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SSG Where the rubber hits the road

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  • #31
    Hi all ,
    i guess its time to chime in here ,
    ive been following your build patrick so thanks for all the great vids and info ,if i have done everything right i should have my wheel running sometime this weekend, i purchaced an sg 8 board from Teslagenx also along with the standard 130 ft coil and mags
    Patrick did u get your magnets form Teslagenx as well and if you did were they have the double sided sticy backing on them?.........i wanted to know because i bought those ones with the double sided sticky tape and was wondering if along with wrapping the mags with tape after setting them if i have to glue them to the wheel as well for safety...thanx in advance cheers

    Comment


    • #32
      patrikas,

      no need for gluing the tape is very strong....

      Tom C


      experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

      Comment


      • #33
        Hi Nofear. I wrote a huge post but decided to keep it short out of respect for Patrick since he gave us the go ahead to post. Something about the magnets interaction with the coil adds something to the event. It is not simple generator action as my solid state rig is 10 circuit and will charge much faster. It will not desulfate as well as my wheel. The 10 circuit solid state is built like youtube user bxx49er's design. I have used a standard ssg in solidstate and it doesn't do as well either (for me). There is a big difference in what is happening in the wheel IMO. It is more than simply switching off and on. No , I don't believe slowing the solidstate's frequency will make any difference although it would be an interesting and worthy project.

        If you have not built a large wheel unit 16-26 inch then I would suggest that you try it.

        I don't know if that helps but in my experience it is what works for me.

        One more thing I would like to add. Have you seen many people talk about 1:1 solidstate charging? I haven't. They may be doing that but they are not saying much. They always calculate their wheel. Just a thought.

        Patrick is far more experienced than I am. His opinion is probably closer to right than my facts.


        al

        Originally posted by Nofear View Post
        "...For some reason I always come back to a wheel when it comes to desulphating. I cannot seem to achieve the same results with a solid state..."
        Hi Allen,
        That is an interesting comment. Any idea why that is? The only difference for the coil is that in a solid state circuit the frequency of interruption happens more often. Would you be able to achieve the same result if your solid state is tune such as the triggering is close to the frequency of your wheel? Does that make any sense to you?
        Please pm me if you have a comment/answer, I think it's impolite to highjack Patrick's thread

        Thanks,
        NoFear.
        Last edited by Allen R.; 05-15-2014, 11:01 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Ditto Allenr!

          John K.

          Comment


          • #35
            Nice thread Patrick, thanks for sharing.

            One more thing I would like to add. Have you seen many people talk about 1:1 solidstate charging? I haven't. They may be doing that but they are not saying much. They always calculate their wheel. Just a thought.
            I have done 1 to 1 on a SS but it is much harder to achieve. The main reason IMHO is because think about your base,, on the wheel you get the current almost free because of the stored energy in the wheel momentum. Yes it takes energy to spin the wheel but once running and tuned properly it is far less than driving the base directly from the primary.

            One way to improve a SS is to use a cap dumper because if you time it right you get additional diPoles to harvest on between the cap and the charge battery, a double dip.

            Comment


            • #36
              Definite YES on adding the cap dump for better desulfation.


              Now... "if you time it right"?
              Wow, I know the timing changes the equation on the wheel as shown here:

              I never experimented w/ any LONG runs to prove whether or not there is an added charging benefit, however, the timing appears to add a good punch there.

              Bob, this is the first time I've heard anyone mention this on SS. I'm adding this to my long list of things to do.
              Thanks,
              Patrick A.



              Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
              Nice thread Patrick, thanks for sharing.



              I have done 1 to 1 on a SS but it is much harder to achieve. The main reason IMHO is because think about your base,, on the wheel you get the current almost free because of the stored energy in the wheel momentum. Yes it takes energy to spin the wheel but once running and tuned properly it is far less than driving the base directly from the primary.

              One way to improve a SS is to use a cap dumper because if you time it right you get additional diPoles to harvest on between the cap and the charge battery, a double dip.

              Comment


              • #37
                Patrick I think you of all people can appreciate what I am about to show because you are a solid state guy and the first to discover gen mode. This is not what i was referring too exactly in my previous comment but it is related. I made this video quite some time ago and I have progressed beyond what I knew then.

                The basic principals are here though, this was all about taking advantage of cap diPoles. It's a bit long but watch it through because I go over 3 modes which expand upon each other, it was my progression so I thought it should be shown how I had arrived at the last mode.

                Enjoy----Bob

                https://files.secureserver.net/0sxxzNfYb5pgQL

                Comment


                • #38
                  Hi Bobzilla. I like this. Most people beat you up when they find out you see caps as anything but a loss in the system. I agree with you.
                  because if you time it right you get additional diPoles to harvest on between the cap and the charge battery, a double dip.
                  Thanks for sharing. Most people don't post about 1:1 on the SS. The switching on the SS runs at the speed of circuit regulation and the speed of the wheel ssg runs at magnet pass speed and dwell (also regulated but magnet time / speed dependent) . An SS has no magnets and no core material to interact depending on the setup. My SS is an aircore setup. My studies with it are sadly lacking in comparison to my wheel ssg experience.
                  Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                  Nice thread Patrick, thanks for sharing.
                  I have done 1 to 1 on a SS but it is much harder to achieve. The main reason IMHO is because think about your base,, on the wheel you get the current almost free because of the stored energy in the wheel momentum. Yes it takes energy to spin the wheel but once running and tuned properly it is far less than driving the base directly from the primary.

                  One way to improve a SS is to use a cap dumper because if you time it right you get additional diPoles to harvest on between the cap and the charge battery, a double dip.
                  Everyone , I am enjoying this thread immensely. It has my vote as the best thread in a while. I usually am more of a lurker than a poster so that should tell you something. Thanks to everyone for their input and Patrick for allowing all the discussion!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hey Bobzilla. Thanks for sharing this video! I got to get off here and work some today but I will definitely watch it later.

                    Thanks again.
                    al
                    Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                    Patrick I think you of all people can appreciate what I am about to show because you are a solid state guy and the first to discover gen mode. This is not what i was referring too exactly in my previous comment but it is related. I made this video quite some time ago and I have progressed beyond what I knew then.

                    The basic principals are here though, this was all about taking advantage of cap diPoles. It's a bit long but watch it through because I go over 3 modes which expand upon each other, it was my progression so I thought it should be shown how I had arrived at the last mode.

                    Enjoy----Bob

                    https://files.secureserver.net/0sxxzNfYb5pgQL

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Allen, Patrick..Bob.
                      I have built wheels and few SS circuit and still can't find my desulfation test results very conclusive. I find that studying "desulfating batteries" very tricky. For the simple reason that I can't find a bunch of batteries that have degraded in exactly the same fashion or that have the same level of sulfation. Any comparative study trying to find which method is best will have questionable results/conclusions, so instead the results are somewhat anecdotal.
                      And what keep the confusion alive is I have read or heard people, like Peter Lindeman saying that impulses of an inductive nature are better suited for dissulfation, whereas impulses of a capacitive nature are better at charging batteries.
                      In addition to that, and related to using cap dumps for dissulfation, it begs the question that if cap dump is a preferred way to smashing way the sulfation then why is a Bedini oscillator circuit necessary? Can't the caps be charged with a regular power supply and then dumped on a battery?
                      All these are interesting tests, but what bothers me is the lack of consistency in "bad" batteries. So I end up not doing anything
                      NoFear
                      Last edited by Nofear; 05-16-2014, 07:38 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Bob,
                        That's nice! I'll have to digest it some more. you have a very good grasp w/ manipulating these ckts. I like the sound those dumps make, reminds me of the mother ship on close encounters of the 3rd kind. I wonder if those spikes need to get rectified before heading back to the primary? I wonder if the primary is fighting w/ them? Just off the cuff thoughts. Did you happen to time how much longer of a run time you got out of the primary vs w/o the mod?
                        Thanks for sharing this,
                        Patrick A.

                        Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                        Patrick I think you of all people can appreciate what I am about to show because you are a solid state guy and the first to discover gen mode. This is not what i was referring too exactly in my previous comment but it is related. I made this video quite some time ago and I have progressed beyond what I knew then.

                        The basic principals are here though, this was all about taking advantage of cap diPoles. It's a bit long but watch it through because I go over 3 modes which expand upon each other, it was my progression so I thought it should be shown how I had arrived at the last mode.

                        Enjoy----Bob

                        https://files.secureserver.net/0sxxzNfYb5pgQL

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          That's gotta be a bit frustrating. Can I ask, do you find that your batteries are desulfating at all? I ask because I'm wondering if your quandary is with whether or not the batteries are desulfating at all, or just w/ which method works best...

                          to answer your question specifically about whether or not the oscillator is necessary for desulfation, No, it is not necessary. you can fill a cap up to the same levels w/ any method you can think of and dump it to your battery to obtain desulfation. Here is a very simple method using those holes in the wall:


                          "They" would love it if you did nothing.
                          Kind Regards,
                          Patrick A.


                          Originally posted by Nofear View Post
                          Allen, Patrick..Bob.
                          I have built wheels and few SS circuit and still can't find my desulfation test results very conclusive. I find that studying "desulfating batteries" very tricky. For the simple reason that I can't find a bunch of batteries that have degraded in exactly the same fashion or that have the same level of sulfation. Any comparative study trying to find which method is best will have questionable results/conclusions, so instead the results are somewhat anecdotal.
                          And what keep the confusion alive is I have read or heard people, like Peter Lindeman saying that impulses of an inductive nature are better suited for dissulfation, whereas impulses of a capacitive nature are better at charging batteries.
                          In addition to that, and related to using cap dumps for dissulfation, it begs the question that if cap dump is a preferred way to smashing way the sulfation then why is a Bedini oscillator circuit necessary? Can't the caps be charged with a regular power supply and then dumped on a battery?
                          All these are interesting tests, but what bothers me is the lack of consistency in "bad" batteries. So I end up not doing anything
                          NoFear

                          PS - how about good batteries, have you tried doing these tests w/ good batteries...(rhetorical)
                          Last edited by min2oly; 05-17-2014, 08:38 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Bob,
                            That's nice! I'll have to digest it some more. you have a very good grasp w/ manipulating these ckts. I like the sound those dumps make, reminds me of the mother ship on close encounters of the 3rd kind. I wonder if those spikes need to get rectified before heading back to the primary? I wonder if the primary is fighting w/ them? Just off the cuff thoughts. Did you happen to time how much longer of a run time you got out of the primary vs w/o the mod?
                            Thanks for sharing this,
                            Patrick A.
                            Glad you liked it Patrick. Yea it does sound cool huh. If I tune the radio slightly different you really hear the cap whining up and down and it gets crazy. That system has been shelved for quite some time now. I was playing with that just before I built my 2 coil wheel and once I got that running it took all of my attention.

                            There was a great improvement between using that method and not using it. There are a lot of variables to play with in that system. I tried changing the caps with larger and smaller capacity, the batteries themselves larger/smaller, the dump pattern. I actually tested at least 50 different patterns to explore different aspects but the one in the video was simple enough for others to understand what I was doing so I used that. It was pretty simple compared to some of the stuff I was doing. Since I am using a micro controller it is all easily changed with programing. I might have to break that system back out and do a post with some different configurations.

                            I had thought about rectifying back to the primary but the problem is there is juice running both ways so cutting off one direction will stop the machine. The caps seem to do ok with it, I use them as a sort of buffer ahead of the primary. They have a much different impedance than the battery does and that helps. Anyway I don't want to hijack your thread. I can make my own to discuss this thing.

                            NoFear,
                            I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
                            Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

                            On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

                            My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                              NoFear,
                              I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
                              Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

                              On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

                              My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.
                              Ditto to Bob's method.

                              Pats circuit will also work very nicely as the voltage will rise to what is necessary (up to 115v) to move the sulfate ions back into the solution and off the plates. I use a 25uf cap though (roughly 1 amp). Al

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi Bob,
                                this discovery is most definitely deserving of it's own thread. Thanks so much for sharing it here though, feel free to talk more on it as you see fit and/or anything else that comes to mind... Nice work! It can be very exhausting, most people find it difficult to do even 10 good solid runs let alone all the work everyone is posting on this forum, and 50 different patterns even. Your mind must run free as the wind, The mother of innovation...
                                Kind Regards,
                                Patrick A.



                                Originally posted by BobZilla View Post
                                Glad you liked it Patrick. Yea it does sound cool huh. If I tune the radio slightly different you really hear the cap whining up and down and it gets crazy. That system has been shelved for quite some time now. I was playing with that just before I built my 2 coil wheel and once I got that running it took all of my attention.

                                There was a great improvement between using that method and not using it. There are a lot of variables to play with in that system. I tried changing the caps with larger and smaller capacity, the batteries themselves larger/smaller, the dump pattern. I actually tested at least 50 different patterns to explore different aspects but the one in the video was simple enough for others to understand what I was doing so I used that. It was pretty simple compared to some of the stuff I was doing. Since I am using a micro controller it is all easily changed with programing. I might have to break that system back out and do a post with some different configurations.

                                I had thought about rectifying back to the primary but the problem is there is juice running both ways so cutting off one direction will stop the machine. The caps seem to do ok with it, I use them as a sort of buffer ahead of the primary. They have a much different impedance than the battery does and that helps. Anyway I don't want to hijack your thread. I can make my own to discuss this thing.

                                NoFear,
                                I agree with all that Patrick said and showed.
                                Personally I always desulphate with Radiant on salvage batteries.I'm sure you have seen my other posts on this subject as there have been many.

                                On a lightly sulphated battery cap dumps can work just fine. It really depends on what you want the battery for, a pos or a neg. If you intend to use it as a primary on your machines than cap dump it so it can run as a primary, if you only use it for storage to run loads than keep it radiant.

                                My method for badly neglected salvage batteries is to always use radiant until the battery starts to behave normally for the most part. Then I will switch to cap dump if I want it to be a primary.

                                Comment

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