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Patent #US7990110 FIG.1 - Replication

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    Well James I don't know why you would go through and erase everything you said but whatever. It probably would have helped someone but I said to you that I understand a bit more than you seemed to think that I do.

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  • James_Somewhere_In_Idaho
    replied
    Hi Bob

    James I appreciate that you want to share your knowledge but your kind of forgetting what this machine is, it is not built for "intentional frequencies" that is a side show where I was forcing frequencies across THIS coil.That will not be in perfect resonance but it is fun to play with and at least it creates field that a lot of people seem to think is a beneficial frequency rather than one that could drive you crazy.

    You seem to think that what I am doing is just run of the mill standard fair but I have not actually seen this type of device built by anyone else around here, jazzy frequencies or not. Not that it is hard to make, it is not at all and that is kind of the point of it. Maybe down the road I could do it right and make coils specifically for each frequency that I want and actually ring them into resonance.

    I understand a great deal more than you seem to think I do. maybe I'm just reading you wrong dunno...
    No Bob, I do not think these things that you are supposing that I think. I was just excited that you where venturing into this realm with your experiments. I do not presuppose that I know anything more than anyone else here. In fact, I was just hoping to share what I had learned with someone I felt was my contemporary, in order to help them in areas I felt I could help (not that those areas are many), while gaining insight from their experiments as well...is that not what a forum is about?

    I am sorry that you feel the way you do, it was not my intention. Maybe I need to be more careful with how I say things, and with the questions I ask, and/or what i share and do not share--exercise more self-censorship and political correctness, as it were, pertaining to things discussed on this forum.

    Over the past few weeks, I have pulled most of my stuff (photo albums, documentation, plans, etc) off of this forum, as of late, and have considered going back to what I was doing over the past couple years--just observing and doing my own experiments quietly--"go dark" as it were, like others who started this forum seem to have done...

    Moreover, I have lately been editing my posts, taking out things I had thought was important to others, that turned out was actually NOT. Plus, I would remove things that might seem too "trivial" to others (project plans, designs, and certain things about how I go about designing something), or could easily be misconstrued into some sort of a food fight, and so forth...

    I had been looking at your experiment as a really great thing, and have been trying to learn from you...that's all...hoping I could help where I can...

    ...but, hey...good luck with your builds, I hope you get to where you want to go...cheers...

    ...Edited for clarity...
    Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 01-05-2016, 12:04 PM.

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    James I appreciate that you want to share your knowledge but your kind of forgetting what this machine is, it is not built for "intentional frequencies" that is a side show where I was forcing frequencies across THIS coil.That will not be in perfect resonance but it is fun to play with and at least it creates field that a lot of people seem to think is a beneficial frequency rather than one that could drive you crazy.

    You seem to think that what I am doing is just run of the mill standard fair but I have not actually seen this type of device built by anyone else around here, jazzy frequencies or not. Not that it is hard to make, it is not at all and that is kind of the point of it. Maybe down the road I could do it right and make coils specifically for each frequency that I want and actually ring them into resonance.

    I understand a great deal more than you seem to think I do. maybe I'm just reading you wrong dunno...

    Leave a comment:


  • James_Somewhere_In_Idaho
    replied
    Hi Bob

    Hehehe...I bought a big rack-mount DMX-512 unit (LED lighting controller for concerts) that had 16-D1D40s, 2-8 channel DMX-512 control boards (think "programmable" relay board with 8 relays), 16-high amp rocker switches with breakers, some LEDs and a few other things for $100 on Ebay a couple years back. I am using 2 of the SSRs, half of the huge heat sink, a few rocker switches, a bunch of wiring, and the rack-mount component box from that in my current build.

    ...Removed a bunch of trivial stuff...

    Anyway...it's all a learning experience. I do not wish to be dependent on others for my needs. That is why I have delved deeper into this than most tend to.
    Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 01-04-2016, 10:55 PM.

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    Hi James,
    No I have not really gone that route. My understanding is that if you want to do that it is best to disconnect BOTH power leads so I would imagine some sort of dual or quad relay arrangement to flip both legs back and fourth.

    I am not too worried about the primary because I intend to run this one on solar most of the time. Being winter I have not had enough sun to really play much with that but I have hooked up a 50 watt panel to this thing and it loves it when their is enough sun. Because it is a solid state rather than a wheel it will self start if a cloud blocks the panel for too long. I also put a 15k cap on the front as a buffer.

    By the way I tried dialing in your frequency but I was not getting any action. I know the MC was capable because my meter was responsive as I dialed in but at that frequency I think the coil I have on there is to slow, it's either that or the relay won't go that fast. The data sheet is not specific on the max frequency of that device (it's the little EL series).

    You got some d1d40's from salvage? Lucky you my friend, I am ordering two of them for the wheeled machine I'm working on and those things are $83 a piece.

    I have some 14AWG coils I can throw back on this machine and see if I can get the higher frequency. See the problem is the resistance of the coil will not let the current pass that quickly ( at least I am guessing) so if I put a much lower resistance coil I should be able to open and close faster and get some current through.

    Anyway that's where I'm at for now.

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  • James_Somewhere_In_Idaho
    replied
    Hi Bob and John K et al

    John, thank you for that information.

    Bob, interesting video. I remember John B saying something about being able to charge the primary,. However, one had to be careful not to do it while it was running the circuit--saying to only back charge when the run circuit was switched off. Of course, that might happen several times per second, in-between run pulses. Have you experimented with that idea?

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    Great information John, thanks again. You know I have seen the 555 in probably more projects than any other chip. A lot of the Bob Boyce guys use them in the toroid drivers for their plates.

    So James here is a video which shows the advantage of a MC. This one was shot a few years ago but it explains pretty clearly the programming I was using and why. This is not the driver, this was a cap dump but I later started using the same technique on all kinds of things. It is a little long but watch the whole thing because it builds upon itself.

    Link:
    http://1drv.ms/1mxEpOF

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  • John_Koorn
    replied
    Hey guys, just to add, if you just want to use a MC as a timing device there are other options available. Here's some you may want to think about...

    The good old 555 timer is an easy chip to play with. Very cheap, but you can do a fair bit with it. There are plenty of timing calculators online you can use to compute the Rt and Ct values to get your frequency and duty cycle. I guess the down side is you are limited to >51% duty cycle out of the box, but there's a couple of circuits around that can get around that. It's also difficult to maintain the duty cycle if you're adjusting the Rt on the fly.

    Next on the list is the tried and trusted SG3525A. Mostly used for its PWM dual channel complimentary outputs in push-pull circuits such as power supplies, inverters and DC-DC converters, it's easy to setup and very robust. It's limited to 100Hz-400kHz but that's a pretty decent range for a cheap chip. (Bob, it would run your 528Hz SS SG and cap dumper no problem ). It also has capability for dead time adjustment and will also sink/source 200mA at a Vcc between 8v-40v. Also has onboard error amplifier, although I haven't played with that part of it.

    However, if you're thinking of playing with a PIC (or other type of MC) I would suggest getting a prototyping kit that supports a high-end chip that has all of the capabilities. This will allow you to experiment a lot further and do a lot more.
    I use a PICAXE 40X2 (PIC 18F4520) mounted on an AXE022 prototyping kit which has USB connection to my PC. The software is free and as I said, very easy to learn. Once you get savvy with the software you can also use the built in simulator and debug features.
    The good thing I found was that I can use the prototyping kit to develop the circuit I'm building and then when I'm ready to do a proper build I can buy a lower end PIC that just does what I need it to do.

    Anyway, food for thought.

    John K.

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  • Faraday88
    replied
    Originally posted by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho View Post
    Hi John K and Bob

    John, my research, much like you say, indicates that the PIC is more versatile, especially for open source projects. Thank you for your input.

    Bob, Hmmm...I had not thought of that. Thank you. I will probably get her running, and finish restoring all three sets of my big batteries, then sell two sets for seed money, and play with the charger in different configurations with the set I intend to keep...maybe try your idea then. Sounds intriguing.

    I sat down and pre-soldered all the hard circuits to the transistors (16 matched sets) this evening. Hopefully, I will be mounting them tomorrow, then on to cutting out component holes on the front panel. Maybe I'll upload a couple pics (temporarily) when it's up-n-going, if you all are interested in seeing it...
    Hi James,
    I liked your signature phrase below.... i remember reading it from JB site in the early 2000's...
    Rgds,
    Faraday88.

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  • James_Somewhere_In_Idaho
    replied
    Hi John K and Bob

    John, my research, much like you say, indicates that the PIC is more versatile, especially for open source projects. Thank you for your input.

    Bob, Hmmm...I had not thought of that. Thank you. I will probably get her running...Removed trivial stuff... and play with the charger in different configurations with the set I intend to keep...maybe try your idea then. Sounds intriguing.

    ...Removed some trivial stuff...
    Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 01-04-2016, 10:54 PM.

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    I might have to try PIC sometime, thanks for sharing the info John.

    James, a comment on one thing you said..

    I hope to design a shut down circuit that uses that senses 15.3-15.3 volts and shuts down the charging for a period of time, to let the battery settle, then turns it back on--doing that until I show up to turn the system off
    I tell you what.... once you get the logic in place for that their is a similar thing you can do to really improve your cop. I have done a similar thing but not using any voltage sensing. If you run a solid state at a fairly high frequency, at least a 100HZ or better and program an intentional rest in the freaking battery will increase it's charge rate and voltage when it starts back up.

    I'm not sure if I am explaining this in an understandable way but what I mean is charge for say 5 min, then stop for a min, then back on again for 5 , then back off again,, What happens is the charge keeps going even when off, and the primary recovers a bit when off, so when it kicks back on you will see it return and climb the same as if you never put the break in. Now I do not mean like if your at 14+ volts and you cut off it will magically stay up there, no it wont but when it kicks back on you will notice that the curve proceeds as if it had been running the whole time. I have heard some of the long timers say things like "it keeps charging after shut off" but I didn't really understand, I was looking for the meter to stay where it was. That's not how it works but those ion's are still moving and it is like charging for free. The periods need to be worked out for the machine in use and the charge target but it does work, I just threw the 5 min and 1 min in as an example in the real world you have to find the right run/pause ratio. I have seen the best results using this method from mode one, not cap dumping. Maybe I will shoot a little vid of it.

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  • John_Koorn
    replied
    Hi guys, my 2 cents worth...

    I've used different models of PIC a lot and find them very easy to work with. Programming in BASIC is pretty easy and there's a lot of documentation and support forums on the internet. Like Bob said, a MC is a very handy tool for experimenting. I've mostly used mine to drive optocouplers as well as using the ADC inputs to sense cap or battery voltages. I also used one for a battery rejuvenator, whereas the PIC would allow the user to select the charge and load level and then control the charging circuitry, sense the battery voltage, control variable loads and display the status and battery voltage on an LCD.

    Most recently I used mine as a push-pull circuit controller by using the advanced PWM module. This allowed me to clock the CPU at 40Mhz and achieve PWM frequencies of up to 1Mhz with programmable duty cycle and dead time control.

    John K.

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  • James_Somewhere_In_Idaho
    replied
    Hi Bob

    Ya, I salvaged a boatload of Crydom D1D40 SSRs of which I am using two in my current build...Removed trivial stuff...This is a good topic...Thanks Bob...
    Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 01-04-2016, 10:52 PM.

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  • BobZilla
    replied
    I only work with the Arduino so I couldn't say about the others, not in a snobbish way it's just that I picked my first ard up at radio shack on a whim and just found it easy to work with so I stuck with it.

    There are plenty of tutorials out there to show how to build custom boards that can be made smaller or use only chips and power required for your final project. The Arduino UNO is what I use and it has a lot of stuff that I do not use on it but that doesn't bother me.

    Here is a look at how you can make custom boards for specifec applications. I personally never bothered because the uno is acceptable size and power for my needs.

    Link:
    http://playground.arduino.cc/Learning/AtmegaStandalone

    I have been eyeballing this little gem for future projects, small and ready to go.
    https://www.adafruit.com/products/1501


    As you have seen on the machine featured in this thread pair an aurduio with a solid state relay and you have a fantastic switching platform to play with. Pay close attention to the relays input requirement and you can run it directly from the MC. 2nd generation uses 1.5ma and 3rd gen generally 10-15ma.

    I use crydom SSR's which come in 5, 10, 20, 40, 60, 100 A load handling configurations. You saw in the other thread for my new wheel where I was using the crystal cells to power a relay, that was the 5A load model, if a crystal cell can do it you know the aurduino can too right ;-) The first version of this device used a FET instead of the SSR and Aurduino powered it on it's own too.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 01-03-2016, 02:47 PM.

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  • RS_
    replied
    I like the Arduino's better, and the Arduino Micro has been a good one so far, and the Spark Fun Arduino PRO Micro with the Spark fun 5A Hall current sensor has been good, a bit trickie to get to not have noise on it in the mA ranges, but has worked for over 1A very well

    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12640

    https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8883

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