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Bedini-Cole 1971 to 1984 built from lab notes WINDOW MOTOR

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  • #16
    Hi All,
    CNC machine is up and running so I can start on the
    WM 3 coil frame.
    It won't be CNC'd because the CNC machine is mostly an engraver (small) for lettering and pcb's
    Going to use pvc.
    Machinable and super glue is stronger than pvc so good joints are reliable.
    Got to think and plan carefully with regard to accuracy.
    Thanks,
    bro d

    Comment


    • #17
      Running with 3 coils.

      Hi All,
      At this point I need some expert advice.
      I wound 3 coils, 120T apiece, #19 wire.
      In parallel it is an amp hog and not feasable.
      In series seems to be the right direction.
      I desire to wind 3 coils to run slow and with hi torque.
      Do I need to go with parallel:
      Many turns
      Smaller wire
      Or do I need to go series:
      #15 or so wire and 350-400T total?

      I would greatly appreciate a tip or 2 form John Bedini.
      I understand hooking trannies in parallel and beta matching.
      I need a master's tip on the coils for torque.
      It's hard for me to believe that John B's 10,000rpm machine has coils in parallel.

      Speculation from non builders will not help at this point.

      The balancing job on the rotor is great.
      I had it running at 1350rpm (26lb rotor) the 2 frame end plates were attached to the shaft only, not the the base or to one another.
      Totally stable. Also, was able to tune the cct so that at 38v 1.1A there was no heat.
      The only heat on the whole rig was the bearings were slightly warm to touch and transferred to the shaft

      The 3 coil run pic is the rig running at 1350rpm as discribed.
      I'll be making a timing wheel and hall holder that matches the pvc frame.

      frame pic 2.jpg3 coil run pic.jpg

      Thanks,
      bro d
      Last edited by brodonh; 04-23-2014, 03:53 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by brodonh View Post
        Hi All,
        At this point I need some expert advice.
        I wound 3 coils, 120T apiece, #19 wire.
        In parallel it is an amp hog and not feasable.
        In series seems to be the right direction.
        I desire to wind 3 coils to run slow and with hi torque.
        Do I need to go with parallel:
        Many turns
        Smaller wire
        Or do I need to go series:
        #15 or so wire and 350-400T total?

        I would greatly appreciate a tip or 2 form John Bedini.
        I understand hooking trannies in parallel and beta matching.
        I need a master's tip on the coils for torque.
        It's hard for me to believe that John B's 10,000rpm machine has coils in parallel.

        Speculation from non builders will not help at this point.

        The balancing job on the rotor is great.
        I had it running at 1350rpm (26lb rotor) the 2 frame end plates were attached to the shaft only, not the the base or to one another.
        Totally stable. Also, was able to tune the cct so that at 38v 1.1A there was no heat.
        The only heat on the whole rig was the bearings were slightly warm to touch and transferred to the shaft

        The 3 coil run pic is the rig running at 1350rpm as discribed.
        I'll be making a timing wheel and hall holder that matches the pvc frame.

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]3369[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]3370[/ATTACH]

        Thanks,
        bro d
        that's quite impressive. Something like this is what i would like to put in a electric car, some day

        Comment


        • #19
          bro d, what's the DCR on each of the windings? Looks like you don't have enough wire for each of the windings. You should run them in parallel.

          John K.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by RS_ View Post
            that's quite impressive. Something like this is what i would like to put in a electric car, some day
            Hi RS, I sent you an email hoping to get some insight.
            bro d

            Comment


            • #21
              old email is not working, plz PM me......

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by John_Koorn View Post
                bro d, what's the DCR on each of the windings? Looks like you don't have enough wire for each of the windings. You should run them in parallel.

                John K.
                Hi John K,
                Thanks for responding.
                Please forgive me, I don't know what DCR means.
                The winding's are 120T,#19awg.
                Resistance on one coil is 2.9ohm.
                I'm thinking that parallel would be the same as tripling the wire size and it would take about 4 times as much wire as a full strength single coil machine.
                I want hi torque and don't need hi rpm.
                Open to your suggestions, Sir.
                Thanks,
                bro d

                Comment


                • #23
                  DCR = Direct current resistance

                  2.9 ohm is your DCR on one strand, 3 in parallel is 0.96ohm DCR

                  I would hook each strand to a individual Bedini / Cole circuit that has a common trigger, similar to what JB did to his big wheel JB / Cole circuit with 3 parallel transistor circuits.... it may need 2 sets of parallel trannys per strand
                  Last edited by RS_; 04-23-2014, 06:19 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thanks RS,
                    The picture is filling in.
                    I thought that might be the way to go.
                    I need to be sure about my wire size and number of turns.
                    Good advice can save me a lot on new wire.
                    bro d

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      bro d,

                      #19 will work but I'm pretty sure you're going need at least 3.8 ohms of wire for each strand. That should give you 1.27 ohms total DCR with all 3 windings in parallel. This will give you more speed and torque as well as less current draw.

                      Are you running the full B/C circuit with dual halls for the trigger? If so, you may need to play with the size of the hall magnets to get the right balance between torque and speed. Smaller magnets = more speed and less torque.

                      hope this helps

                      John K.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by John_Koorn View Post
                        bro d,

                        #19 will work but I'm pretty sure you're going need at least 3.8 ohms of wire for each strand. That should give you 1.27 ohms total DCR with all 3 windings in parallel. This will give you more speed and torque as well as less current draw.

                        Are you running the full B/C circuit with dual halls for the trigger? If so, you may need to play with the size of the hall magnets to get the right balance between torque and speed. Smaller magnets = more speed and less torque.

                        hope this helps

                        John K.
                        Yes John K that is a big help.
                        I put on 3 strands of #22, with 300 turns and it's 5ohm per coil.
                        Used wire that I have a lot of.
                        Putting on the 2nd one now.

                        bro d
                        Last edited by brodonh; 04-24-2014, 12:09 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ran it all day on 3 coils.
                          Getting acquainted with it.
                          Working on etchable boards.
                          I learned Target 3001!V16 discover.
                          Nice free circuit program. Drew and etched a lot with it.
                          Have to try one board for each coil and also parallel tranny's.
                          Plently to do.
                          Havn't finished all the details of the frame.
                          Keepin' on.
                          bro d

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by brodonh View Post
                            Yes John K that is a big help.
                            I put on 3 strands of #22, with 300 turns and it's 5ohm per coil.
                            Used wire that I have a lot of.
                            Putting on the 2nd one now.

                            bro d
                            Hi Bro d,

                            This is probably a little late, but wanted to let everyone know we have added a wire resistance calculator under the Reference menu on our site: www.teslagenx.com/reference/awg.html
                            Select the wire gauge, length and number of strands and the parallel resistance of the wires will be calculated.

                            Erik

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              etchable WM CCT.pdfredo PARALLELED WM CCT.pdf
                              Originally posted by ErikN View Post
                              Hi Bro d,

                              This is probably a little late, but wanted to let everyone know we have added a wire resistance calculator under the Reference menu on our site: www.teslagenx.com/reference/awg.html
                              Select the wire gauge, length and number of strands and the parallel resistance of the wires will be calculated.

                              Erik
                              Thanks Eric,
                              That will come in handy.
                              Today I worked 2 cct boards for this motor.
                              I etched the standard one and populated it.
                              It passed the smoke test at 12 v.
                              The other one has 2 trannys in each position and the one that is running is a scaled back version of the parallel trannys version.
                              I'll attach pics of both ccts.
                              I'll be happy to give all info about them if someone is interested.
                              I set these up the way John B did in the video.
                              The trannys are bent flat away from the board on to Heat sink AL strips.
                              It's a challenge to make a WM cct board that is single sided.
                              I decided to have one bridge/jump wire rather than a much longer route that had a lot of weaving between compnnents.
                              I didn't add FWBR connections but can for someone if they want it.
                              That bridge can be added to the coil connections.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hi All,
                                There is a problem with the etched cct.
                                The independence of the two cct halves is Questionable.
                                Maybe someone can see it.
                                I'll go over it and redo the redo til wer're fine.
                                bro d

                                Comment

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