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Ebola Outbreak

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  • Ebola Outbreak

    I recently finished a little consulting work and with some time on my hands I want to start like 4 or 5 threads but thought I'd start with this. I am considering firing up my old health blog, may at some point, but it is sort of catch 22 in that I want to discuss this but it is certainly going to be an emotional topic, my views are not necessarily conventional and if my old blog were on some outside chance to become wildly successful and the views widely picked up on, well I like consulting and hope to do more. So while seeing how things go I hope I can discuss it on this forum which is devoted primarily to so many eclectic energy related topics.

    To start off then, this outbreak is the real deal, while I have about zero clinical experience I do say that as an MD with an MPH in epidemiology. I will begin with reasons to be very validly concerned but also talk about why I really doubt this will become some sort of replay of the black plague of centuries ago. So on the quite concerning front 1) the number of cases for about 2 1/2 - three months, since mid May, has been doubling in just over a month, faster than that recently. Ten doublings is a 1024 fold increase, there are currently about over 2,000 cases, so if the current trend were to continue unabated in a year there would be over 2 million cases, in three years everyone who would get it would have. What caught my attention and what is frightening is that the disease was doubling in a month with every patient placed in quarantine. I posted elsewhere weeks ago that if this disease breaks quarantine we would see a much quicker doubling time. That has happened and is starting to show up in recent disease outbreak posting numbers. In addition, this past week we have admissions that the true number of cases (as quarantine is broken) are no longer being captured and are much higher than official numbers. A Doctors without Borders (the primary boots on the ground group) doctor said in congressional testimony that the true number is probably 2-4x higher and there are "hundreds" of dead bodies in the streets of cities. Other health officials are also now saying the outbreak is much larger than the numbers indicate. So this leads to

    2) How infectious is the disease? As an aside I've heard some people saying, why influenza kills 20,000 a year in this country and no one worries about that. Well, well, well then for comparisons sake the 1917 influenza outbreak killed 50-100 million (with a smaller world population) in two years, likely played a large role in ending WW I and had a case fatality rate of 5%. Ebola has a case fatality rate of 60% in the cohort of patients that received supportive care that are captured in the statistics. So how infectious is it, that really is the question. I don't like to say this especially with just a couple months data but it looks pretty darn infectious to me, the trend is quite disturbing, you also have so many of these doctors in moon suits taking every precaution to avoid infection still getting infected. We then can turn to Patrick Sawyer, the Ebola victim who flew into Lagos, Nigeria, barfed all over the plane and expired in a Nigerian hospital two days later (they closed down the whole hospital the next day). So another way of looking at infectivity is looking at how many new cases an infected person generates, with SARS and influenza it is in the 3-4 new cases per infectious person. Mr Sawyer infected 12 people in Nigeria in two days. Now we can say hey that was an extraordinary situation, he was in an airport and the hospital never suspected Ebola. So let's take a WAG that un-quarantined an Ebola patient infects 4 not 12 others. While incubation can last up to 21 days an average might be two weeks. So you see the problem? If one infection leads to 4 more in two weeks that is a doubling time of one week not over one month, if the current trend continues uninterrupted we may not have two years.

    3) How is it transmitted? There seems to be this fixation on "oh not airborne, party on". Plague wasn't airborne, malaria isn't airborne. Ebola seems to transfer primarily from sweat and from fomite transmission (i.e. some one wipes their sweaty brow on a rag you grab the rag you get infected). As to the latter, there is a disturbing article (i'll dig it out if need be) from a previous 2012 Ebola outbreak where a thief stole a cell phone from an Ebola patient and subsequently got Ebola from the cell phone. Fomite transmission would also explain the many healthcare workers, about a hundred, getting the disease. It strikes me as even more socially disruptive than airborne transmission. A classic example of fomite transmission is the norovirus, diarrheal outbreaks on cruiseships. Once it gets hold you generally hear of them limping back to port to offer refunds.

    4) Was this a weaponized attack? I doubt it, I am pretty sure Ebola has been looked at for weapon potential and may have been weaponized but a) the outbreak almost was extinguished (after two months) in Mid may with less than a new case per day. b) There was no media coverage complete with frothing demagoguery and glaring (gloating?) errors. c) It is a pretty indiscriminate thing to use as a weapon. Ebola has had many previous outbreaks they just never made it to population centers, I'll give a 1 or less percent chance of it being a weaponized attack. If you wanted to go entirely weird science, if there are EM weapons that could degrade immune response in a population that might explain the apparent increase in infectivity. Then you are left with qui bono? Who knows but I would give the very silly idea less than 1% of the previous less than 1%, to my knowledge there were no EM weapons in medieval Europe but plague did just fine wiping out a third of Europe.

    5) Why this isn't the Zombie apocalypse. In a nutshell I'm pretty certain Ebola can be cured or at least greatly mitigated through both conventional and alternative approaches. When I first started paying attention about a month ago I thought very cynically I bet they will try and wait for a vaccine. That appears to be exactly what they are doing but they may be underestimating the rapidity of spread. The current line of contact tracing and patient quarantine has failed. The disease could be localized in Western Africa if you really go martial law, i.e point guns at people's heads and say go back. A charity organization doctor would need to dig out the url said she has been to the check points and the people just walk around them. There is a chance that the lack of infrastructure (i.e. electricity, running water) in the area is a significant reason behind the spread but I wouldn't count on it behaving differently in the U.S. if it took hold. Then again CDC's Freidman said about it coming to the U.S. "it's not in the cards" so who I am to dispute a tarot card reader. Alright, need to wrap this up, for perspective, again I'll need to did out the URL if asked, but when a USAMRID worker had an Ebola needle stick they called a group and asked for a treatment to be made over the week-end, five days later they gave the drug though the patient was negative for disease. The point being if they cut the redtape and BS, they could mass produce a number of promising drugs probably in a month or two at least that is my guess. The Zmapp drug likely works, it is a monoclonal variant of a 100 year old approach, namely take the toxin or disease, give it to an animal, let the animal mount an immune response then spin down the antibodies the animal mounted against the disease as a treatment. Works for tetanus, pertussis, diptheria ever hear of rabies anti-serum (and rabies is about 100% fatal, so it can be safely made). As I said the Zmapp is a modern variant to this tried and true approach, there are other conventional approaches, but they are not ramping things up with any alacrity or sense of danger. Lastly a couple others, massive IV vitamin C is a glorious anti-viral, Fred Klenner, MD cured 60 polio virus cases in a row with it in the midst of a U.S. polio epidemic, never adopted, which is why I am not optimistic about non-patentable approaches. Just reviewed the medical literature on colloidal silver as an anti-viral, there is a lot to be optimistic about there, it might help a lot. Even more optimistically I saw just today that Nigeria is going to use "nano-silver" (not sure why they call it nano, they do that in the medical literature [for no reason] as well, I think if they called it micron silver people would realize they can make it from two silver dollars and a nine volt battery). If it works and is adopted the outbreak should be over in a couple weeks. If things continue on their current trend, untreated, uninterrupted and this isn't a consequence of the area's great poverty it will be an interesting 2015.
    Last edited by ZPDM; 08-15-2014, 06:00 PM.

  • #2
    this blog here http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/ normally does a good job of tracking volcanic activity and that is why I follow, but they have a few really good articles on Ebola. this is the real thing and will kill a lot of people before it is done. think about how flu mutates every year....

    Tom C


    experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting website, thank you. These are all wild guesses but I think for the next couple/few weeks mainstream media will continue to try to downplay this, as they have with stories like "Why Ebola doesn't threaten you" or human interest stories like Ebola survivor says she likes hot chocolate and Gospel rap music. If things don't change in terms of trends and I still have to feel like they will just because unlikely things are unlikely or just magical thinking to want to make it go away, then in a month or two we see who knows what and who if anyone has any authority. If it was studied as a weapon, well an antidote would have been studied. I suspect at around 5,000 deaths you will suddenly see, "breakthrough vaccine: Obama says we can mass produce it" or some such. Alternatively if something like colloidal silver in water or IV vitamin C is effective the outbreak might die off with no clear reason given or acknowledgment that there was any intervention. Also, not to dwell on it, but many of the places it is spreading in don't have running water let alone electricity, it might not spread the same in Switzerland, though it could spread faster there, who knows. But yes, if no one knows what they are doing and or bureaucratic ineptitude rules the day over those with a clue, I think this outbreak has the potential to kill millions and faster than people expect.

      Comment


      • #4
        A couple interesting things, at least to me, as an update. Before I get to that I would just say another thread I would like to start at some point is on colloidal silver, will get to that later, but as I said, while I knew it was antibacterial, I was surprised the amount of evidence in the peer reviewed literature for silver and "nano" silver as an anti-viral as well. Seems to have great activity in in-vitro studies against HIV, but ahh who would want to ever report on something as boring as that? Also, scanning maybe ten studies I found one where in the materials and methods section they actually described how they made their "nano" silver, from memory it was a chemical reduction of silver nitrate powder, they mentioned how when finished it had a nice yellow color in solution. There is nothing "nano" about it and I don't see any difference, except perhaps more trace impurities, between it and electrolytically produced colloidal silver. Don't want to form too strong of opinions yet and need to read more, and I don't want this to be the start of a new thread so getting back on topic,

        There is this article http://www.riskscience.umich.edu/nan...ctims-nigeria/ from Aug 15th that I found quite interesting. It starts off as an expected hatchet job on silver but it also sort of schizophrenically provides some very useful information. First it notes that the interest in nano-silver was from an open letter by a Doctor Rima Laibow, MD to the Nigerian President saying nano silver would be useful in treating Ebola. More surprisingly it goes on to link to a synopsis by Dr. Laibow of USAMRID research showing nanosilver inactivates Ebola virus http://drrimatruthreports.com/wp-con...lver-Study.pdf
        I checked and there is nothing in the open literature on silver as treatment for Ebola. The article ends by noting that overnight the Nigerian government changed its position on using silver to treat Ebola and will now use Zmapp, once it actually arrives.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, Zmapp! Of course, another push of experimental drug without sufficient testing. Unknown company employing 9 staff became a major supplier of Zmapp overnight! Business as usual and fear porn propaganda Goebbels would be proud off. What's better way to control and manipulate than fear. Tried and tested over and over. In parallel, conditioning process allowing to implement further restrictions (civil liberties) etc. They've been working 40 years to weaponize Ebola which bears similarity to HIV, upon closer examination. Of course, they've both just popped out in a middle of African jungle almost at the same time out of nowhere....There is very good YT summarizing this outbreak on Corbett Report. Worth watching.
          Silver should work but particles have to be very small to affect viral infection. VitC and perhaps liposomal version (easy to make at home) can provide sufficient defense against it since Ebola virtually strips our body of VitC. We're not talking mild deficiency but massive one.
          Most important - don't panic as fear affects our thinking and health. Remember swine flu scare and geared up like commando law enforcement practicing DUI check points with mock up vaccine kits, massive supply of squalene based vaccines which was paid by us and wasted as people started to research and question the entire affair. Well, not entirely since some expired stock has been sold to Third World countries. Sickening to the stomach.

          Regards
          V
          Last edited by blackchisel97; 08-16-2014, 03:21 PM. Reason: typo

          Comment


          • #6
            And they don't even have any Zmapp yet!! It is "a bit" disturbing to me that it was perhaps presented as some sort of either/or scenario, but if silver worked in Ebola it might work in other things, why billions in revenue streams could be at risk. But the other thing is they aren't ramping up any conventional treatments either, at least that they are saying. There was a scientist at some biohazard lab specifically created by the government to quickly mass produce bioweapon antidotes and he was saying from memory, "they have our number, we are here 24 hours a day to assist". I would say the news coverage is a lot different than with the SARS dud, I am pretty sure this Ebola outbreak has already killed more people than the whole SARS outbreak. I agree 100-110% that liposomal C would be of great help in treating Ebola. I don't think it was a weaponized attack but practically speaking it doesn't make too much immediate difference. I don't see a lot of people on this forum panicking or acting irrationally, but if it gets to the point where there are say 10 Ebola cases in the U.S. I could see some possible social disruption (i.e. half the country going nuts). Oddly enough, maybe I would be wrong, but I could see in that sort of situation mentioning to people something like well there is some evidence that colloidal silver might be helpful or there is a case to be made that massive amounts of vitamin C would help, could even make people upset. Maybe not, but I am trying to make sense of today's headline, I have to hope it is some sort of propaganda because it reads like a very poorly written Stephen King novel. They are saying that people in West Point, a poor part of Monrovia with 60,000 people didn't like that an Ebola center had opened there. They marched on it, the majority of Ebola patients scattered to who knows where, and the mob, didn't burn the place down, they looted it. They report that they were stealing blood stained sheets and mattresses. If that isn't a mainstream media lie, and no conventional or alternative treatment is forthcoming, West Point may have just signed its death warrant. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...lt-flights-to/

            Will check out the YT video on your recommendation, but I find Corbett pretty snarky .

            Addendum: Haven't watched it yet but having glanced at it I see you weren't referring to the annoying comedian.
            Last edited by ZPDM; 08-17-2014, 06:47 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
              And they don't even have any Zmapp yet!! It is "a bit" disturbing to me that it was perhaps presented as some sort of either/or scenario, but if silver worked in Ebola it might work in other things, why billions in revenue streams could be at risk. But the other thing is they aren't ramping up any conventional treatments either, at least that they are saying. There was a scientist at some biohazard lab specifically created by the government to quickly mass produce bioweapon antidotes and he was saying from memory, "they have our number, we are here 24 hours a day to assist". I would say the news coverage is a lot different than with the SARS dud, I am pretty sure this Ebola outbreak has already killed more people than the whole SARS outbreak. I agree 100-110% that liposomal C would be of great help in treating Ebola. I don't think it was a weaponized attack but practically speaking it doesn't make too much immediate difference. I don't see a lot of people on this forum panicking or acting irrationally, but if it gets to the point where there are say 10 Ebola cases in the U.S. I could see some possible social disruption (i.e. half the country going nuts). Oddly enough, maybe I would be wrong, but I could see in that sort of situation mentioning to people something like well there is some evidence that colloidal silver might be helpful or there is a case to be made that massive amounts of vitamin C would help, could even make people upset. Maybe not, but I am trying to make sense of today's headline, I have to hope it is some sort of propaganda because it reads like a very poorly written Stephen King novel. They are saying that people in West Point, a poor part of Monrovia with 60,000 people didn't like that an Ebola center had opened there. They marched on it, the majority of Ebola patients scattered to who knows where, and the mob, didn't burn the place down, they looted it. They report that they were stealing blood stained sheets and mattresses. If that isn't a mainstream media lie, and no conventional or alternative treatment is forthcoming, West Point may have just signed its death warrant. http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...lt-flights-to/

              Will check out the YT video on your recommendation, but I find Corbett pretty snarky .

              Addendum: Haven't watched it yet but having glanced at it I see you weren't referring to the annoying comedian.
              That's the YT I was referring to - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szPA9wsakQo
              I also doubt that this outbreak was bio weapon attack but I also don't believe that it just happened without someone's "helping hand" or negligence. In other words, I don't rule out an intentional release. I don't believe that there is no simple antidote however, no made available for an average Joe. 40 years of research is a lot of time and plenty of funds were likely allocated to it since it was under the umbrella of military.
              Very likely, the evidence of any conventional and wisely available remedy will not be made public. What would be the point?
              What saddens me is suffering and dying people.
              They've done it before and continue as they can get away with it. It is propaganda (IMO) built on real events and I believe, there is a purpose to it as always been however, often not clear and obvious at first. Cui Bono, remains valid question.

              Regards
              V

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi V,

                You know about a month ago, sort of as a trial balloon, I posted a comment in a mainstream article mentioning people should look up Dr. Klenner and Dr. Levy and that massive IV vitamin C might be curative or helpful. I got a couple usual responses like, "Geez! vitamins" and "Don't you think if it could work they would have tried it already?" Of course the question of who "they" is never comes up when in defense of conventional wisdom, err bull****. One response though was along the lines of "Hey Paul sounds like your volunteering for the trial, good luck!" So it was like basically here is someone wishing me a lingering painful death for mentioning something that is supported in the medical literature that might help people. That was why, as I mentioned, I wonder now if that is the response I got then who knows what sort of response would occur if that sort of hole actually felt threatened. I likely won't but am at least thinking of writing Doctor's Without Border's, almost certainly an exercise in futility. That Dr. Rima, whom I don't follow or know, had the attention of the Nigerian Prime Minister and they reversed their position on colloidal silver overnight. I suspect electromagnetic approaches such as you are interested in and research, as well as the machine JB has given us would be beneficial. From the viewpoint of making a conventional argument though, vitamin C as an antiviral is all over the medical literature and there is good support for silver as well, might not work but it sure is a well-supported conventional argument. It is a very sad and tragic situation. Even more so than "free energy" it is odd to think of different approaches which are well supported which are ignored or suppressed though in this case the result isn't more expensive power or poverty, it is people dying a painful death.

                The good news is that Zmapp led to "remarkable improvement" in three Liberian patients who received it, the bad news is they are out and won't have more for months. Along with the looting of an Ebola clinic in Liberia, the latest update from WHO showed 3 new cases in Nigeria. The index case, Patrick Sawyer flew into Liberia on July 20th, so those three infections aren't from Sawyer. I had thought that Nigeria had snuffed it out in Lagos, they threw everything they could at it, closed the whole hospital, massive contact tracing. They may still contain it, I would have to think so given all the attention and the resources of a 20 million person city. If it takes hold in Lagos though it could be lights out for many people before they finally get around to their fing vaccine in 2015, if it even works.
                Last edited by ZPDM; 08-19-2014, 09:44 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just a quick update, I think. Not sure what I said earlier and too lazy to re-read. First off this outbreak could perhaps be ended. Conventionally if there was some alacrity paid towards conventional treatments such as ZMapp (which I believe I said here or elsewhere would work) As to making it practical a) you know the epitope targets that work, don't bother growing the darn thing in tobacco leaves make it how monoclonal antibodies have been made for the past 30 years. b) ZMapp is a high falutin anti-serum the same as is still produced for rabies (100% or so fatal). Make a f'n antiserum (polyclonal) from some goats already if need be. c) the RNA interference approach might also work 50% chance I give it, (this is making a strand [unless I'm mistaken] of RNA complementary to the RNA strand of the virus), so it binds and makes a double stranded RNA disposed of by the host. Alternative, natural approaches might also (oh can't say "cure" and "natural" in the same sentence so) alter the natural course of the disease. First, as I think I've mentioned is the choice of "blue bloods" everywhere, silver. I believe the prime minister of Nigeria was ready to use this until an expert/texpert said it was stupid or much worse. Given the lack of expense, the safety, and the published activity against other viruses it is bizarre. Likewise without further comment, lots of IV vitamin C. There are other helpful things, garlic? for heaven's sake the "traditional healer's admonition to eat two raw onions is likely helpful, there are other nutrients I would expect would be helpful. Basically, it seems neither commercial or alternative approaches to the outbreak are being pursued.

                  Where did I last leave off, I think an infectious disease clinic had been looted in the capitol of Liberia. A quarantine was imposed for ten days with little food or water being given the prisoners. It was lifted yesterday, about the average incubation time I would guess for Ebola. Overall the outbreak continues to double in a month or so, per official figures, now a bit less than a month while it is said the outbreak may be two to four times larger than the WHO/CDC figures. I don't know what the doubling time is then but it is quicker than a month. WHOs response is a half billion dollars (of other people's money) roadmap. The problem is people actually die pretty often treating Ebola and manager types at CDC/WHO aren't keen on that risk. The best and bravest are the MSF and similar volunteers they have said the outbreak is beyond them. Who exactly are you going to send? Who is going to put on a moonsuit and tell, uh, Ibrahim, that because his mother sneezed she needs to be taken away by moonsuit whitey to a place where everyone else just happens to crap themselves to death. You want to volunteer I don't. There is no cavalry, CDC head Frieden won't be suiting up, the best are already out there.

                  CDC now says there could be 20,000 infections before its all over. By official figures, we are over three thousand. If it is 4x worse then 20,000 will be hit in less than a month, otherwise a few months. The disease continues to spread in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone. While it looked like Nigeria had it under control they now say someone who escaped detection went to Port Harcourt, so looks like Nigeria hasn't contained things so far. A college student form Liberia I think went to Senegal and hung out in the capitol, Dakar for a few days before being diagnosed with Ebola, so that is now five countries. There is also now a separate outbreak in Congo of a different strain of Ebola. I still say this is not man influenced or made, but wow. Seeing as there will be next to no resources to contain the Congo outbreak we will at least see if all the previous interventions in rural areas actually did anything to stop outbreaks or not.

                  So far there has been no let up in the spread of the disease, unless there is some grand plan in place, it is to use a psychology term "magical thinking" to suppose this stops at 20,000 cases. It may be that the abject poverty of the places this disease has struck plays a large role in the spread of the disease. If not it would be expected to spread likewise in Europe/Asia/America. The concern about it spreading right now is like the boy who cried wolf, there have been what three thousand cases, half of them dead, half over it, so maybe 750 infectious (if 4x worse 3,000 infectious) people. If it increases ten or 100 fold and I don't know if it would first present itself at the level four trauma center, then we see if this is a matter of poverty or a hell of an infectious fatal disease.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Alright, I started this thread so I should say something new. I actually on other sites said I was worried maybe weeks earlier than anything I mentioned here, quite honestly about all I got is "told you so". I will say more, and we are at one case in the U.S. as I said if it gets to ten cases people may start doing the Macarena.

                    First off, as I think I mentioned there is an obvious scalable conventional treatment for this, an anti-serum. They are talking now about gathering antibodies from disease survivors and using the serum (WHO recommended I believe) as a treatment Take 1,000 goats or horses, expose them to virus, and do the same and you have 5,000 treatments. It would take weeks or less. 100 or 99.9% fatal rabies is treated the same way it could be done and it is scalable quickly unlike growing tobacco plants for a lesser (3 antibody) anti-serum approach (ZMapp). It is a hundred year old technology and still used today the safety issues are known as well as how to mitigate them.

                    There are non-conventional approaches. I won't say anything about electromagnetic approaches, there, done. I have been reviewing the medical literature on IV vitamin C and colloidal silver. As Dr. Stephen Levy said, I believe, about IV vitamin C "there has never been a virus it hasn't killed". This is true, unfortunately after Fred Klenner cured 60 polio cases in a row with it, the discussion degenerated into well does 250 mg of oral vitamin C cure the "common cold" and stayed there for decades. IV vitamin C is a potent broad spectrum anti-viral that is very poorly researched. Silver has very recently been researched a bit more and appears to be extremely active against some viruses and not so against others. I need to spend more time but in-vitro it shows great activity against HIV. While I don't know her or her previous work an MD Doctor Rima, states that there is a classified USMARID study showing colloidal silver is very active against Ebola. There is apparently an unclassified power-point synopsis that is very available on the internet along with the names of the researchers in the study. If this power-point synopsis is valid it is evil that it is not acted on.

                    Dr. Rima wrote the Prime minister of Nigeria when a Liberian flew there and infected Nigerians, gee sounds familiar. The news reports stated how Nigeria was looking forward to using this remedy, then overnight it all changed 180 degrees and that it would not be used because it was a quack remedy. Dr. Rima more recently three times attempted to ship colloidal silver to West Africa and it was returned to sender each time. I don't make too much (more?) of this in that a recent article noted Sierra Leone has tons of isolation suits gloves, etc. that have remained unopened on the docks.

                    When this started I thought to myself all they will do is drag it out until a vaccine is available, that still appears to be the plan.

                    So my take, I will be "conspiratorial" I think the Ebola outbreak was natural. For that matter I think AIDS was a natural consequence of antibiotics decreasing sexually transmitted diseases, an increase in promiscuity and an opportunistic pathogen filling in. The Ebola outbreak nearly died out in mid June, also its spread to the U.S. brings up politically awkward questions such as "do we actually have a border?" and though its not there yet, but much much worse, do Africans carry fatal diseases? The news coverage from the beginning also was not overtly demagogic. I think this is a crisis that should not go to waste, is the current approach. The goal here would be to make Africa subservient to universal vaccination, using such to control fertility. One wild card here is a) is the disease more infectious then thought b) could it mutate to become more infectious i.e. airborne. One slightly worrying thing to my mind is that the lead "GSK" vaccine uses a monkey adenovirus as its vector. This virus is not infectious to man but adenovirus in man is essentially the common cold. Viruses, at least influenza, become airborne by trading parts with other viruses that are good at infecting that way. While the monkey virus isn't directly infectious to man are there any parts the monkey adenovirus might loan to Ebola to make it much closer to airborne? When I was young I used to think they had thought all this through.

                    If this is not simple stupidity then likely a 100,000 - million people will die painful deaths who never needed to until a holy grail vaccination is rolled out over all of Africa. If not and this is bureaucratic stupidity tens of millions or more could die. That's my update, don't know if I was conspiratorial enough, don't get me started on EVD 68 or whatever the number, that's a really weird one, Bearden is a genius but may be wrong both technically and/or in terms of who controls what, but, if not, maybe we finally pissed Putin off.
                    Last edited by ZPDM; 10-08-2014, 08:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ebola c silver cordyceps

                      Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
                      Alright, I started this thread so I should say something new. I actually on other sites said I was worried maybe weeks earlier than anything I mentioned here, quite honestly about all I got is "told you so". I will say more, and we are at one case in the U.S. as I said if it gets to ten cases people may start doing the Macarena.

                      First off, as I think I mentioned there is an obvious scalable conventional treatment for this, an anti-serum. They are talking now about gathering antibodies from disease survivors and using the serum (WHO recommended I believe) as a treatment Take 1,000 goats or horses, expose them to virus, and do the same and you have 5,000 treatments. It would take weeks or less. 100 or 99.9% fatal rabies is treated the same way it could be done and it is scalable quickly unlike growing tobacco plants for a lesser (3 antibody) anti-serum approach (ZMapp). It is a hundred year old technology and still used today the safety issues are known as well as how to mitigate them.

                      There are non-conventional approaches. I won't say anything about electromagnetic approaches, there, done. I have been reviewing the medical literature on IV vitamin C and colloidal silver. As Dr. Stephen Levy said, I believe, about IV vitamin C "there has never been a virus it hasn't killed". This is true, unfortunately after Fred Klenner cured 60 polio cases in a row with it, the discussion degenerated into well does 250 mg of oral vitamin C cure the "common cold" and stayed there for decades. IV vitamin C is a potent broad spectrum anti-viral that is very poorly researched. Silver has very recently been researched a bit more and appears to be extremely active against some viruses and not so against others. I need to spend more time but in-vitro it shows great activity against HIV. While I don't know her or her previous work an MD Doctor Rima, states that there is a classified USMARID study showing colloidal silver is very active against Ebola. There is apparently an unclassified power-point synopsis that is very available on the internet along with the names of the researchers in the study. If this power-point synopsis is valid it is evil that it is not acted on.

                      Dr. Rima wrote the Prime minister of Nigeria when a Liberian flew there and infected Nigerians, gee sounds familiar. The news reports stated how Nigeria was looking forward to using this remedy, then overnight it all changed 180 degrees and that it would not be used because it was a quack remedy. Dr. Rima more recently three times attempted to ship colloidal silver to West Africa and it was returned to sender each time. I don't make too much (more?) of this in that a recent article noted Sierra Leone has tons of isolation suits gloves, etc. that have remained unopened on the docks.

                      When this started I thought to myself all they will do is drag it out until a vaccine is available, that still appears to be the plan.

                      So my take, I will be "conspiratorial" I think the Ebola outbreak was natural. For that matter I think AIDS was a natural consequence of antibiotics decreasing sexually transmitted diseases, an increase in promiscuity and an opportunistic pathogen filling in. The Ebola outbreak nearly died out in mid June, also its spread to the U.S. brings up politically awkward questions such as "do we actually have a border?" and though its not there yet, but much much worse, do Africans carry fatal diseases? The news coverage from the beginning also was not overtly demagogic. I think this is a crisis that should not go to waste, is the current approach. The goal here would be to make Africa subservient to universal vaccination, using such to control fertility. One wild card here is a) is the disease more infectious then thought b) could it mutate to become more infectious i.e. airborne. One slightly worrying thing to my mind is that the lead "GSK" vaccine uses a monkey adenovirus as its vector. This virus is not infectious to man but adenovirus in man is essentially the common cold. Viruses, at least influenza, become airborne by trading parts with other viruses that are good at infecting that way. While the monkey virus isn't directly infectious to man are there any parts the monkey adenovirus might loan to Ebola to make it much closer to airborne? When I was young I used to think they had thought all this through. Then again it is equally to more likely no one has a clue and everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut-off.

                      If this is not simple stupidity then likely a 100,000 - million people will die painful deaths who never needed to until a holy grail vaccination is rolled out over all of Africa. If not and this is bureaucratic stupidity tens of millions or more could die. That's my update, don't know if I was conspiratorial enough, don't get me started on EVD 68 or whatever the number, that's a really weird one, Bearden is a genius but may be wrong both technically and/or in terms of who controls what, but, if not, maybe we finally pissed Putin off.
                      The antibodies from Ebola in one person will only work for that very specific Ebola virus. By the time it hits someone else, it has already changed its genetics and those antibodies will no longer be effective. Just like flu shots, the flu shots for this year will primarily be made from the flu going around last year and the chances it is the same strain this year and next to nil.

                      This is what I posted in Facebook:

                      U.S. MILITARY SHOWS HOW TO INACTIVATE EBOLA VIRUS
                      U.S. Military research shows nano particle silver inhibits Ebola. Download this unclassified document showing the research and mechanism of how it happens. http://www.docdroid.net/ip2q/defense...ruses.pdf.html

                      Go download that free PDF - it is of a powerpoint where the military shows how nanoparticle silver inactivates a virus - inhibiting enzymes, etc... nanoparticle is important and 95%+ of the colloidal silver on the market is garbage. The smallest particle size commercially available is from Natural Immunogenics (Soveriegn Silver) - so small it is classified as a silver hydrosol - basically dissolved silver, which is smaller than "colloidal". It is so small it rivals Movidyn, which was being made in the Czech republic "To the astonishment of the Soviet military, Movidyn also disinfected every germ warfare bacteria in the Soviet arsenal."


                      Sovereign Silver™

                      Average particle size 0.0008 microns (0.8 nm). Complete dispersion.*
                      The Other Widely-Distributed Colloidal Silver Products

                      The 'Source Naturals/Wellness' product demonstrates a preponderance of large particles.*
                      The 'Future Biotics' product exhibits neutral silver particles that are smaller but easily agglomerate.*
                      The 'Innovative Naturals' product is a hybrid colloid/proteinate solution; even at the manufacturer’s recommended dose its 500-ppm product exceeds the EPA daily reference dose for silver.*
                      Here is a comparison to many silver products on the market: http://www.natural-immunogenics.com/...e_analysis.php

                      Also, when particle size is small enough, you only need 10ppm - all the 50ppm, 100ppm, etc... silvers are junk. Theirs is 0.0008 microns, which is 0.8 nm - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B001VUHZNS
                      Aaron Murakami





                      You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Vitamin C is great for anti-viral activities, but if you use the nanoparticle silver, the C has another function. Ebola is a hemorrhagic virus, which causes the breakdown of connective tissues. So the C will be used to help retain stronger connective tissue (hyaluronic acid and C to create strong "ground substance").

                        The degeneration of the Vitamin C discussion is 100% identical to what happened with Linus Pauling curing cancer and I believe Ewan Cameron was involved possibly. Pauling made sure people were not previously messed up by chemo, it was only IV vitamin C, etc... and when the Mayo clinic "replicated" his results, they used patients who already had chemo, they used oral vitamin C, etc... same sad story of fake fraud science by the mainstream medical establishment.

                        The other fraud against C is claiming too much C is a waste because it will dump in the urine anyway and not get used. True, but what they left out is that if you keep taking it, you start to make the enzymes that actually put it to use so over time, there is less and less dumping in the urine because the body actually does start to use the high doses - and is why when reducing the dose it has to be tapered off or will exhibit symptoms of scurvy - have to also train the body to use less.

                        Ascorbic acid is fine by IV because it bypasses the digestion system... it is ok to take it orally, but must be mineral ascorbates because that is the only real form that the small intestinal lining is designed to grab on to and pull into the blood through the active transport mechanism.

                        Alacer who makes Emergen-C used to make the best powder C blend of ascorbates but I can't find it. Most people use calcium ascorbate but its important to have the full spectrum of magnesium ascorbate, potassium ascorbate, etc...

                        C-Salts is a great C and a decent price and it appears to be based on Pauling's formula - still have to verify that. http://www.nutri.com/index.cfm/category/71/c-salts.cfm available in Amazon too.

                        I recently ordered this one from Life Extensions on Amazon - same exact formula as C-Salts but is less $ per serving - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000JKVKGO

                        Here is an expose on Aids - https://sites.google.com/site/callin...Disclosure.pdf
                        This is a must read for Essiac Tea - might as well get it - it's free: https://sites.google.com/site/callin...f_An_Angel.pdf

                        I have hard bound copies that cost me a fortune a long time ago - the Full Disclosure book was confiscated by the box load shortly after published and not a lot of copies made it out.

                        The important point it makes - and it actually was not written by Dr. Gary Glum by the way - whether anyone believes the story or not - is that deoxyribonucleosides can kill viruses and it is important that it is deoxygenated. When I worked with two mentors of mine about 15 years ago, they were both friends with Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron that was my Vitamin C influence - anyway, we worked with ribose sugars extensively. If you look at that ribose molecule, not having the oxygen molecule at the bottom right is all important specific for fighting viruses.

                        Cordyceps mushroom has these compounds just like a handful of other substances. However, only the cordyceps grown in the higher altitudes of the Himalayas produces the deoxygenated ribose based molecules that are crucial... low temperature and low oxgyen - cordyceps conserves oxygen by producing the deoxyribonucleoside substances. Important to stay away from the junk grown in China.

                        The #1 company in the world for Cordyceps is Aloha Medicinals. Dr. John Holliday is the world's leading authority on this specific mushroom and he is behind that company. They grow it in a controlled environment under low temperatures and low oxygen to mimic the environment of the high Himalayas. One hybrid they made they used to call Cordyceps alohaensis and all these compounds were literally at the top or off the charts as shown by spectrum analysis. And, it's very inexpensive. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B0034JTDYS



                        Support immune system - that is the primary thing we can do to fight this besides taking ASEA, which is loaded in stabilized o3, h2o2, etc... but I can't go into the claims here.

                        Load up on the right kind of C, cordyceps and silver - there are obviously other things to help with immunity, but I'm focusing on the biggest bang for the buck with things proven to be strong virus killers. And I would use spray bottles of the silver to spray on the hands, face and in the nose very frequently and even with a nebulizer if necessary. There are cheap ones avail that work fine - I have one almost identical to this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-N...99839045&rt=nc $25 for a small compact nebulizer is a steal.
                        Aaron Murakami





                        You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey Aaron,

                          Thanks for replying, I am going to disagree with you on some stuff, agree on other stuff and wonder if we are chasing an (FDA?) red herring on other stuff.

                          I disagree that an anti-serum wouldn't work. There have been case reports (though I don't think they are written up in medical literature) of matched blood transfusions being helpful in previous outbreaks, that really is the gold standard, they gave it to someone they got better, albeit one wants a placebo controlled trial. It would be surprising for a pathogen to mutate entirely or maybe even greatly out of the effect of an anti-serum quickly. ZMapp which consists of three antibodies directed against epitopes from Ebola has very very preliminary evidence of being efficacious. Unlike Zmapp in an immune response you will have, I don't know, ten million antibodies, 100,000 will fit to some degree and be upregulated, 5,000 will be good fits and really produced. Even if things change a bit some of those 5,000 will still fit. This is why you can stock rattlesnake antivenom even though the years and snakes change and stock rabies virus antiserum. Yes, if Ebola genetically drifts as quickly as influenza it could be a problem year to year. It likely isn't a problem, if it is it can be worked around (as they do with flu vaccine) and in any event it is the obvious conventional place to start, weeks to months ago, cheaply and easily, if you can make a vaccine, you can make an anti-serum, they are photo negatives of one another

                          Yea, that powerpoint presentation is the same one I have seen. What's up with that? The researchers names are on the first page, why isn't anyone asking them, "Hey did this work?!" As I said if that ppt is valid what excuse is there? The FDA I believe trumpeted some studies about only really small silver particles were good at killing viruses in in-vitro studies. Commonsensically, I think this is a red herring. If you take a B12, or Mg++ or a Ca+ tablet are you concerned about particle size. No, because this is determined by gut absorption. If the silver is small and dispersed enough to be absorbed into the bloodstream it should show effect. Many marketed products may be for lack of a better term crap, but nothing two 99.9% silver ounces and a couple nine volt batteries couldn't solve. Heck, you could likely get some good anti-viral/anti-bacterial protection by sucking on a silver spoon, and if you did it for lifetime you might become a true aristocratic blueblood. From looking at how silver knocks out in vitro a number of viruses, with some exceptions, I put it at 50-99% that silver is beneficial in Ebola. Be great to know if that ppt is valid, and don't expect to see any studies or trials soon.

                          On that note, one thing with vitamin C is that it is absorbed only through channels in the gut. Hence if you took twenty grams of oral vitamin C, the dose would be less than 2 grams into the blood stream. This is the whole folly of looking at 250 mg oral "C" for the common cold when Klenner gave say 20 grams for an adult IV, that would be like trying to take 200-400 grams orally, it won't happen.

                          Liposomal encapsulated C (Livon Labs[founder thinks AIDS was a bioweapon]) bypasses the active transport channels for "C" in the gut by being absorbed as a liposome. A study showed three times higher blood levels from the liposomal C as compared to regular oral C. In addition, where liposomal may really shine is that there are active transport channels from the bloodstream into the cell. The liposome is like the cell wall and just merges with it, bypassing the channels and dumping its contents straight into the cell. Dr. Levy MD JD, whom I mentioned earlier said he feels that 1 gram of liposomal C is clinically equivalent to 10 grams not of oral but of IV vitamin C. I think he got carried away, though he may be right, he has a heck of a lot more experience than me. Maybe 1 gram liposomal is equivalent to 1 gram IV. I have taken 6 grams of liposomal C in one day with only a propensity for long replies to forum messages to show for it. Either way you are getting out towards the levels Klenner used when he cured Polio and so many other viruses.

                          There is a decent chance I will restart my old health blog in the coming weeks and apropos of nothing look at the medical literature for vitamin C as an antiviral, silver as an anti-viral and the anti-viral effects of vitamin D and zinc, then go from there if it isn't the zombie apocalypse.
                          Last edited by ZPDM; 10-08-2014, 08:02 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ZPDM View Post
                            Hey Aaron,

                            Thanks for replying, I am going to disagree with you on some stuff, agree on other stuff and wonder if we are chasing an (FDA?) red herring on other stuff.

                            I disagree that an anti-serum wouldn't work. There have been case reports (though I don't think they are written up in medical literature) of matched blood transfusions being helpful in previous outbreaks, that really is the gold standard, they gave it to someone they got better, albeit one wants a placebo controlled trial. It would be surprising for a pathogen to mutate entirely or maybe even greatly out of the effect of an anti-serum quickly. ZMapp which consists of three antibodies directed against epitopes from Ebola has very very preliminary evidence of being efficacious. Unlike Zmapp in an immune response you will have, I don't know, ten million antibodies, 100,000 will fit to some degree and be upregulated, 5,000 will be good fits and really produced. Even if things change a bit some of those 5,000 will still fit. This is why you can stock rattlesnake antivenom even though the years and snakes change and stock rabies virus antiserum. Yes, if Ebola genetically drifts as quickly as influenza it could be a problem year to year. It likely isn't a problem, if it is it can be worked around (as they do with flu vaccine) and in any event it is the obvious conventional place to start, weeks to months ago, cheaply and easily, if you can make a vaccine, you can make an anti-serum, they are photo negatives of one another

                            Yea, that powerpoint presentation is the same one I have seen. What's up with that? The researchers names are on the first page, why isn't anyone asking them, "Hey did this work?!" As I said if that ppt is valid what excuse is there? The FDA I believe trumpeted some studies about only really small silver particles were good at killing viruses in in-vitro studies. Commonsensically, I think this is a red herring. If you take a B12, or Mg++ or a Ca+ tablet are you concerned about particle size. No, because this is determined by gut absorption. If the silver is small and dispersed enough to be absorbed into the bloodstream it should show effect. Many marketed products may be for lack of a better term crap, but nothing two 99.9% silver ounces and a couple nine volt batteries couldn't solve. Heck, you could likely get some good anti-viral/anti-bacterial protection by sucking on a silver spoon, and if you did it for lifetime you might become a true aristocratic blueblood. From looking at how silver knocks out in vitro a number of viruses, with some exceptions, I put it at 50-99% that silver is beneficial in Ebola. Be great to know if that ppt is valid, and don't expect to see any studies or trials soon.

                            On that note, one thing with vitamin C is that it is absorbed only through channels in the gut. Hence if you took twenty grams of oral vitamin C, the dose would be less than 2 grams into the blood stream. This is the whole folly of looking at 250 mg oral "C" for the common cold when Klenner gave say 20 grams for an adult IV, that would be like trying to take 200-400 grams orally, it won't happen.

                            Liposomal encapsulated C (Livon Labs[founder thinks AIDS was a bioweapon]) bypasses the active transport channels for "C" in the gut by being absorbed as a liposome. A study showed three times higher blood levels from the liposomal C as compared to regular oral C. In addition, where liposomal may really shine is that there are active transport channels from the bloodstream into the cell. The liposome is like the cell wall and just merges with it, bypassing the channels and dumping its contents straight into the cell. Dr. Levy MD JD, whom I mentioned earlier said he feels that 1 gram of liposomal C is clinically equivalent to 10 grams not of oral but of IV vitamin C. I think he got carried away, though he may be right, he has a heck of a lot more experience than me. Maybe 1 gram liposomal is equivalent to 1 gram IV. I have taken 6 grams of liposomal C in one day with only a propensity for long replies to forum messages to show for it. Either way you are getting out towards the levels Klenner used when he cured Polio and so many other viruses.

                            There is a decent chance I will restart my old health blog in the coming weeks and apropos of nothing look at the medical literature for vitamin C as an antiviral, silver as an anti-viral and the anti-viral effects of vitamin D and zinc, then go from there if it isn't the zombie apocalypse.
                            I have to admit I am biased against the vaccine/serum route for viruses so will just have to see what happens.

                            With particle size, those vitamin and molecules are enormous compared to even relatively large particle size silver and they work by different action. It certainly doesn't seem like the FDA is too enthusiastic about trumpeting anything about small particle size but there are definitely other published studies showing similar benefits of small particle size silver as an anti-viral treatment. I'm sure using any silver product is better than none but in the larger particle size products, the particles are so big they're really not even colloidal and are actually silver salts that represent improperly produced "colloidal" silver. That is the stuff the average person makes at home and can even turn the skin gray - it's rare, but is impossible to happen with true colloids or a hydrosol, which is literally just a few atoms large. There is electrical action at work so can be considered "energy medicine" at that small level and that doesn't apply to the larger particle size. If you look at the Natural Immunogenics literature, it is quite astounding.

                            Just as long as we don't turn into Smurf's from argyria I'm all for it:

                            blue_man.jpg

                            Since Movidyn in the 50's until now, outside of what the FDA is interested in pushing or not, the common denominator appears to be that all the silver was of the smallest particle size possible.

                            Colloidal silver can be made with 3 nine volt batteries and 2 silver ounce coins. However, it causes too much current and the particles are actually very big. The trick to the highest quality silver is very low current - low current = small particle size. One person sells a generator that claims the same particle size as natural immunogenics and shows a supposed electron microscope scan of what it produces. http://www.thesilveredge.com/ I'd curious as to what his circuit is.

                            Whether the small particle size is valid - I believe it is - is one thing, but if we do want small particle size, low current is the way to go. Instead of 3 nine volt batteries, I'd use the bare minimum necessary to get conductivity. This seems to be the case no matter what the element is. For carbon, I was electrolyzing it at less than a volt and milliamps and my nano carbon solution is still almost completely in suspension 5 years later while the commerical "colloidal carbon" as a battery additive has a shelf life of 1.5 years before most of it settles and that stuff was considered small.

                            Peter Lindemann has a lot of experience with making colloidal silver way back and I believe they did a lot of tests going back to the Borderlands days and they found the same thing that very low current was needed to make small particle size. It looks like the spikes from a coil of a small SG like the roller skate wheel model might be great for a low current source to make small particle size. Maybe Natural Immunogenics would be willing to analyze it with their microscope.

                            Silver has been floating around the lowest point it has been in 4 years so a good time to buy no matter what it's used for.

                            With your example of 20 grams or oral C, are you talking about plain ascorbic acid or a mineral ascorbate? People get stomach aches, diarrhea, etc... from ascorbic acid but almost never from the asorbates because the ascorbates are actually absorbable.

                            The Liposomal C - is that the same as what is being touted as "enteric coated" vitamin C? This sounds really good. I haven't been in touch with most of the latest supplement advanced since I closed my vitamin shop quite a while back.
                            Aaron Murakami





                            You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This liposomal C looks incredible - there is something to be said however for normal ascorbates as that his how all humans have survived for all this time along with fruit bats, guinea pigs, etc... is by normal ascorbates in fruits, vegetables, and so on without being encapulated in fats.

                              http://www.livonlabs.com/cgi-bin/sta...vitamin-c.html

                              It is a sodium ascorbate and there is the never ending debate about sodium ascorbate whether it contributes to high blood pressure or not. From what I remember sodium ascorbates were used heavily by vets but no so much for people.

                              In any case, the fat delivery mechanism makes perfect sense - I'm all about bioavailability so will be getting some for myself.

                              On Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...SIN=B000CD9XGC same price as 30 packs at the Liveon Labs but if you have Amazon prime, free 2 day shipping.

                              This product is fairly expensive at about $1 per 1000mg serving packet but its cheap insurance for sure - especially if it comes close to the equivelant of IV delivery.

                              Do you know if high amounts of freed up hyaluronic acid are detectible in people who are hemorrhaging from Ebola type virus?
                              Aaron Murakami





                              You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

                              Comment

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