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Positive effects of negative ions

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  • Positive effects of negative ions

    I would like to start this thread to share some of my findings and hope to inspire others to experiment. There is a vast amount of info in our great free library - internet therefore I'll keep the intro to the minimum and let you do more research into that matter.
    The ions are basically atomic particles carrying charge, either positive or negative. This applies to the air surrounding us and while being most vital element ( we cannot survive without beyond a few minutes) it is also one of the most polluted one. Clean air (78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen plus trace amount of noble gasses) consists positive and negative ions in about 5:4 ratio. It has been found that any change in that ratio will affect all forms of biological systems - including humans, of course.
    There is am excellent book written in '70 by Fred Soyka - The Ion Effect. I look at eBay last night and found couple copies reasonably priced.
    If you research this topic you'll find that over 85%-90% of scientific reports state benefits of negative ions, remaining 14% - 9% reports claim no effect and less than 1% detail some detrimental effects. For me it was convincing enough to search for more information.
    Despite overwhelming reports supporting negatively charged air and ozonated water benefits to our health, most manufacturers of such devices refrain from making such bold claims. Wonder why
    Target of my project is to make replicable device capable of cleaning air by using negative ions and small amounts of ozone. Also, capable of making ozonated water, oil etc.
    There is always more than one way to skin the cat and this case is no different. What we need is a source of reliable and tunable high voltage supply, launcher - in the form of electrodes or arrays and for second part - ozonated water we'll need a source of compressed air, such as fish tank pump and maybe even stone diffuser.
    One way of generating HV would be by the use of voltage multiplier, such as - voltmultip22.jpg
    Second, which I decide to do is based on flyback TV transformer. They usually resonate in 20kHz range. Mine does at 28kHz and pulls 0.36A from 12V DC source. I'm not looking for spectacular purple discharge but just glowing tips of the electrodes for the creation of ionic wind rather than massive amounts of ozone.
    Right now I've been running my driver circuit for the past few hours and it runs cool without heatsink on FET's. However, it is possible to run with more power and produce 2+ inch purple arc but this will cost about 4A and require transistors to be mounted on heatsink. I'm using small pancake coil connected to the scope probe to "sniff" the sine wave from a distance.
    This is the circuit of flyback driver designed by Vladimiro Mazzilli-
    Flyback Driver Vladimiro Mazzilli.jpg
    and patent of Nikola Tesla - Aparatus For Producing Ozone.JPG

    I'll provide more info and technical detail as I progress and of course if there is an interest in this subject.

    Thanks
    Vtech
    Last edited by blackchisel97; 12-02-2012, 01:26 PM.

  • #2
    I've had ionizers in the past, but I was not too satisfied with their usefulness. Ozone is a consequence of this type of set up, and is not really what is needed in a room, or something that you would want to have to breath.
    When the ionizer is working, it will also precipitate everything that is in the air, to near by it, to table surfaces, floor, walls etz... So, you get this smudge all over everything.
    I did not experience anything positive from these ionizers, even less than just opening a window to let fresh air into the room. Certainly not the same effect as a waterfall, being on the ocean front, or any other outside natural pure air activity or situation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NickZ View Post
      I've had ionizers in the past, but I was not too satisfied with their usefulness. Ozone is a consequence of this type of set up, and is not really what is needed in a room, or something that you would want to have to breath.
      When the ionizer is working, it will also precipitate everything that is in the air, to near by it, to table surfaces, floor, walls etz... So, you get this smudge all over everything.
      I did not experience anything positive from these ionizers, even less than just opening a window to let fresh air into the room. Certainly not the same effect as a waterfall, being on the ocean front, or any other outside natural pure air activity or situation.
      Hi NickZ. Many devices on the market are useless and don't do what their manufacturers claim. I'm working on the device which creates negative ionic wind without significant amounts of ozone. Once you allow more current and create corona discharge you'll end up with ozone, which is fine for disinfecting purposes but shall not be used in occupied and enclosed spaces. I want very small amount of negative ions to be produced in this process only to restore healthy balance of the air I'm breathing.
      Yes, polarized particles will cause all impurities floating in the air to stick to the surfaces which have opposing charge but I prefer to dust them off rather than inhale it.
      Second part is using small amount of ozone - by adjusting jets to create ozonated water thru the bubbler and diffuser rock. I'll do some tests on plants first.

      Thanks
      Vtech

      Comment


      • #4
        greeting blackchisel97...
        thank's for opening this thread...completing my bob beck device, i was searching how to build an ozone generator, but seriously i've never jump up on the HV field (fear with logo of HV and the lightning strike with the red text ANGER!)
        so i've decided to buy from china an ozone generator/water bubbler. It cost's $30 for free shipping. That thing only stay about 3 month or less. first the pump was idle, then the box starting to bite everypeople in my house, when they want to use it (if the light of my room was not so bright, there's a purple light out of between the snap box and the joint)
        So i open up the box, switch on, and bang, that purple thing bite my wedding ring, and shock me up, that was danger, but not DANGER! :lol:
        the circuit lies with a 2 type of transformer, a flyback, and a typical E core, with 2 0f 3/4" stainless tube laying separate but connected each other via an aquarium hose.
        After that, i decided to make mine. Thank's to the internet and the energeticforumdotcom for sharing the ideas . Couraging my self and something i've got a lot from here : Ozone generator..., i completed my ozone generator (people in my house start missing their ozonated water and food). My Ozone generator can wipe out a toilet paper about a meter, if the input was 16 volt, 500 mA, (can't go higher than that, my FBT start flaw) but that was not enough to bubbling a glass of water. I want to try to add an aquarium pump in the back of the output unit, but someone's forum on the net (sorry i forgot the address again) say's that the best ozone generator for health purpose has to produce via negative output, while an FBT only producing an Positive Output. So my ozone generator only used for treat a raw food, cleaning up the room (sometimes cleaning up the smell of my boot, and for an used drug bottles for my CS storage). Now the insulation material (plastic) start leaking, maybe this time i have to upgrade my ozone generator, i want to try ceramic insulation, it's funny that i've meet an handycraft artist that want to build that insulation.

        For my healthy balance of air in my rest room, i was using an negative ion generator based on cockroft-walton style/multipler voltage via capacitor and diode. That was a thing that we must have in our rest room. for a full day of work, that was an artificial heaven in our private room
        The best capacitor i think is an x2 ceramic capacitor, with 30 off 10nF 220v x2 capacitor, connecting in half way rectifier, would produce optimal result for a room with 3 x 3 m dimension.
        Below my ozone generator, using an printer adaptor that lies around me...

        kind regards

        15112012116.jpg15112012117.jpg

        Comment


        • #5
          The paint additive Air-ReNu releases a continuous flow of healthy negative ions. Most odor molecules that "floats in the air have a positive charge. These particles act as large "rafts for toxic chemicals such as urine and smoking odors. Negative ions are attracted to this positive charge like the opposing poles of a magnet. When the negative ion gives up its charge to the particle, it becomes attracted too other positively charged particles in the air, forming masses that are too heavy to remain suspended and fall eliminating the odor. Air-ReNu a permeant solution to indoor air quality, the best part you only have to apply it one time. It keeps working 7/24/365.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nice work Thebanano. I'll also make another ionizer using voltage multiplier. I'm working my mind about construction of "reactor" tube or ion launcher, if you will. Most plastics will degrade while exposed to ozone. Also, plastics are long chains of hydrocarbons and once degraded they may become conductive - thanks to the presence of carbon molecules. To me the ideal solution would be either ceramic (fired clay) or glass tube sealed at both ends and equipped with two nozzles, one for intake and one for outlet of air. Air circulation can be enhanced by the use of air pump on the intake side to avoid any contact with ozone. Output will be directed to the bubbler, ideally by glass tube as well. For ozonator I'll probably use carbon fiber mesh instead of metal electrodes.

            Thank you
            Vtech

            Comment


            • #7
              agree blackchisel97, ceramic and glass i think is the best conductor, i'am very interest about reactor tube/ion launcher of yours, i just waiting my ceramic tube based on my last china ozonator desain....interestingly i want to duplicate tesla's ozonator based on his patent. but...the languange and the explanation of the patent was not in my brain level... if i can get more time...

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Guys

                May I ask what do you want to do with the Ozone generators?

                1. Do you want to make Ozone jell by passing the ozone through olive oil to create a cream/ jell for medical use?
                2. Do you want to aerate a room while occupying the room, iaw breathing in the ozone and for air purification specially in area with bad air quality, excellent for lung deceases etc. of course.
                3. Do you want to use the Ozone for intravenous injections, directly into the veins, normally done by a practitioner, like an LLMD.
                4. Do you want to build the unit into a sauna, while taking a sauna having the steam and ozone together for treatment.
                5. Do you want to use it for insufflation’s, or treating deceased organs and limbs by cupping, bagging organs, like hands, legs, etc.

                Maybe this will help with out re-inventing the wheel again.
                2g ozone generator for water treatment and air purifier - ZOT-2G110V - z-ozone (China Manufacturer) - Air Purifier - Consumer Electronics &
                3.5g ozone generator for water treatment and air purifier - ZOP-3.5G220V - NONE (China Manufacturer) - Air Purifier - Consumer Electronics &
                7g ozone generator for water treatment and air purifier - ZOP-7G220V - NONE (China Manufacturer) - Air Purifier - Consumer Electronics &

                Theunis
                Hey !
                WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE PORTION OF SOLAR ENERGY THAT WAS ALLOCATED TO YOU TODAY? !
                JUST THINK ABOUT IT . . .

                Comment


                • #9
                  thanks for the links theunis, for me personally making my own unit, which have not even close if to compared with manufactured ones, got more satisfaction for me...for the time and money that i have to spent on that, i think equal with what i have got in this field, because i am just a land surveyor and regional planner.
                  i am hereby glad that someone at skillfull like blackchisel97, want to "go down" and starting a numerous "low level" experiment on a thread at this forum, so we can share everything that we know, and can get more valuable result that maybe we have missed when we were in same experiment before. i hope theunis would appreciated that. :-)

                  by the way, does anyone in this forum know the electric circuit controller of tesla? what is this thing? are this was similiar with transistor ?

                  kind regards

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi guys. I was away and just got back after 1000km drive but I want to answer some questions before going to bed.
                    As I wrote earlier in post 3, I'm trying to make negative ion generator to restore the balance in the air I'm breathing without making significant amounts of ozone at the same time. I'll try to take some pictures of my launcher prototype tomorrow. They may not show well but I have very faint glow at the sharp tips only and ionic wind coming out of tubes. There is also hissing wind like sound. My electrodes are spaced about 2inch (5cm) apart from the tubes and I have current limiter on power supply which will be later replaced with 5MOhm 3W resistor in series with HV output. Without this I can get 5-6cm streamers but power draw will go up to 4A. I don't need that. Capacitor paralleled with primary winding can be adjusted too. I had 2 x 0.47uF 630V and was getting resonance at 28kHz. I took one off and frequency went up to 38kHz. Power draw is about 0.34A at 15VDC.
                    I will provide more details and pictures (maybe short YT) about this circuit. I'll build another one based on voltage multiplier to compare and use one for negative ions and other for ozone. I want to use ozone for disinfecting and cleaning purposes also, to make ozonated water. In higher concentrations ozone isn't beneficial and can cause respiratory problems so I'm not looking to saturate the air with it. At least not the areas occupied. I need some more time but I'm very happy with HV circuit. I used IRFP460 because I had them and they're rated at 400V but IRFP250 are cheaper and will do just fine. Once in resonance everything runs cool. I tried at 12V but went up to 15V to make sure that FET's will switch good. Capacitor should be MPP (metalized polypropylene) rated at 400-630V. I will explain how to utilize HV transformer which can be salvaged from broken TV and it is free.

                    Thebanano, I'm not sure which Tesla Controller you're talking about. Could you provide more details or patent number?

                    Thanks
                    Vtech

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Guys

                      I am all for experimenting, and building your own, it's the best way of learning and no one can take that away.

                      My experience is when building ozone generator, the hot corona units get very hot (in fact red hot if not cooled), and breaks down most of the beneficial effect of ozone and can generating "not so healthy" or noxious gasses at the same time !

                      I tried electronic units and are back at using a "Neon sign lighting" transformer (not the electronics ones), at 7 000v at 3 mA (i think), with a 3 mm glass plate and stainless steel screening on both sides, this unit runs gold, it can be used in a closed room without any side effects.

                      If i use the the same glass with screen on an electronic unit it get almost red hot after a while, I think when the gas is heated up that all kinds of funny and dangerous combinations can appear.

                      (Sorry Vtech have not done an negative ion generator yet will follow and watch your results. Just had to clarify the Ozone thing)

                      Theunis
                      Last edited by Prinsloo; 12-05-2012, 11:58 PM.
                      Hey !
                      WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE PORTION OF SOLAR ENERGY THAT WAS ALLOCATED TO YOU TODAY? !
                      JUST THINK ABOUT IT . . .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Vtech,

                        This is something I know nothing about. Would you be willing to cite some of the studies relating to negative ions in the air. I should not be lazy and spend more time on PubMed and elsewhere but it seems a bit difficult to tease out. I know Albert Svent-Gyorgi (if I have his name right) the Nobel prize winning discoverer of vitamin C was very interested in electrical facets to health. There is also, of course the issue of oxidation, which would seemingly be retarded in a reduced ambient environment. Anyhow if you have some studies I could take a look at I would be both interested and thankful.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hello all.
                          Theunis, you don't need a massive amounts of ozone being created. I'm trying to mimic nature which works with subtle fields. One natural source of negative ions working witch such is a shower. Moving water, such as waterfall, cascade or fountain will create such. Also, moving water gets energized and passes this to the environment. Think of Lord Kelvin experiment with water droplets falling thru the tubes and HV discharge. Also, work of Russel, Schauberger or - going back in time aquifers under the Great Pyramids. Ever wonder why quick shower is so regenerating? First of all, it removes static charge from our bodies by grounding excessive potential but also invigorates. Electrical processes in our bodies are on very low voltage level. At the same time static charge on the top of our head my reach 200+V. We wont fry our circuitry because of that but we can fry sensitive equipment or components such FET's by touching them. However, this excessive charge accumulates and affects us all the time. There is another thread started on Earthing or Grounding.
                          Once you get corona discharge you also get large quantity of ozone. This is fine for commercial applications such as disinfecting, water treatment and such but not for home use.

                          Paul, I'll get the reference you're asking about later today. I need to go and try to make some $.

                          Thanks
                          Vtech

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Paul, here I got some info on the subject of ions and their effect on biological forms -
                            Dr Clarence Weston Hansell -
                            Stony Brook University Special Collections & Archives box 15
                            Columbia Psychiatry
                            Penn State Department of Architectural Engineering
                            Cambridge Journals Online - Abstract
                            Dr Kornblueh - Report of the committee of ionization of the air - Springer
                            Ions Can Do Strange Things to You
                            Research on Negative Ions - Imazine Canada
                            http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...lslVWxtegW-CMQ
                            Detailed information about negative ions and ionizers (printable)
                            http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ta...130.133&org=10

                            There is more but this was enough to make me curious

                            Thanks
                            Vtech
                            Last edited by blackchisel97; 12-06-2012, 04:36 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I took couple shots of my NIG (Negative Ion Generator) prototype -
                              IMG_0607.jpgIMG_0604.jpgIMG_0605.jpgIMG_0606.jpg
                              and just started uploading short YT. It should take about 4 hrs - http://youtu.be/MReUF8n8U74
                              More to come

                              Thanks
                              Vtech

                              PS I just found neat ZVS simulation on YT - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ONq3DxXE2w
                              Last edited by blackchisel97; 12-08-2012, 06:30 AM.

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