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  • #31
    Thanks Guy,
    Yea I have a ton of stuff I can do with it, the CPD is one that will get a turn. I am just getting a feel for how it runs in basic form first.

    I did a thread awhile back similar to this one but it was a 4 tranny setup with branch output so it was 2 and 2 that I ran sometimes banked together, sometimes branched out, I put a CPD on it, I put another crazy thing I came up with using photo resistors which was based on the CPD but worked a little different. This is the first 8 tranny SS I made, but I have made probably 15 - 20 smaller ones, usually one or two trannies which work good for powering LED banks or charging smaller batteries. I also usually use air cores for SS so this one with it's two coil arrangement and cores installed are a bit different from anything I have already done.

    I had originally thought I might also put this one to a wheel but I'm not sure now, I might just keep it a SS. I do want to run it from solar eventually too.

    Funny story, I built a frame for my panel that I was going to lay across the roof peak and then run my cable down through the air vent up there. It would have dropped right down into that room nicely where I could have my solar source run to that bench in the video. Well I dragged the whole thing up there set it on the peak and dammit I had put the wrong pitch on it and it just wobbled on the tip. I was so pissed I threw it off the roof because it was heavy and I didn't want to chance trying to drag it back down the ladder. So now I have the panel in the yard with the cables coming in through the window for now LOL. I charged up that garden battery yesterday with my new Solar tracker5 3A. It was nice to at least not have to carry batteries all the way out and back in but I need to do something better than running cables out the window ;-()

    Comment


    • #32
      Man I wish I had a solid understanding of the circuit. When I go through and read about it, it makes sense and I get it...but I don't retain it for long...I think because it has no context for me yet. I need some more hands on I think with building and trying different things to REALLY get it....at least the first part of what you said.

      The current explanantion though makes sense, and the 8 spikes vs 4. The way I'm picturing it is 4 people standing in a room stomping on the floor in unison, vs. 8 people doing the same thing. Independently, each stomp is no more powerful than the other. But the combined ultra-stomp creates louder amplitube and vibration...and if the right environment can resonate.

      Is that a decent analogy?

      Plus...I think what else you are saying is that it's a lot easier for 8 people to create a certain level of noise than it is for 4 people...who have to stomp a lot harder to accomplish the same result.

      Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
      Branch the transistor bases are all connected to the same trigger, the emitters are all parallel, the collectors are parallel but after the diode. So basically each power wire is it's own feed to the collector of each transistor (not parallel) but the reverse polarity where the spike shows up is parallel to the charge pos because of the diode rectifying that direction.



      Yea we are increasing the amount of current we can push but that is secondary. The real reason for doing it is to harvest more spikes from the added wires/transistors. If you think of it in basic terms all we are really doing is switching primary power from C to E, it's just a switch. When we open the switch the field collapses and the spike appears which we have given a path out the diode on the collector. Adding more and more does mean we can use more power but it doesn't have a direct correlation in my point of view. I can run my 4 tranny SS at 1 and a half amps just like this on is if you follow me. The differeance would be the amount of saturation we are inducing across the coil.

      To put it another way
      1500ma divided by 4 is 375ma per transistor
      1500ma divided by 8 is 187.5 per transistor

      I have not increased the current by using 8 so that is not the primary difference between the two, but I do now have 8 spikes instead of 4.

      Of course it is all intertwined in the end so it depends on how you look at it. If I wanted to pull say 8 amps because I have a huge bank to charge well 4 trannies won't handle that will they so then I would say yes I am doing it to increase my current LOL ,, see what I mean it's all how you look at it really.


      Now what I was more speaking about to YVes is the magnetic field in space around the machine, not the circuit. Questions such as what if you put them SNNS or SNSN or NSSN or NSNS or at 45 degress or 90 degrees,, on and on but because there are two instead of just one it opens a lot of questions that could be pursued. We are working from the magnetic field and I'm sure things could be done to manipulate outcomes, well not sure but curious.

      Guys that first run is about done. I will get the charts and whatnot and post that up in a bit..

      Comment


      • #33
        Branch that is pretty close to what I am saying. I need to add though that although I said like the collectors are not in parallel and the bases are, well it depends how you look at it again. Looking at the WHOLE circuit including what happens inside the transistor it is parallel. Looking at the base resistors and understanding that once closed current does flow through they all become parallel too if you include what happens inside the transistor.

        You do not need to build a bunch of stuff to better understand. Do what I did and get out pen and paper. Draw the circuit out, every part. Then you want to look at the flow through the circuit remembering that you have bi-directional flows. Coils do not behave the same as say a light bulb as a load. Draw it out over and over until you can do it without looking at a diagram (just make sure you don't train yourself with a mistake).

        I don't know it all bro and I bet there are plenty of people who would disagree with much of what i say. It is a learning process for all of us. I always find it kind of crazy that people will scrutinize something Mr. Bedini may have said 10 years ago as a passing comment. Our understanding of things changes with experience. We come here to share our findings and ideas but none of it is written in stone you know. That is probably why we have so many lurkers and few contributors to these pages, people are scared to say something "stupid", I say call me stupid but I am learning.

        So without all the mumbo jumbo about the circuit. In basic terms you want more transistors to charge bigger batteries or battery banks. You also want thicker wire to a point.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by guyzzemf View Post
          Bob
          good video don't forget Pats cap-diode trigger
          be for i try it has anybody tried putting a FWBR on the trigger ,don't want to do it on my 4 coil , a few more reasons to get the butler [a vanilla ssg] out
          FWBR on the tigger???
          do you mean to treat it like a node? rectify it to a capdump and/or to charge battery?
          Thanks,
          Patrick A.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
            In basic terms you want more transistors to charge bigger batteries or battery banks. You also want thicker wire to a point.

            Agreed: My wheeled 2T 14 awg will outperform my 3T 20Awg with the same length of wire as far as charging multiple car batteries in parallel and series on the back. Great thread Bob, been away from the net for a while, nice to see lots of activity going on. Keep on. Al

            Comment


            • #36
              Guy/Patrick I too do not understand the intent of a bridge on the trigger?

              There is a little bit of AC action that occurs on the primary leg and I cold see maybe trying a diode off one side, might be able to pick something off there.

              Aln,
              Great to see you buddy. I was thinking Hmm where has Aln been. There has been a lot of activity, Patrick has a fantastic thread going too. Don't you love it when the experienced builders come out to chat, I know I do.

              Thanks to everyone for participating in our discussions. If we were all lurkers there would be no content after all would there?

              Comment


              • #37
                pat bob aln, all the fwbr on trigger is a passing thought nothing to do with CPD I just wondered if anybody has tried to do it , to trigger transistor .thinking out loud. it seems a lot is lost in trigger and thinking how use all that is there the CPD is probably doing what im thinking
                im sure JB has done it and have us do it if was a good thing //
                guy

                Comment


                • #38
                  Guy I think I understand were the confusion about the trigger and bridge conversation has come up. I said in one of those videos about putting a bridge on my extra trigger, is that what you were referring too? I am sitting here watching the video I am about to post on run two and it dawned on me that that may be what you were asking about. Anyway if not,, disregard what I just said ;-)

                  Be sure to watch the video coming up however as I do cross that bridge (pun intended) ;-)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Run 2 Update:

                    I have completed run two and here are the results.

                    This run was done on the same type of battery as the first run but at a 3A draw on the primary. Also the primary was two large batteries in parallel this time. I did the first run as with identical front and back as a baseline for doing that, we may go back at some point to compare a mod against the baseline. It is not the best way to run the machines and we have already discussed that but at least we know how the machine performed when run that way with no mods.

                    The charge battery was super low in this run as we saw where I had run it down to in the previous run. These comparisons are not tightly controlled and are not meant to be. I am just sharing some results for the benefit of the group to see how this setup performs. I would be down for doing some better controlled testing if we would like to see that later on but for now I am just trying to go through some different settings to get a feel for the machines performance.

                    At face value it appears to me that nothing was really gained or lost by running at 3A vs 1.5A. The main difference was only the time required to complete.

                    Here is a breakdown of the numbers how I see them. There are variables that are not accounted for such as the first run had a primary and then a second was added when the first was dead vs two on the front from the start and the charge batteries did not start or end at exactly the same voltages etc.. I am only doing ball park observations at this point and I know this is not apples to apples.

                    First run:
                    250,000 seconds @ 1.5A (250000sec/60 =4166min/60=69.44hr)
                    69.44hr*1.5A=104 AH used

                    Second run:
                    135,000seconds @ 3A (135000sec/60=2250min/60=37.5hr)
                    37.5hr*3A=112 AH used

                    It is worth noting that the batteries were both deeply discharged to start with so I would consider these to be very full runs, meaning all of the capacity had to be put back, not 50 percent etc. The sticker says 109AH @ 1A and that is just about what we used to fill them from dead to full.

                    So comparing these two runs they are roughly the same when considering I could have stopped the charge a little early on one or ran longer on the other, whatever again ball park figures here.

                    Here are the charts for run 2:

                    Run2_Charge.jpg

                    Run2_Primary.jpg

                    And again I shot a little video of the run while in progress

                    https://files.secureserver.net/0sRDknJi7nbA78

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      So I went on to try out the CPD mod and I had a little trouble tuning it.

                      Basically I can get it to run on super high frequency but to run at low frequency I cannot get much charging done.

                      I used to run my other SS at high also but I was not too sure if it is really beneficial over not using it. I think what I might do is try some test runs with and without on my small garden battery since it will charge much faster. What I am not sure about is that it seems when you get into the super fast oscillation between the cap it is almost like a pass through situation and if you consider the voltage drop on the diode I'm not sure if it helps or not.

                      Honestly it has been quite awhile since I used this mod. It does do fantastic on smaller builds but I'm not sure on this one.

                      I made a video to show how I was testing out with the setup.

                      https://files.secureserver.net/0szg4KsJwZMslR

                      Patrick if you happen to see this post maybe you could make recommendations. Also on your system out in the garage how does your cap ocilate, I mean is it going slow, pop, pop, pop, or is it in the high frequency range past that?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                        So I went on to try out the CPD mod and I had a little trouble tuning it.

                        Basically I can get it to run on super high frequency but to run at low frequency I cannot get much charging done.

                        I used to run my other SS at high also but I was not too sure if it is really beneficial over not using it. I think what I might do is try some test runs with and without on my small garden battery since it will charge much faster. What I am not sure about is that it seems when you get into the super fast oscillation between the cap it is almost like a pass through situation and if you consider the voltage drop on the diode I'm not sure if it helps or not.

                        Honestly it has been quite awhile since I used this mod. It does do fantastic on smaller builds but I'm not sure on this one.

                        I made a video to show how I was testing out with the setup.

                        https://files.secureserver.net/0szg4KsJwZMslR

                        Patrick if you happen to see this post maybe you could make recommendations. Also on your system out in the garage how does your cap ocilate, I mean is it going slow, pop, pop, pop, or is it in the high frequency range past that?
                        I like the big electrolytics that was a coooool multi spike situation you had going there! it felt like a surfer riding in on a big wave of waves.

                        You went the wrong way. I'm sharing the answer here so the cpd stuff is in one place, may help others down the road to have it all in one place.
                        http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post15426
                        Kind Regards,
                        Patrick

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          New Trigger Update:

                          I have an update on the machine to share.

                          MCTrigger.jpg

                          I have put a mico controlled trigger on this machine, no trigger coil. I am using a 6v battery through a Mosfet to trigger the base and the Mosfet (ON/OFF) is controlled by my micro controller. I can adjust both the on time and the off time so it lets me tune things very nicely.

                          I am seeing great performance out of this setup so far. The trigger uses very little current even when I have it going about as fast as I would want it is using about 50ma from the 6v.

                          I originally tried using some crystal cells I have for the trigger source but they just were not putting out enough. I grabbed my little 6v and it works like a charm.

                          I could change voltage if I wanted to just by changing the battery, I like that it is a steady voltage and 6v works pretty good so I don’t see a reason to change but I could put 9v or 12v and adjust the resistance to accommodate.

                          The ON time controls your power winding saturation and cut off. I am using 3 one thousandths of a second. On the arduino the numbers are in thousandths of a second so 1000=1sec,, 250=4 times per sec and so on.

                          The off time affects the frequency, or how often the power coils fire.

                          What makes this work so nicely for me is I can give the base a steady voltage so there is no variable in each pulse to the base, I can control for how long it stays on which is similar to a magnet width on a wheel, and I can control how often it fires which is like your RPM on a wheel or magnet spacing (both really).

                          To tune it the best what we want is to have a long enough ON time to fill the power coils to saturation, and then abruptly cut them off so that the coil throws out the spike as it collapses. In the video below I use 3 one thousandths of a second.

                          This really is quite different because there is literally no trigger coil. For better or worse the trigger is out of the power coils field now so there is no induction on the trigger, no waste pumping up the trigger coil, it takes a bit of thinking about it to realize what all the implications are with this move to no wire but it does change a lot.

                          Anyway I did shoot a video to walk through a few setting of the frequency.

                          https://files.secureserver.net/0svPm33fsiMNzp

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Nice work! I'm going to have to put that arduino on my todo...


                            There’s a lot of good info on Arduino controlled SS SSG on the energetic forum and youtube. Much discussion on optimizing duty cycle relax coil time etc…
                            One of my favorite Arduino controlled SS SSG, people can say what they want about the UFOguy, but one of my favorite Arduino controlled demo’s is this series here:

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOwKkNs4lk

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyD0BM95kus

                            Much has to be taken into consideration when we take the control away from the coil, now you have the control so it’s up to you, front end, back end, coil etc... The hunt is on to find where the radiant is :-)
                            Kind Regards,
                            Patrick A.




                            Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                            New Trigger Update:

                            I have an update on the machine to share.

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]3507[/ATTACH]

                            I have put a mico controlled trigger on this machine, no trigger coil. I am using a 6v battery through a Mosfet to trigger the base and the Mosfet (ON/OFF) is controlled by my micro controller. I can adjust both the on time and the off time so it lets me tune things very nicely.

                            I am seeing great performance out of this setup so far. The trigger uses very little current even when I have it going about as fast as I would want it is using about 50ma from the 6v.

                            I originally tried using some crystal cells I have for the trigger source but they just were not putting out enough. I grabbed my little 6v and it works like a charm.

                            I could change voltage if I wanted to just by changing the battery, I like that it is a steady voltage and 6v works pretty good so I don’t see a reason to change but I could put 9v or 12v and adjust the resistance to accommodate.

                            The ON time controls your power winding saturation and cut off. I am using 3 one thousandths of a second. On the arduino the numbers are in thousandths of a second so 1000=1sec,, 250=4 times per sec and so on.

                            The off time affects the frequency, or how often the power coils fire.

                            What makes this work so nicely for me is I can give the base a steady voltage so there is no variable in each pulse to the base, I can control for how long it stays on which is similar to a magnet width on a wheel, and I can control how often it fires which is like your RPM on a wheel or magnet spacing (both really).

                            To tune it the best what we want is to have a long enough ON time to fill the power coils to saturation, and then abruptly cut them off so that the coil throws out the spike as it collapses. In the video below I use 3 one thousandths of a second.

                            This really is quite different because there is literally no trigger coil. For better or worse the trigger is out of the power coils field now so there is no induction on the trigger, no waste pumping up the trigger coil, it takes a bit of thinking about it to realize what all the implications are with this move to no wire but it does change a lot.

                            Anyway I did shoot a video to walk through a few setting of the frequency.

                            https://files.secureserver.net/0svPm33fsiMNzp

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              its all coil shorting just how you do it
                              guy

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi Guy,
                                Them's dangerous words matey. Yes, "it's all coil shorting" These are your words that stuck to me like glue over the years. The "just how you do it" part is HUGE though.
                                KR,
                                Patrick A

                                Originally posted by guyzzemf View Post
                                its all coil shorting just how you do it
                                guy

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