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Currently working on Bedini Beginner

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  • #16
    Where is connected other end of trigger winding? It should go to the same spot as your primary negative.

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    • #17
      It is connected to the negative of the input battery. We didn't connect those in the pictures because it looked really messy and hard to get a clear picture of the circuit. I think we have the set up right, but not sure why it is not working. Is there any suggestions you can give for us to troubleshoot? We tried changing the 470 to 120 resistors and it still did not work
      Last edited by bedinistarter; 03-26-2019, 12:17 PM.

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      • #18
        I will attempt to explain better. When the magnet is passing by the coil at low rpm, the change in magnetism is slow and takes longer. When it is slow the voltage induced into the trigger is low. As you increase the speed of the magnet passing the core the magnetic change is the same but it happens faster so the voltage induced into the trigger will be higher.

        When you initially start the wheel by hand, the magnet induces a "low" voltage. When the resistance of the path to the base of the transistor is low enough for THAT voltage....the transistor will turn on. If this happens and the transistors turn on enough to run the machine, it will begin to speed up.

        What happens when the machine speeds up is the voltage in the trigger will raise higher and higher as the speed increases.

        With the sg machine you want the transistor to turn on "just enough" to kick the magnet away.

        If you have a low base resistance, the transistor will turn on at lower speeds but will stay on longer or pulse multiple times. If the resistance is high then you have to spin the wheel very fast to get the transistor to turn on.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bradley Malone View Post
          I will attempt to explain better. When the magnet is passing by the coil at low rpm, the change in magnetism is slow and takes longer. When it is slow the voltage induced into the trigger is low. As you increase the speed of the magnet passing the core the magnetic change is the same but it happens faster so the voltage induced into the trigger will be higher.

          When you initially start the wheel by hand, the magnet induces a "low" voltage. When the resistance of the path to the base of the transistor is low enough for THAT voltage....the transistor will turn on. If this happens and the transistors turn on enough to run the machine, it will begin to speed up.

          What happens when the machine speeds up is the voltage in the trigger will raise higher and higher as the speed increases.

          With the sg machine you want the transistor to turn on "just enough" to kick the magnet away.

          If you have a low base resistance, the transistor will turn on at lower speeds but will stay on longer or pulse multiple times. If the resistance is high then you have to spin the wheel very fast to get the transistor to turn on.

          Thank you so much for explaining. I think I get it now. We have been spinning it with a low starting speed, maybe that might be the reason as why the transistor is not turned on. I will try and update back here! I appreciate your time and knowledge.

          Did you by any chance looked at the pictures of my circuit. Everything seems like its well connected. I just want to make sure that the circuit is connected right so that I can rule that out as a mistake and troubleshoot other aspects.
          Last edited by bedinistarter; 03-26-2019, 02:50 PM. Reason: have not finish my explanation

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          • #20
            Hi all,

            This is an updated circuit with the battery all connected and labelled, more close up of the circuit is in the previous post where I attached the the close up of the circuit with labels.

            Today while we were testing, the NEON bulb light up, but my question is, are all of them suppose to light up at once or sequentially because not all of them light up.

            WhatsApp Image 2019-03-28 at 10.39.41 AM.jpg

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            • #21
              WhatsApp Image 2019-03-28 at 10.39.41 AM.jpg

              I added some lines to connect the wires so that it can be seen clearly

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              • #22
                Originally posted by bedinistarter View Post
                Hi all,

                This is an updated circuit with the battery all connected and labelled, more close up of the circuit is in the previous post where I attached the the close up of the circuit with labels.

                Today while we were testing, the NEON bulb light up, but my question is, are all of them suppose to light up at once or sequentially because not all of them light up.

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]7328[/ATTACH]
                Yes that is right they all have light up together, there is imbalance in your circuit the coils have to be twisted this would atleast ensure
                that the coupling mutually between is uniform. The idea is to have exact values of the bias resistor/transistor Hfe/ out put diode Voltage e drop. not to mention the neons also matched in terms of the same electrode gaps.
                Rgds,
                Faraday88
                'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Faraday88 View Post
                  there is imbalance in your circuit the coils have to be twisted this would atleast ensure
                  that the coupling mutually between is uniform. The idea is to have exact values of the bias resistor/transistor Hfe/ out put diode Voltage e drop. not to mention the neons also matched in terms of the same electrode gaps.
                  Rgds,
                  Faraday88
                  Hi, thank you for your input. The wires we used were twisted, what do you suggest I do to ensure that the I have the exact values of bias? Is there a way I can modify this 8 coil into something simpler since this has to be very exact in terms of all the components to time the circuit properly..
                  Hope to hear back from you soon.

                  Thank You

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bedinistarter View Post
                    Hi, thank you for your input. The wires we used were twisted, what do you suggest I do to ensure that the I have the exact values of bias? Is there a way I can modify this 8 coil into something simpler since this has to be very exact in terms of all the components to time the circuit properly..
                    Hope to hear back from you soon.

                    Thank You
                    Ok,if you have twisted the strands the twist quality matters too! so kindly post a good photo view of the coil, one way is perhaps to re-twist them in the opposite direction.My experience says a good quality of twisting can make the coupling so good that you can even ignore to match the transistor Hfe. you are not there unless you see the neon glow orange -red all of them!
                    Right now I see there is a preferential discharge occurring between them so you will see one of them glowing to pink-violet and the others faint orange.
                    Also try always to have a global resistor of 12 Ohms/10W that feeds all other branch resistors to the bases.
                    Rgds,
                    Faraday88.
                    Last edited by Faraday88; 03-29-2019, 08:27 AM.
                    'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

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                    • #25
                      WhatsApp Image 2019-03-30 at 2.43.49 PM.jpgWhatsApp Image 2019-03-30 at 2.44.18 PM.jpg

                      These are the close up for the coil winding.
                      If at add a 100kohm potentiometer and change all the resistors to 100 ohm do you think there will be a difference and help tune the system?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Coil Twist.jpg
                        Originally posted by bedinistarter View Post
                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]7330[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]7331[/ATTACH]

                        These are the close up for the coil winding.
                        If at add a 100kohm potentiometer and change all the resistors to 100 ohm do you think there will be a difference and help tune the system?
                        Hi,
                        Your coil spool is wrapped with the insulation tape I need to see the exposed spool although the twist is visible at the coil ends, I need to see if the coil wrapping is uniform or not. I have attached a photo of 8-filar twisted coil, this gave me equal brightness in all the neons and same colour without matching any transistors.
                        Rgds,
                        Faraday88.
                        Last edited by Faraday88; 03-30-2019, 11:36 PM. Reason: photo addition
                        'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

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                        • #27
                          If the neons lit up when you hooked the power to the battery then you have the trigger backwards and it is in a forced oscillation mode.

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                          • #28
                            IT lit up when the charged battery was not connected, when everything is connected it doesn't light up anymore. Did you manage to take a look at the circuitry?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bedinistarter View Post
                              IT lit up when the charged battery was not connected, when everything is connected it doesn't light up anymore. Did you manage to take a look at the circuitry?
                              You are correct Bedinistarter, and its the same case if it is driven forced oscillation mode or Standard oscillation mode.
                              one pointer is make all the collectors common and with that you should see all the neons glow.
                              Rgds,
                              Faraday88.
                              'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bedinistarter View Post
                                IT lit up when the charged battery was not connected, when everything is connected it doesn't light up anymore. Did you manage to take a look at the circuitry?
                                Let's start from step 1. Run battery disconnected and charge battery disconneced.....wheel stationary.

                                When you connect power to the "run" battery nothing should happen. If the neons light up at this point then the trigger is backwards. If nothing happens then it is as it should be.

                                Once you have done that....if you spin the wheel you should see the neons light up when the magnet is passing the coils. "THIS CAN BURN OUT THE TRANSISTORS" IF DONE FOR LONG.

                                If that happens but the machine does not continue then I would recommend testing the coil strands for each resistance to make sure they are the same. And maybe run the machine with one strand at a time untill you understand the operation.

                                If you get to the point where the wheel is spinning under power then attach a charge battery. The charge battery absorbs the power that was lighting the neons. So when it is connected the neons should go out and the battery should begin to charge.

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