cap dump schematic questions

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

Earlier this week finished my comparator. After starting it up initially, some smoke came out since I forgot to break a connection on my stripboard . But after fixing that, the comparator seemed to work as it should. Run it for just a few minutes, looking at my scope how the dump signal changed while I turned the potmeters. I added the LED light in parallel as you mentioned in your build as an indicator to see when it dumps.

Further more did the common-ground-/generator mod on my SG (with 2x 1N5408 in parallel), let it run for a couple of minutes and seemed to work fine too.

Next thing I want to do is look a bit closer at my potmeter (for the base resistance) and air gap in comparison to Aaron's findings in this* video, since he seems to get opposite results of what I get, will report later on this when done:

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM-PZiTUJZo

Regards,
Rodolphe

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

...but usually my SG charges best when running in straight common ground mode.

So this I find very peculiar, based on the info in the (hand)books ( as mentioned in my post #77).
The sharp discharge gradients of the cap dump are one of the negative energy triggers...

Although I could understand that the state and the capacity of the batteries might have an influence on it as you suggest, based on the theory I still would expect the cap dump circuit to always yield a better/higher output than without... strange...

UPDATE 2020-04-20
Just finished watching EFV DVD 28, relating to my understanding that in theory the cap dump circuit should always yield a beneficial effect I quote JB (27min in the video):

...charge the battery quickly and there is only one way to do that and that is with a capacitor dump and the correct frequency and the correct resonance

Regards
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

However, if I read some of your earlier posts on the same thread, I still got the impression that you mention there that the cap dump/comparator circuit does not always yield the best results, compared to charging without it. Or are you talking about the caps for the generator coil there too? I’m referring to these sentences:

Post #7


And I can't see much difference whether it runs directly to the charge battery or through the cap discharge unit.


Post #10


The charging rate with my comparator cap dump falls somewhere between straight radiant and straight common ground modes.

I was talking about the comparator/cap dump here. I think it may depend on the size and condition of the batteries, but usually my SSG charges best when running in straight common ground mode. The common ground mode is also referred to as the generator mode of running the SSG. That gets confusing to talk about when you also add an actual generator coil to the machine, which is a completely different, independent circuit from the one running the machine.

Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi Garry,

Thanks for correcting/clearing up the quote from Volty; I misunderstood, thought he was talking about the cap dump / comparator circuit.

However, if I read some of your earlier posts on the same thread, I still got the impression that you mention there that the cap dump/comparator circuit does not always yield the best results, compared to charging without it. Or are you talking about the caps for the generator coil there too? I’m referring to these sentences:

Post #7

And I can't see much difference whether it runs directly to the charge battery or through the cap discharge unit.

Post #10

The charging rate with my comparator cap dump falls somewhere between straight radiant and straight common ground modes.

http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...nced-ssg-build

1) Ok, so we have:
-Gary’s caps: ESR 0.011-ohm, Nippon Chemi-Con ESMH800VRT223MB80T, 80V, 22,000uF
-TeslaGenX’ caps: ESR 0.017-ohm, Nippon Chemi-Con ESMH800VQT153MB63T, 80V, 15,000uF
-My caps: ESR 0.014-ohm, Mallory CGS253U075X4C, 75V, 25,000uF

So that give me at least an ballpark figure what this “Foto Flash” type should be expressed in ESR value. And if TeslaGenX’s caps are fast enough with the highest ESR value, then yours and mine certainly are.
So in case I did understand you correctly, that based on your tests using the cap dump/comparator circuit does not always yields the best results, it is not because your caps are “too slow”.

Thanks for the link. To the linear amplifier. I guess I’ll first watch EFV DVD 37 where this thing is discussed/shown. But before that: build my own comparator .

Best regards,
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

I just finished the book Free Energy Generation (FEG) - Bearden/Bedini and still wondering: Why does this book and the handbook speak of these advantages of the cap dump circuit, which do not seem to be your conclusion based on what I read on you thread “Gary's Complete Advanced" SSG Build”. I tried to read through post #17 from Volty again, and although I still don’t understand much of it, he does state too

…continue to full sef Running commutation, by ditching the Capacitors.

Volty was talking about the capacitors I have in the generator coil circuits on the back of the machine. This has nothing to do with the comparator cap dump. He was talking about back popping the run battery with a switched output from the generator coils. I didn't want to go there at the time.

1) .........The capacitors I'm using are Nippon Chemi-Con (now United Chemi-Con) ESMH800VRT223MB80T, 80 volt, 22,000 uf, snap in electrolytic. They have an ESR value of 0.011 ohms.

2) ..........Correct. The only cap dump I've used is the one I built.

3) ......... If you search cap dump, there are several threads and several posts by a large number of people who have experimented with them in several different configurations. I don't recall any of the results.

I did see John Bedini demonstrate his comparator at one of the conferences. And the next year he demonstrated a linear amplifier regulator that was an improvement over the comparator. He later switched most, not all, of his chargers and solar chargers over to the linear amplifier regulator method in place of the cap discharge method. I think the main reason was in order to charge the new LiFePo batteries which were just coming on the market.

Here's a link to the linear amplifier regulator at Teslagenx. http://www.teslagenx.com/research/tx...egory=research

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

Regarding my previous statement 5), in post #235 on this thread http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...?t=399&page=22

I just finished the book Free Energy Generation (FEG) - Bearden/Bedini and still wondering: Why does this book and the handbook speak of these advantages of the cap dump circuit, which do not seem to be your conclusion based on what I read on you thread “Gary's Complete Advanced" SSG Build”. I tried to read through post #17 from Volty again, and although I still don’t understand much of it, he does state too

…continue to full sef Running commutation, by ditching the Capacitors.

What is spoken about again and again in the book FEG, is that the sharp gradients are key. I mentioned before that raising the capacitor voltage might aid in this respect, but if John’s CAP dump circuit as sold by TeslaGenX works well with about 28V, it might not be the most important. But the fact that the capacitor needs to be able to dump quickly, brings us back to the “photo flash” specification from the handbook, which I only can think of as expressed in ESR value.
So my first question to you would be:

1) Can you tell what the exact brand/make and type of your capacitors are, so I can try to find out via the supplier/spec sheet which ESR value your caps have.
At the same time I’ll contact TeslaGenX asking them for the same information: if they can tell me the make/brand/type of the caps in the Bedini cap dump circuit they sell.

2) I assume you have never used/borrowed the cap dump circuit sold by TeslaGenX to see what results that one yields on your SG?

3) Do you know of another person/thread on the forum who experimented with the cap circuit and confirms the positive effects of the cap dump circuit?

Based on my limited understanding of what I’ve read in the book FEG, if these gradients are sharp enough, that is where most of the “magic” happens. These gradients take place in the main coil and the capacitors, so as long as they are sharp enough I would say that a cap dump circuit should always yield additional benefits compared to an SG without a cap dump circuit. Besides the “partly self-recharging” and/or over potentializing of the capacitor should be a benefit as well compared to no caps… But to get these last mentioned benefits the caps need to be conditioned/only occur when caps are used frequently. Again, these are just thoughts/theory I’m sharing based on what I’ve read.

Best regards,
Rodolphe

[pearldragon]

Thanks Gary,
That's close by. I'll send him a message right away.

Regards
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

Any chance you know of any other SG builders here in the Netherlands? If there is a knowledgeable builder here, in a face to face chat I can probably cover things in 10 minutes that would take hours via the forum.

I forgot about Floris. He is in Amsterdam. Here's a link to his user profile. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/member/141-floris/about

Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

In response to your post #71: Thanks for your answers.

2.2) Ok
2.3.2) Experimenting myself is certainly an option and would/will do that if I think it is worthwhile. The thing is that I prefer to ask first if it has already been tested before, instead of rediscovering “the wheel” . Furthermore there might be a logical reason why this is/is not preferred. Since my knowledge is still fairly limited, I ask first.
Staying on this topic; on the pages 43 to 49 of the book “Free energy generation – Bearden/Bedini” a couple of schematics are depicted with exactly that: capacitors with a very small capacitance and a high voltage rating…

Regards,
Rodolphe

[pearldragon]

The proverb holds up: Three time’s a charm; with the 3rd V-regulator it ran today

In the attachment you can find some quick tests from today with different capacitances.
As I expected you can blow up the V-regulator by reducing the discharge time too much (at least in with my setup): in the fist two tests you see that if I turn the potmeter too far, reducing the discharge time too much, the voltage keeps on climbing and I had to turn the potmeter back real quickly not to exceed the 30V+ limit and blow my last V-regulator… (this was not the cause that my previous ones have blown up, that was due to other reasons).

Next on the list: the comparator and the Advanced Handbook.
Regards,
Rodolphe
2020-04-07 - attachment.pdf

[pearldragon]

Maybe we should introduce am updated version of the saying "Lucky Luke can shoot faster than his shadow" -> "Gary H. can answer questions faster than I can write them down" .

I just have blown another voltage regulator, still have one left and high hopes to find the cause with this last one: three time's a charm!
I'll update here hopefully tomorrow

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

Any chance you know of any other SG builders here in the Netherlands? If there is a knowledgeable builder here, in a face to face chat I can probably cover things in 10 minutes that would take hours via the forum.

Sorry. I know there have been some from Europe, but I don't remember any names except for hobbyrobotik from Germany. And JulesP is in England. There may be others that are actually in the Netherlands, but I don't know who it would be.

2.2 ......

Do I understand from your answer that for the function of the circuit it does not matter whether it is a ceramic or electrolytic one?

I think either one is ok here. I'd go with whichever one I had on hand, or if purchasing new, whichever one was least expensive.

2.3.2 ..........

Would this not result then in sharper dump gradients, yielding more negative energy? (choosing the capacitance/voltage in such a way that you would stay within the limit of dumping at least once per second as you mention?

Good question. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. Maybe RS or someone else could answer this. Plus you can always experiment on your own to find the answer.

I hope to replace my blown out 7812 voltage regulator this week and find out why it blew up so that I can post some results here.

The voltage may have gone too high from either not having a battery connected to discharge into, or else maybe using too small of a capacitor that charged too fast.

Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

Yes… unfortunately it seems that I always have a very very long list of questions…. I’ll try to keep it short for a change (no guarantees for future posts though ).
I’m really grateful that you (and others who respond) take the time, over and over again, to write me answers that help me forward. Thank you very much Gary.

Any chance you know of any other SG builders here in the Netherlands? If there is a knowledgeable builder here, in a face to face chat I can probably cover things in 10 minutes that would take hours via the forum.

1). Ok, glad to hear that the voltage jump is normal and not a fault in my circuit.
2.1). Ok, if they serve no purpose, I’ll leave them out too.
2.2.) The C2 capacitor is 0.1uF. The link for the electrolytic one was for a 1uF, fault from my side. But on RS components I can find electrolytic ones which go as low as 0.1uF. Do I understand from your answer that for the function of the circuit it does not matter whether it is a ceramic or electrolytic one?

2.3.2. I read indeed that about twice the battery voltage was recommended in the handbook. But with the formula in the capacitor E =0.5C*V^2 you can keep the energy to fill the caps more or less the same by reducing the capacitance while increasing the voltage. Would this not result then in sharper dump gradients, yielding more negative energy? (choosing the capacitance/voltage in such a way that you would stay within the limit of dumping at least once per second as you mention?)
I’ll come back on this once I have my own circuit up and running with screenshots to discuss further.

I hope to replace my blown out 7812 voltage regulator this week and find out why it blew up so that I can post some results here.

Regards,
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

That's quite a laundry list of questions!

1.........

Now when I connected the negative terminal to the secondary battery, it sparked and I saw on my scope that the capacitors jumped more or less to the secondary battery level

.Every cap dump I've made has done this and it always startles me! The current has to be going thru the FET in the reverse direction to do this. It's just the caps normalizing to the battery voltage very quickly.

And when I hooked my comparator up for the last video that I posted a couple of days ago, the battery posts were a little dirty. When I spun up the SSG the cable on the positive battery post started violently popping, cracking, and throwing out big balls of blue flame ever time the caps dumped about 2 or 3 times per second! Wiggled the clamp around on the post and it quit! Every time it discharges it's a huge current flow. If you hold a magnet next to either of the cables you can feel it jumping in your hand!

2..........

Could you explain please why you left it out? What the advantage/disadvantage of that resistor is?

R.S. said it wasn't necessary and Nityesh Schnaderbeck confirmed it. Mine works fine without it.

2.2 ...........1uf is a pretty small size for an electrolytic.

2.3 .............

How can I know/determine what the voltage for these C2 capacitors should be? (from the links above the ceramic one I bought is 300V, the electrolytic one is 50V).

Even if the capture caps rise up to 30 volts, c2 and c3 will never see much above 15 volts. So anywhere from a 35 to 50 volt rating would give a good margin of safety.

2.3.1 ..........A 75 volt rating should be sufficient, and the more powerful your SSG is the more capacitance you'll need. My SSG drives the 66,000 uF caps up quickly enough in common ground mode that it dumps two or three times per second. You can see it running here in post # 237. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...sg-book/page16

2.3.2 ................The higher the voltage the longer it takes and the more energy it takes to fill them up. If it dumps less than once per second it is probably wasting energy and/or your caps are too large. John recommended to dump at about twice the battery voltage (24 to 28 volt range) and stop the dump around 16 to 20 volts for best results.

2.4.1 & 2.4.2........... Several people on this forum have used Arduino's and SSRs for cap dumping.

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

I hope you, your family and friend are still in good health with the virus thing going one.

1) The “capacitor jump” mystery
A while ago I intended to do some test/runs with my capacitor dump circuit (CDC), from page 47 of the Intermediate handbook. But noticed some strange phenomena which I would like to discuss with you to check whether they are normal or not (see attachment for visual explanation):

Everything was hooked up except for:
-the negative terminal of the secondary battery (so positive is connected already).
-the primary battery (so SG input and the timer circuit input are NOT powered)
Furthermore I had my scope connected to the terminals of the big (dump) capacitors.

Now when I connected the negative terminal to the secondary battery, it sparked and I saw on my scope that the capacitors jumped more or less to the secondary battery level (see attachment).
I quickly disconnected the negative terminal of the battery and hooked-up a amp-meter in one of the wires to the secondary battery to see if it was just a an incidental spike or if something was short-circuiting. When I connected the negative terminal again I say that the amp-meter spiked, but then came back to zero (at least it seemed zero, not sure if a very very small amperage was still flowing).

Is this normal? I did not expect the big capacitors to jump to the battery voltage when connecting. Not as long as nothing would be acting upon the mosfets, which would be the timing circuit, and that one was still disconnected. On the other hand, I could imagine that connecting the secondary battery re-arranged the grounding of the circuit and thereby very briefly putting a potential across the gates of the mosfets, opening them up just for a sec.

During that day I did do a very quick test run and the circuit did work: I saw the sawtooth profile on my scope.

Now yesterday I wanted to do some proper test runs, making some screenshots etc to show/discuss here, but noticed some strange stuff resulting in the end of blowing up the voltage regulator. After replacing the voltage regulator I will do some double checking on the circuit, but knowing if the above mentioned phenomena is normal or not, will help me. (it did happen again yesterday, when I hooked up the secondary battery, I made scope screenshot when it took place, see attachment).

Looking ahead a bit; I already got most of my parts ordered to build the comparator, but first would like the above mentioned circuit to work properly, before copying mistakes in there to the comparator circuit as well. I’m intending to build the circuit as depicted in post#106 http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...mp/page8?t=999

2.1) Comparator: Stabilizing resistor

I made RS's cap dump circuit with Nityesh Schnaderbeck's mods, minus the stabilization resistor for the opto, and added an led with limiting resistor in parallel with the opto so I can see it pulse.

(http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...nced-ssg-build post#6)
Could you explain please why you left it out? What the advantage/disadvantage of that resistor is?

2.2) Comparator: Capacitor, material

C2 will be a ceramic or Mylar in most cases, can be a electrolytic for larger values if needed to tune the on time. the C3 will always be a electrolytic

(http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...mp/page6?t=999 post#88 (& post#87))
Why does C2 needs to be ceramic/Mylar? Electrolytic is NOT possible here? Does this has to do that in the area where this capacitor are placed the voltage can reverse (AC, rather than just DC)?
Since I didn’t know how critical this was, I just bought a electrolytic and a ceramic version:
https://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/alumi...itors/4759009/
https://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/ceram...itors/7368883/

2.3) Comparator: Capacitor, voltage
How can I know/determine what the voltage for these C2 capacitors should be? (from the links above the ceramic one I bought is 300V, the electrolytic one is 50V).

2.3.1) Comparator: Capacitor, the big ones…

the capture cap should be 35 to 50V, and value sized to the input source. The other 2 caps should be 25V +

(http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...mp/page4?t=999 post#49)
The handbook stated 60000uF, 80V. I stayed as close as I could with 3x 25000uF, 75V. So I can also switch to 50000uF by disconnecting one. Voltage-wise I’m quite far off what is proposed in this post. Furthermore, how can I “value size to input source”. The “input source” is here the source to the caps -> being the SG?
2.3.2) Comparator: Capacitor, voltage continued
In the book “Free energy generation” that I’m currently reading, I understood that a sharp gradient/dump plays a role in generation of negative energy. Now I assume that getting this sharp dump line is partly determined by the ESR value of the capacitors, but also by the voltage difference between the capacitors and the battery. If this latter statement it true, why are the cap dumps done in the 20V area and not way higher? Like my caps can go to 75V, why not dump at say 65V?

2.4.1) Comparator: Arduino
Can an Arduino be used, and do away with 90% of the analog circuits?
2.4.2) Comparator: SSR
Could Solid State Relais be used instead of mosfets? Or do SSRs have a clear disadvantage compared to mosfets?

Many Thanks in advance,
Best regards,

Rodolphe
2020-04-02 attachment.pdf