John K's Superpole Bike Wheel SSG

[Thorsten]

Hi forelle,
i see there is a resistor on your neon. As I've understood you should use only neons without resistor. But that shouldn't be the actual problem as the neon is only a ensurance for your trannie. Can you take a closer shot of your connections of one transistor row and please explain even where you are connecting your batts to get a picture of your whole circuit.
Thorsten

[forelle]

Hi forelle,
i see there is a resistor on your neon. As I've understood you should use only neons without resistor. But that shouldn't be the actual problem as the neon is only a ensurance for your trannie. Can you take a closer shot of your connections of one transistor row and please explain even where you are connecting your batts to get a picture of your whole circuit.
Thorsten

Hi Thorsten,
thats right i have a resistor at the neon because they last longer when you disconnect the charge batterie.
The wire after the 5408 diodes goes to Charge +.E from trans goes to - drive and 7 wires of the coil goes to - charge and + drive.I changed the 470 ohm baseresistors to 100 ohm and put a fixed resistor(71 ohm) instead of the pot and made the gap 5mm,now i have 190 rpm@0.5amp.The waveform stays the same.I think i dont know how to adjust the oscilloscope.
Can somebody tell me what he adjusted by an analog osci,there is a AC,GND,DC switch,where shall i switch it because if i take AC or DC there is no difference exept the line at the beginning is higher or lower.
Thanks
I hope you can see everything.

[Thorsten]

Hi forelle,
everything sounds correct. So my only idea is to dubble check your solderings and to ensure that the leads on your coil are not in contact with each other. Sorry, i have no analog scope available and no exp. with that one.
Thorsten

[forelle]

Here is a drawing,maybe somebody can describe it.The problem is where the transistor switches on,where 12.5v stands,this should go up in the other direction.This wave form is from C and E direct on the transistor.
Thanks[ATTACH=CONFIG]1315[/ATTACH]

Hello again,
nobody wants to talk with me.
Is this really so comlpicated?Can somebody tell me what settings the analog oscilloscope should have that i get the same result than John K.I have made all nearly the same there couldn't be such a difference in the waveform from John to mine.Help please help.
Thanks

[forelle]

Here is a drawing,maybe somebody can describe it.The problem is where the transistor switches on,where 12.5v stands,this should go up in the other direction.This wave form is from C and E direct on the transistor.
Thanks[ATTACH=CONFIG]1315[/ATTACH]

I forgot to say,Tom C. said to put the probe to -CH and C after the diode,but when i do this i get so small waveform that i have to switch the scope to 10 mv that i can see anything,or are you measuring without the chargingbatterie?

[citfta]

Hi forelle,

I am not sure what you mean by the same results as John K. The drawing you have posted looks normal for a scope that is connected from the C to E of the transistor. The first flat part of the line is the 12.5 volts that is at the bottom of the coil when the transistor is turned off. When the transistor turns on the voltage from the C to E will go to almost zero if the transistor is turning fully on. This is when your line goes down. When your transistor turns back off the inductive spike causes the quick shooting up of the line to the 50 volts or so that you are showing. As the charge battery begins to take the current from the spike the line shows as the horizontal part of the h wave. As the spiking current is fully absorbed by the battery the line drops down to the 12.5 volts again. This all looks to be normal.

The scope shots you have posted do not look quit as good as they should. It looks like the transistor is not turning fully on as quick as it should. This could be caused by you not having the circuit tuned properly. This could also be caused by not having your scope probes properly calibrated to show a clean square wave. I would try tuning the circuit for best charging and not worry too much about what the scope shows. Without the proper training using a scope can be very misleading.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[forelle]

Hi forelle,

I am not sure what you mean by the same results as John K. The drawing you have posted looks normal for a scope that is connected from the C to E of the transistor. The first flat part of the line is the 12.5 volts that is at the bottom of the coil when the transistor is turned off. When the transistor turns on the voltage from the C to E will go to almost zero if the transistor is turning fully on. This is when your line goes down. When your transistor turns back off the inductive spike causes the quick shooting up of the line to the 50 volts or so that you are showing. As the charge battery begins to take the current from the spike the line shows as the horizontal part of the h wave. As the spiking current is fully absorbed by the battery the line drops down to the 12.5 volts again. This all looks to be normal.

The scope shots you have posted do not look quit as good as they should. It looks like the transistor is not turning fully on as quick as it should. This could be caused by you not having the circuit tuned properly. This could also be caused by not having your scope probes properly calibrated to show a clean square wave. I would try tuning the circuit for best charging and not worry too much about what the scope shows. Without the proper training using a scope can be very misleading.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Carroll,
before i saw this video http://youtu.be/c4Q5R0cCpJo if i hook it up like there then i have it like mine looks,why goes my spike not up but down before,not like in the video.Before i have not the right form i think it could not work.I have made only 5 charge-discharge cycles till now.At the moment i need about 2 batteries to load 1.So from there i think i hqave something substantial wrong and it looks like it is the wave form.Exept its because the batteries are not conditioned.
Thanks for your reply.

[kolsen]

Hi all,
I bulding a bedini sg.
and re designed it, but how can I calculate wire coils ????
Thank's Kjeld Olsen.

[Tom C]

Hi all,
I bulding a bedini sg.
and re designed it, but how can I calculate wire coils ????
Thank's Kjeld Olsen.

what do you mean you re-designed it? it 130 feet of wire on a spool with 3/4 inch diameter core. you need to purchase the Bedini SG guide.

Tom C

[Tom C]

I forgot to say,Tom C. said to put the probe to -CH and C after the diode,but when i do this i get so small waveform that i have to switch the scope to 10 mv that i can see anything,or are you measuring without the chargingbatterie?

leave the oscope alone you dont need it to tune the SG. I almost never use mine, especially for tuning, its not needed for single coil machines.

Tom C

[Tom C]

using an oscilloscope

go here to answer your scope questions.
tom C

[min2oly]

Here are 2 pictures but the quality is not good i did my best,but there must be something wrong.When i hook up a cap on the charging side it charges up to 510 volt in 2 sec.I have measured the diodes and they look good.I have new batteries wich means not conditioned.Maybe i dont know how to adjust the scope right.I have tried with a coil with only 2 wires but the wave looks the same.[ATTACH=CONFIG]1312[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1313[/ATTACH]
Thanks

This looks right.
What are you thinking is different than John K's?
the only differences I see is your magnets are spaced further apart, and you do not have the hump after the ringing.
take a look at JB's Vid here comparing the wave and two different batteries on the "same" circuit.

your more recent scope shot looks messy but the first one I copied above looks good. throw that scope out the window for a couple of weeks. Like Tom said, tune low amp/high speed. Then take a look at the scope again, try some different battery combinations... in two weeks.

Kind regards,
Patrick

[forelle]

This looks right.
What are you thinking is different than John K's?
the only differences I see is your magnets are spaced further apart, and you do not have the hump after the ringing.
take a look at JB's Vid here comparing the wave and two different batteries on the "same" circuit.

your more recent scope shot looks messy but the first one I copied above looks good. throw that scope out the window for a couple of weeks. Like Tom said, tune low amp/high speed. Then take a look at the scope again, try some different battery combinations... in two weeks.

Kind regards,
Patrick

Does really nobody here see the difference?I cant believe it.My wave beginns in the wrong direction.

[John_Koorn]

Does really nobody here see the difference?I cant believe it.My wave beginns in the wrong direction.

Hi forelle,

You said your are running the machine in attraction mode, so that is why your waveform is different. So it is perfectly normal.

If you run it in repulsion mode you will see the "normal" h-wave. Try it...

The other problem is probably your batteries.

John K.

[citfta]

Does really nobody here see the difference?I cant believe it.My wave beginns in the wrong direction.

Your wave does NOT begin in the wrong direction. If your scope is connected from the collector to the emitter you should see exactly what you are seeing. Where in the circuit you connect the scope will change what you see. Why will you not take the advice of several people that have told you to forget the scope? They are all giving you good advice. I personally have worked in electronics for over 50 years and you don't want to accept what I told you before. Forget the scope and tune for the best speed to current ratio. That is all you need to do.

Carroll