So that means at 100 amp hour, a 5 hour discharge, you'll get about 80 amp hours.

    80 amp hours divided by 5 hours = 16 amps x 12 volts = 192 watts - so a single 100 amp hour battery can at the max safely power 200 (192) watts for 5 hours.

    1500 watt heater - you need about 8 of those batteries (in parallel) at full charge to power that heater at full charge and at max for 5 hours until the batteries are dead at about 10.5 volts. That is if you're using a pretty high efficiency inverter for a 12v bank and the inverter is rated at a few thousand volts so you're not maxing it out.

    How much solar do you need? Well, 3000 volts is double the max load so under full sun 1/2 of that will power your heater while the sun is out while the panels are also giving 1500 watts to the batteries for the same period of time. When sun goes down, you draw that from the batteries for the same hours minus the loss but for simple numbers...

    Are you understanding some of what I'm saying? RS or Tom or someone else can probably give a much better and more accurate answer as they have a lot more solar experience than I do, but the battery calculations above are fairly standard.
    @ Aaron Well elaborated explanation...just to add a few more things i know of.. its about some De-rating factors like the Inverter efficiency to be considered for the conversion in the calculation..
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.
    ‘Mass is the Spatial density of Matter (Particle) and the Temporal Intensity of Space (Field)’.

  9. #9
    (This is pretty much the same as what Aaron said with different wording. I'm not trying to step on Aaron's toes, but I had this already typed up last night and my internet went down before I could send it.)

    I feel for you. You got in without a lot of knowledge and it is frustrating you with the results.

    Yes this is a simple device you are trying to run as far as the electrical circuitry for a heater is concerned. However it is a monster when it comes to power consumption. Remember 1500w is the same amount of power that is needed to run 25 60w incandescent light bulbs. This means you have to shift your thinking to dealing with a device using a large amount of power. This is also why it is first recommended you invest in energy conservation measures (LED lighting, Insulation, sealing cracks, etc.) before investing in solar power in general applications.

    Lets start with 6 300w panels will give you 1800w rated value. That is under ideal lab conditions. In real life you can probably expect 1500w on a good sunny day. This means if you have your panels angled properly you should get 1 hour of 1500w use for 1 hour of good sun. This means I can't see getting 18 hours use at 1500w from these panels no matter what you do.

    Now lets look at the batteries. Rather than trying to lay too much of this out in volts and amps I will mostly try to keep things in watts to keep the math simpler and the explanation shorter. First your 4 batteries will give you 400 AH at 12 volts or 200 AH at 24 volts, it is 4800w either way. Batteries are rated at C rate which is how long you discharge for in hours to get the AH stated. I did not see a C rating listed on your batteries (to be honest it was a quick look and may have missed it), but given the example uses and that it is an AGM battery I would probably go with a C20 rating which means 240w per hour for 20 hours. If you did go with a heavy duty deep cycle use it would be C10 or 480w at 10 hours continuous draw on the batteries. Trying to draw 1500w would be about a C3 rate which means you are probably trying to draw power out faster than the battery can supply it. This will damage the battery if done on a continuing basis.

    One last thing that concerns me and you did not mention is your DC wiring. I hope all your DC wiring is 6 AWG like was recommended with the charge controller. If not, at the amperage's that you are dealing with the cables can over heat and possibly start a fire and that scares me. None of this is worth what can happen with a fire.

    I don't think I gave you the answers you were looking for, but I hope this helps with your understanding of what you are dealing with.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Luton View Post
    (This is pretty much the same as what Aaron said with different wording. I'm not trying to step on Aaron's toes, but I had this already typed up last night and my internet went down before I could send it.)

    I feel for you. You got in without a lot of knowledge and it is frustrating you with the results.

    Yes this is a simple device you are trying to run as far as the electrical circuitry for a heater is concerned. However it is a monster when it comes to power consumption. Remember 1500w is the same amount of power that is needed to run 25 60w incandescent light bulbs. This means you have to shift your thinking to dealing with a device using a large amount of power. This is also why it is first recommended you invest in energy conservation measures (LED lighting, Insulation, sealing cracks, etc.) before investing in solar power in general applications.

    Lets start with 6 300w panels will give you 1800w rated value. That is under ideal lab conditions. In real life you can probably expect 1500w on a good sunny day. This means if you have your panels angled properly you should get 1 hour of 1500w use for 1 hour of good sun. This means I can't see getting 18 hours use at 1500w from these panels no matter what you do.

    Now lets look at the batteries. Rather than trying to lay too much of this out in volts and amps I will mostly try to keep things in watts to keep the math simpler and the explanation shorter. First your 4 batteries will give you 400 AH at 12 volts or 200 AH at 24 volts, it is 4800w either way. Batteries are rated at C rate which is how long you discharge for in hours to get the AH stated. I did not see a C rating listed on your batteries (to be honest it was a quick look and may have missed it), but given the example uses and that it is an AGM battery I would probably go with a C20 rating which means 240w per hour for 20 hours. If you did go with a heavy duty deep cycle use it would be C10 or 480w at 10 hours continuous draw on the batteries. Trying to draw 1500w would be about a C3 rate which means you are probably trying to draw power out faster than the battery can supply it. This will damage the battery if done on a continuing basis.

    One last thing that concerns me and you did not mention is your DC wiring. I hope all your DC wiring is 6 AWG like was recommended with the charge controller. If not, at the amperage's that you are dealing with the cables can over heat and possibly start a fire and that scares me. None of this is worth what can happen with a fire.

    I don't think I gave you the answers you were looking for, but I hope this helps with your understanding of what you are dealing with.
    thank you friend

    QUES: where do you get the 4800watt figure from that threw me

    QUES: batteries are wired in parallel doesn't that double the amperage capacity? That's why I went parallel... im thinkin you got that backwards everything is geared for most amps

    QUES: batteries are either wired serial, or wired parallel or wired parallellANDSerial... can I do parallelANDparallell for 400ah?
    https://www.gwstore.co.za/correct-ba...energy-system/
    i guess im wondering how to get max amps out of the four batteries

    LASTQUES: so how many batteries would I need and do you have a link to the kind you would use?

    everything beyond c40 charge controller is thick 2-4 awg with breaker fuses on pos leads in case of surge thanks

    - cheers
    -- signature

    24vDC offgrid system

    Array 1 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC
    Array 2 - LG 300watt panel 39v 9amp times 3 (one array is 3 panels) feeds Xantrex C40 charging at 26vDC

    So Panel setup is 2 arrays composed of 3 300watt panels each each feeding its own separate C40 charge controller

    Battery Bank currently 4 deep cycle 12vDC batteries wired in paralell connected serial feeds AC Inverter Xantrex 1800watt PROSine

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •