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  • #46
    Heh not all 50 worked out for the best though.

    I want to point you to an old thread where I first introduced these concepts. I went on to experiment with many different things around the basic idea and from that work I learned a lot more than I knew when I wrote it, I had just begun to pursue it. This was done on a wheel not SS but the method was basically the same. Really all I want you to see is the explanation of my idea, never mind all the comments and banter.

    I had really hoped that people would catch on too it but I don't think it was really understood what I was talking about and the post fell to it's grave as most do ;-)

    It's just easier point to this instead of hash it all over again.


    http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...?t=1110&page=2

    *EDIT*
    By the way the timing example in that post is not the same as in the other video. That is one of the other many variations I played with. I also learned that I could switch down to 5ms, anyway like I said this was when I started out with it not the final conclusions.
    Last edited by BobZilla; 05-18-2014, 09:13 AM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Greetings. Peace and happiness to you my friends. After reading the thread in a hurry I'm now going to barge in and list a few things I've learnt and a few "philosophical" ideas.

      - Attraction mode is much better than repulsion.
      - Make sure wheel bearings are in top shape, lubricated with the best oil available.
      - Don't attach anything extra that adds weight or inertia, keep the mechanical parts simple.
      - Keep iron objects like nails if using wooden frame away from magnets. Every little bit accumulates by the end.
      - Find a "electret" capacitor. I've observed that some motor running / starting capacitors that have served long tend to develop the effect.
      - Use germanium diodes where possible. Low voltage drop.
      - Use thick wires and keep them short.
      - Horizontal deflection transistors taken from old TV sets work nicely for me.
      - Shaping the output circuit is entirely up to you. If you intend to energize and have large batteries then a full wave rectifier bridge is better at the output instead of a single HV diode.

      Last but not least, I still think that the "trick" is all in those little, ignored neon bulbs! Can you say Energy from the Vacuum!?

      Happy building and cheers.

      Edit: I have a request, something I can not test on my own right now as I don't have a pancake coil. If you have a pancake coil, would you please check a "theory"? Place it facing the magnets somewhere and put a load across it, then observe if it slows down the wheel due to Lenz effect, if at all.
      Last edited by Quigon10101; 05-19-2014, 12:28 AM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Patience padawan,
        "So certain are you, you must feel the force all around." I sense the force is strong w/ you, but you must do the work. (light hearted :-)

        Thanks for the tips, I'll touch on things that work as I go.

        Kind Regards,
        Patrick A.


        Originally posted by Quigon10101 View Post
        Greetings. Peace and happiness to you my friends. After reading the thread in a hurry I'm now going to barge in and list a few things I've learnt and a few "philosophical" ideas.

        - Attraction mode is much better than repulsion.
        - Make sure wheel bearings are in top shape, lubricated with the best oil available.
        - Don't attach anything extra that adds weight or inertia, keep the mechanical parts simple.
        - Keep iron objects like nails if using wooden frame away from magnets. Every little bit accumulates by the end.
        - Find a "electret" capacitor. I've observed that some motor running / starting capacitors that have served long tend to develop the effect.
        - Use germanium diodes where possible. Low voltage drop.
        - Use thick wires and keep them short.
        - Horizontal deflection transistors taken from old TV sets work nicely for me.
        - Shaping the output circuit is entirely up to you. If you intend to energize and have large batteries then a full wave rectifier bridge is better at the output instead of a single HV diode.

        Last but not least, I still think that the "trick" is all in those little, ignored neon bulbs! Can you say Energy from the Vacuum!?

        Happy building and cheers.

        Edit: I have a request, something I can not test on my own right now as I don't have a pancake coil. If you have a pancake coil, would you please check a "theory"? Place it facing the magnets somewhere and put a load across it, then observe if it slows down the wheel due to Lenz effect, if at all.

        Comment


        • #49
          It was a long weekend and I did not get much accomplished - in the way of progress.

          Here is my fail: (vid is still processing - check back, gotta go...)



          Lucky to have craigs list here and good people wanting to unload things...
          Kind Regards,
          Patrick A.

          Comment


          • #50
            Patrick
            we both herd clicking it was Allen R that called it [ a lose magnet] good call
            guy

            what going on with the flat air coil ,i see it going to a bread board?????????

            Comment


            • #51
              You're right Guy - sorry Allen, I claim age and lack of sleep :-)

              Guy... coil... :-) pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I need to rewind that coil to copy you again as is, it only has 3volts! need the C shape.

              Got the 8-TGB all plugged in now. Pushing toyota bat to 16 volts @ 573+/-mA, nice! I'm still at two spikes per magnet pass, need to re-adjust the coil further away. Also, the amp draw bumps around a bit. need to double check magnet spacing and/or break out the old "gauss meter" a-la yahoo group. and find the bad boy magnet - put him on the bench and put in a team player.

              Kind Regards,
              Patrick A.

              Originally posted by guyzzemf View Post
              Patrick
              we both herd clicking it was Allen R that called it [ a lose magnet] good call
              guy

              what going on with the flat air coil ,i see it going to a bread board?????????

              Comment


              • #52
                That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
                I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
                Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
                Kind Regards,
                Patrick

                Comment


                • #53
                  Hi Patrick , everyone. Thanks. Totally jealousy over the straight and true wheel you have there. the wood wheel looks good. I suggest cutting the wood to fit the inner diameter of the wheel and so it has to press in. Lie it down on a known flat surface then use screws to secur it. Perhaps that will help true it easier.

                  Did I calculate 71ma amp draw on the input? Is that normally where you run your input at? Just curious as I run mine at 120 and 220~ma there are two very prominant spots there on my wheel. Sounds lime I get the new wheel whipped up. My wheel is somewhere between junkpile and not nearly close enoufh to the smooth one you show later. This new one must be lest redneck engineer and more scotty engineer. Im getting excited to see the big eight running!

                  Thanks to everyone. If Im not on for a bit it doesnt mean I dont see the posts. Ihave something I would like to see you try later when you get a chance. It has to do with backpopping through a gen coil back the run battery. I guess you could do it to a second battery. The gen coil will be placed in a position around the wheel so when the backpop event happenes the wheel gets a boost from the extra coil and the recieving battery still gets the charge. I have an old video that shows this being done and the effect is interesting. You see way higher voltages. I was using a dump switch i made that the turning wheel activated during motor off time. That setup didnt seem to take away from recover. It did add high voltage that ran all through the circuit plus it increased rotor speed. I will place it back on youtube and give you access to it if and when you might be interested. I do not want to distract you.

                  Thanks
                  al
                  Originally posted by min2oly View Post
                  That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
                  I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
                  Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
                  Kind Regards,
                  Patrick
                  Last edited by Allen R.; 05-19-2014, 10:39 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by min2oly View Post
                    That was it, got it down to one spike/magnet. I just had to pull the coil away from the wheel a tiny bit...
                    I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V then I'll take it down to 12.5 overnight and start out fresh in the AM. This battery might actually be a very good candidate for many experiments. I'll put it through a few runs before deciding to purchase the garden bat.
                    Now, any suggestions on quick-n-dirty measure of IN vs OUT? Anyone?
                    Kind Regards,
                    Patrick
                    Hey Patrick,

                    I intended to write up a long explanation of a quick way to measure COP, but hey you know how life gets in the way

                    Anyway, the short version is that it's based on JB's method and goes something like this:

                    1. Charge battery up to 15.3v and note draw current from primary with analog meter.
                    2. Discharge secondary battery for 1 hour at the same rate as primary draw from step 1. Helps if you have a CBA unit or similar so you can dial in the draw current.
                    3. Recharge secondary again to 15.3v. Note minutes taken to recharge.

                    To calculate COP, divide 60 by minutes from step 3 for the electrical COP.
                    For the total COP add the mechanical energy from the wheel as well.

                    let me know how it works out for you.

                    John K.

                    Edit: Make sure your primary battery is fully charged before starting.
                    Last edited by John_Koorn; 05-20-2014, 03:46 AM. Reason: Added info

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by min2oly View Post
                      I'm going to see if I can get it to 16.5V
                      Patrick
                      Friend if you happen to have in your possession a hydrometer for checking batteries I highly recommend that you check the specific gravity of the electrolytes in each cell of that battery. I think 12.5 sp. g. would be a good minimum limit.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Hi Allen,
                        I have to say, I can do all the justification of a wobble wheel still getting 1:1 and I can tune it just fine blah blah blah... This straight wheel makes all the difference in being able to tune EASILY.

                        Any "distraction" someone brings up in this thread PALES in comparison to the distractions going on in my own head 24/7.

                        I am interested in your dump switch and timing mechanism. Post it whenever it's convenient for you - LMK. I can take good notes for when I give it a go here.
                        Thanks!
                        Patrick A.


                        Originally posted by Allen R. View Post
                        Hi Patrick , everyone. Thanks. Totally jealousy over the straight and true wheel you have there. the wood wheel looks good. I suggest cutting the wood to fit the inner diameter of the wheel and so it has to press in. Lie it down on a known flat surface then use screws to secur it. Perhaps that will help true it easier.

                        Did I calculate 71ma amp draw on the input? Is that normally where you run your input at? Just curious as I run mine at 120 and 220~ma there are two very prominant spots there on my wheel. Sounds lime I get the new wheel whipped up. My wheel is somewhere between junkpile and not nearly close enoufh to the smooth one you show later. This new one must be lest redneck engineer and more scotty engineer. Im getting excited to see the big eight running!

                        Thanks to everyone. If Im not on for a bit it doesnt mean I dont see the posts. Ihave something I would like to see you try later when you get a chance. It has to do with backpopping through a gen coil back the run battery. I guess you could do it to a second battery. The gen coil will be placed in a position around the wheel so when the backpop event happenes the wheel gets a boost from the extra coil and the recieving battery still gets the charge. I have an old video that shows this being done and the effect is interesting. You see way higher voltages. I was using a dump switch i made that the turning wheel activated during motor off time. That setup didnt seem to take away from recover. It did add high voltage that ran all through the circuit plus it increased rotor speed. I will place it back on youtube and give you access to it if and when you might be interested. I do not want to distract you.

                        Thanks
                        al

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Hydrometer is a very good idea to check on each individual cell:
                          this is a good quick read to have bookmarked:
                          http://support.rollsbattery.com/supp...uring-specific


                          "The following shows the approximate state of charge at various specific gravities at 77F / 25C.

                          Charged Specific Gravity
                          100% 1.265-1.275
                          75% 1.225-1.235
                          50% 1.190-1.200
                          25% 1.155-1.165
                          0% 1.120-1.130"

                          Thanks for bringing that up...




                          Originally posted by Quigon10101 View Post
                          Friend if you happen to have in your possession a hydrometer for checking batteries I highly recommend that you check the specific gravity of the electrolytes in each cell of that battery. I think 12.5 sp. g. would be a good minimum limit.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Hi John,
                            Thanks! this beats a complete run down/discharge, now Patrick can get some sleep

                            What are your thoughts about leaving the amp meter inline for the whole hour? I ask because my draw increases when I shunt the meter. And/or what are your thoughts about using a clamp meter to mark the draw. I don't have one, just some of the ideas crawling around my head...

                            Thanks again,
                            Patrick A.



                            Originally posted by John_Koorn View Post
                            Hey Patrick,

                            I intended to write up a long explanation of a quick way to measure COP, but hey you know how life gets in the way

                            Anyway, the short version is that it's based on JB's method and goes something like this:

                            1. Charge battery up to 15.3v and note draw current from primary with analog meter.
                            2. Discharge secondary battery for 1 hour at the same rate as primary draw from step 1. Helps if you have a CBA unit or similar so you can dial in the draw current.
                            3. Recharge secondary again to 15.3v. Note minutes taken to recharge.

                            To calculate COP, divide 60 by minutes from step 3 for the electrical COP.
                            For the total COP add the mechanical energy from the wheel as well.

                            let me know how it works out for you.

                            John K.

                            Edit: Make sure your primary battery is fully charged before starting.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Something to watch w/ that afternoon Sandwich...


                              I think it was Steven Cerovec?
                              Anyway, one of the reasons I keep coming back to these forums is because there are always so many good people w/ great ideas and willing to share. It keeps me motivated.
                              Kind Regards to all,
                              Patrick A.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                steven crogan??? that is how i ck a coil strength mine has a weak spring in it
                                measuring input has allways been a hard thing to be sure of ,i use a many different ways we all know and if thay are close to each other
                                its good i think dad hav did a vid to show a very good way
                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YeF...3lTJIrHm5FLLPA

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