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what sort of alum for lead acid conversion?

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  • what sort of alum for lead acid conversion?

    there are lots of different types of alum, and grades of purity, what should you use to convert old lead acid cells, can ammonia potassium sodium alum all be used? someone must have tested these in a cell to see which performs best

  • #2
    Aluminum Ammonium Sulfate, Pickling Alum, Thrasher Hydroponics sell it on amazon and ebay, nuts.com and many others.

    Comment


    • #3
      I and many other have used Aluminium Sulphate with good success. It is cheap and sold as a pool flocculant.
      I believe Mr Bedini uses Aluminium ammonium sulphate in the videos
      You can use the Aluminium potassium sulphate as well.
      They all work!

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      • #4
        thanks, i saw a vid on youtube and bedini was using silicates and heptahydrate, he said something about releasing the formula after it was perfected and this was over a year go i wondered if his heptahydrate formula had been released?

        i also wanted to share a peice of information about using titanium oxides as an energy storage medium, there was a guy who was slated on the internet and then got a patent for the use in capacitors someone might want to try adding that to batteries either one or both of the plates to see what happens they are certainly cheap enough to obtain.

        the only one of these i have right now to use is ammonium sulphate in fertilizer form, although i do have battery acid and aluminum. somehow i dowt it would be pure enough to work

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        • #5
          BMW,

          "3 cups of water - 1 cup of Alum - 1/2 Cup of Sodium Silicate - 1/8 cup SO4 - 1 Tablespoon of Hydrate 9 or 5.
          - Mix the Alum and water first.
          - Do not let the mixture gel up unless you want to do something else (ie. Paste to plates or create a gel type battery) keep mixing, then just let it sit for a while (I think till crystals start to form?) and then mix and draw the liquid out for the battery. John explained It's not hard to make this mix you can see it forms the crystals when mixing the Alum with the acid, then you stop and mix in the hydrate, and that will then form another crystal."

          I have not tried it yet, this was from the other thread. I am waiting te hear back from Tom or Linnie to see if they could get it to work very well.
          Aln

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          • #6
            Thanks that was the mix i was looking for, i dont have the time to test this at the moment or spare funds to buy the chemicals.
            the only chemicals i have are magnesium sulphate, ammonium sulphate (low grade) and sulfuric acid, i might do a quick experiment but i dowt it will work very well i think the purity will affect the crystallization and i will get poor results.
            i have taken apart an old gel cell and have some lead plates, il let you know if it works at all!
            thanks again
            BTW i think there should be a pin board for the best circuits and formulas that isnt hard to find, you have to go through quite a few posts to find what you are looking for.
            BMW

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            • #7
              I've had luck with 2 parts H2SO4 1 part alum (as much aluminum ammonium sulphate as you can dissolve in distilled water).

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              • #8
                Hi all,

                I just discovered this forum from a youtube video showing a lead/acid battery conversion. My first reaction was that the guy was nuts! But now, I am eager to try my own.

                The first problem I am having is sourcing Aluminum Sufate without having to pay for shipping. It seems that, anymore, most grocery stores stock only a small bottle of alum and are probably charging a couple bucks for the bottle and throwing in a little alum as well.

                I found a pound of Aluminum Sulfate at Walmart, in the sewing department no less, for over $6. Then I found that my local DoItBest hardware store has it available in the lawn and garden department, as a soil conditioner (acidifier). It comes in two different 4# products: one for almost $9 and the other, less than $6. That seems like a much better deal than a few ounces for three dollars. But....

                I am wondering if these soil conditioner products might contain other ingredients that would kill the project. Does anyone have any idea?

                Thanks
                Terry

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                • #9
                  its not aluminum sulfate its ammonium aluminum sulfate, used in baking and for pickling. food grade. you can get it from myspicesage.com

                  Tom C


                  experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

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                  • #10
                    Oh.

                    Well I was going by this:
                    I and many other have used Aluminium Sulphate with good success. It is cheap and sold as a pool flocculant.
                    I believe Mr Bedini uses Aluminium ammonium sulphate in the videos
                    You can use the Aluminium potassium sulphate as well.
                    They all work!
                    And from my research, the alum produced for pickling is most usually aluminum potassium sulfate and occasionally ammonium aluminium sulfate. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum#Types)

                    So, I thought I knew what I was looking for. I guess not.

                    Thanks for the link (free shipping!).

                    Terry

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                    • #11
                      Botster,

                      I have the product from spice sage and it works well in my magnesium copper crystal batteries.

                      Tom C


                      experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

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                      • #12
                        Hello.
                        I see alum which says 17% and other 99.5% which one should I choose?

                        Can both powder or crystals work?

                        Is this one OK?

                        http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminium-Su...-/251923250878

                        I want to convert two batteries. One car battery 45AH and one deep cycle 115AH. How much do I need approximately for each battery?

                        Thank you.

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                        • #13
                          @thenulius i want to try this out. Have you had any success ?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thenulius View Post
                            Hello.
                            I see alum which says 17% and other 99.5% which one should I choose?

                            Can both powder or crystals work?

                            Is this one OK?

                            http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminium-Su...-/251923250878

                            I want to convert two batteries. One car battery 45AH and one deep cycle 115AH. How much do I need approximately for each battery?

                            Thank you.
                            Hi,
                            Your 45AH battery would need little in exess of 3 liters of water approximately.. you add the alum to this and the best way i would do is melt the crystals or powder in microwave, you get a liquid phase of alum which you can add to the 3 liters of Distilled water.
                            you need to saturate it.
                            like wise... 115AH would need approximately 15 liters.
                            if you begin with a virgin dry Lead-acid battery (lucky if you still get them that way), you pour in the solution that you prepared and Load the battery as much as you can...untill you actually bring it down to near zero...this take long time..
                            Once you get it there.. you need to do the forming of the plates..this is done by applying a reverse Voltage across the terminals and supplying a constant current to it. this also take a bit longer based on your Battery AH. This is nulling of the Lead-acid electromistry to it.
                            You Alum Battery is now ready! and has to be Charged in the normanl forward direction of Terminal Voltage and with Constant current.
                            Rgds,
                            Faraday88.
                            'Wisdom comes from living out of the knowledge.'

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                            • #15
                              This is all a bit like switching the TV on half way through an episode of Columbo. I sort of understand, but really, I don't.

                              I have several knackered lead acid batteries. With the plates in the state they probably are in, can I drain the acid, put in your fluids, and do something to get the plates OK and expect it to work fairly well?

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