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Bedini SG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge

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  • Bedini SG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge

    Here is the circuit of the Bedini SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge.
    565558.jpg
    Last edited by John_Koorn; 07-28-2012, 12:31 AM.

  • #2
    Hi John K,

    What are the specs on the coil? Would you use a coil similar to the ssg but with an extra 23 gauge wind for the secondary? So a coil with one 450' wind of 26 gauge, and two 450' winds of 23 gauge wire?

    thanks,

    Robert

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Robert Darrah View Post
      Hi John K,

      What are the specs on the coil? Would you use a coil similar to the ssg but with an extra 23 gauge wind for the secondary? So a coil with one 450' wind of 26 gauge, and two 450' winds of 23 gauge wire?

      thanks,

      Robert
      Hi Robert,

      It depends on the size of your machine and the batteries you want to charge. You could use the wires you mentioned for a small machine, or you could use 3 x 130' of AWG#18 for a larger one. This is something you should experiment with.


      John K.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Johnk,

        I've ben working with a cap discharger and using IR switching.
        At the moment it is running with one switch keeping the trigger circuit on for about 85% of the time and a 2nd sw to pulse the run batt once per rev. 16" bike wheel.

        It looks decent. I'll probobly add an isolated gen coil and combine the output to the cap and switch the cap into the run batt 2 times per rev.

        My cap voltage at present is about 30v with a 12v run batt.

        The cap discharge will do a nice job of charging a batt. I'm not using a diode off the collector.

        bro d

        Comment


        • #5
          Here John and I are Showing the Alum battery on a monopole and the fast charge rate and impedience change. The alum batteries charged to a point within 3 minutes that the capacitive dump halted and charged the batteries up to a little over 15v in a fast time. John and I explain this in the video. Thanks for watching.


          Chuck Hupp

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi,

            I built one of the capacitive discharge monopoles according to the circuit posted on this thread. I tried to get everything as close as I could to the original specs. The exceptions were I couldn't find a 2N3584 transistor so substituted with an MJE15032. For the base resistor I had to remove the 680 ohm one and ended up at 20 ohms for best tuning.

            I used a 26" bike wheel for the rotor with 18 magnets in standard arrangement. The coils is a non-litzed 3 filar, all 18 gauge 130' long. Here are a couple of pics:

            Cap discharge monopole.jpgBoard for cap discharge.jpg

            This hot pink girl runs at 254 rpms, is drawing 1.26 amps from the primary and is charging .253 into the charge battery. I charged up a 3.5 ah sla battery in about 6 hours just to see what it would do, and I'll next try a lawn and garden battery to see if it's close to the c20 rating, which I expect it should be given the results from the 3.5 ah battery.

            Here are a few notes for anyone building something similar. I put a panel meter on the charging side but wasn't seeing any fluctuations, only a steady current flow. Ditto with the dmm. So I started troubleshooting it to see if it was working right. I started by putting the scope probe on pin 3 for the 555 timer and the ground on the neg of the primary battery. This gave me a nice square wave so I knew the timer was operating like it should and sending a square wave to trigger the opto.

            Next I put the probe on the base of the MJE15032 and the ground on the charging positive to check the signal to the base, and I was getting a square wave with rounded corners, so I knew the opto was firing and sending a signal to the MJE15032. This was the transistor I suspected in case there was a problem, because it was a replacement for the original.

            So now I've got a trigger to the MJE and next I checked for a trigger to the gate of the SCR. I put the probe on the gate and the ground on the charging negative and again I've got a signal.

            So far so good, as I've got a trigger to the SCR. Next I put the probe on the cathode and ground on charging negative to see if the SCR is firing. The wave I got was a spiky little thing that wasn't what I expected, just little short spikes at even intervals. The voltage was a lot lower than I was expecting and it was just a vertical spike, so really fast. It looked like the cap was firing at regular intervals but I wasn't getting the kind of wave I thought I would get.

            I was expecting a wave more like I got from the ss kit I got from rcharge, a much longer and rounded wave as the cap charges, but the cap on this build is only a 3.3uf one, as compared to the 560uf cap on the kit, so I thought that might account for the difference in wave forms.

            I then took a 560uf cap and put it in parallel with the 3.3uf and then I started to see more what I expected:

            Probe on cathode gr on ch neg with 560 cap.jpg

            I think at this point I started to see some fluctuations on the panel meter. Another difference between my rcharge kit and this build is that the resistor on this build that times the intervals between pulses is 51k, and on the rcharge kit it's a pot that goes up to 2M.

            The higher the resistance for that resistor means the longer it takes for the timer to fire the opto. This means the cap is charged for a longer amount of time, and charges to a higher voltage before discharging. You can see this in the next wave where I increased the timing resistor from 51k to 271k and had the 560uf cap in parallel:

            271k resistor with 560 cap.jpg

            So what I've got now is stair step charging. Cool. What is happening in this wave is the coil is getting 10 magnet passes before the cap discharges, and you can see the 10 steps in the wave where the cap is being charged. Each pulse from the coil charges the cap a little higher. Really cool. At this point I'm also getting much larger and slower fluctuations in the panel meter and everything is looking ok.

            What I'd learned, and am passing on to anyone that is building this for the first time, is that the 3.3uf cap is small and the 51k resistor is fast, so you get a lot of quick, relatively low voltage discharges from the cap that won't show up on the panel meter or a digital meter, and yet the cap is discharging like it should. If you're not sure your build is discharging like it should, then you can increase the timing resistor and cap size like I did and see the cap discharging on a panel meter for visual verification.

            This is a fun little circuit to build and a good intro to the discharging the cap part of the technology. It's also a good basic system for experimenting with changing the timing resistor and size of the cap, so you can learn what the effects will be on the charging battery.

            Another observation I wanted to make is that with a ceramic magnet my compass will deflect slightly to over a foot from the magnet. I've got a steel toggle switch about 6" from the magnets on this build, and the alligator clips on the battery are probably in range of the magnets also, so while the effect is probably slight, this isn't going to help my cop any. FYI.

            Cheers,

            Robert

            Comment


            • #7
              Robert,


              Great build thanks for sharing, looking forward to your test results.
              Tom C


              experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by John_Koorn View Post
                Here is the circuit of the Bedini SSG Monopole with Capacitor Discharge.
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]15[/ATTACH]
                I want to make a solid state version of this. One question though.

                Isn't there a spike on the primary coil? What protects the transistor on the primary coil?

                In all the ssg circuits I have seen all the power coils have an output to a battery with a neon lamp for protection/alerting.
                Last edited by bluestix; 11-25-2012, 12:23 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bluestix View Post
                  I want to make a solid state version of this. One question though.

                  Isn't there a spike on the primary coil? What protects the transistor on the primary coil?

                  In all the ssg circuits I have seen all the power coils have an output to a battery with a neon lamp for protection/alerting.

                  the full monopole is a different beast than the SG you can build it just like it is designed.
                  Tom C


                  experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                    the full monopole is a different beast than the SG you can build it just like it is designed.
                    Tom C
                    How many output coils can you make per input coil?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi bluestix,

                      My knowledge of electronics is pretty minimal, but let me see what I can do. In an ssg circuit both sides are connected electrically, which is not the case with this circuit. That's the beauty of the opto; it can connect the 2 circuits so the one can affect the other, but it doesn't use an electrical connection between the 2 circuits. The danger with the ssg is that if the charging battery gets disconnected, then when the field collapses the spike can't get to the charging battery so the voltage builds up, and since there is a circuit to the primary battery through the transistor, the voltage will build up enough to punch through the transistor to get to the primary.

                      So with this circuit if the charging battery gets disconnected it doesn't really change anything on the primary side, at least as far as I can tell, since they are not electrically connected. I think if the secondary is disconnected the timer will continue to fire the opto like normal, but without a closed circuit to the charging battery nothing will happen on the charging side. And of course if a clip comes off the primary then the machine just stops, so no danger there.

                      Robert
                      Last edited by Robert Darrah; 11-25-2012, 07:58 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        you will have better luck building solid state SG then trying to replicate the full monopole patent in solid state. I have seen 8 filar solid state models. with cap dump and bridge. how would you change the SG to run a bridge on the output?

                        Tom C


                        experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi TomC

                          What is a "Full mono pole"?

                          Why do you need to rectify the output to the cap, the cap can be charged directly?

                          More info please !

                          Theunis
                          Last edited by Prinsloo; 11-25-2012, 11:48 PM.
                          Hey !
                          WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE PORTION OF SOLAR ENERGY THAT WAS ALLOCATED TO YOU TODAY? !
                          JUST THINK ABOUT IT . . .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tom C View Post
                            you will have better luck building solid state SG then trying to replicate the full monopole patent in solid state. I have seen 8 filar solid state models. with cap dump and bridge. how would you change the SG to run a bridge on the output?

                            Tom C
                            I still don't see how the primary coil on the SG is any different then the primary coils on an SSG. If a spike forms in the primary coil of an SSG circuit then the spike has to be discharged to a battery to prevent damage to the neon and transistor.

                            What is different about the primary of the SG that it isn't at risk of damage from the spike? Is it dissipated through the secondary?

                            I am going to build an 8 filar solid state with cap dump. I already have an 8 filar coil running with an 8 circuit SSG board. It works pretty well.

                            I am wondering how to modify it to include cap dump.

                            Can I put a bridge rectifier in place of the secondary battery?

                            I was thinking about only using four of the coils as power coils and hooking the other four up to the bridge rectifier like in the SG circuit posted in this thread. What about the power coils though? They still need to be connected to a secondary of some kind right?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Robert Darrah View Post
                              Hi bluestix,

                              In an ssg circuit both sides are connected electrically, which is not the case with this circuit. That's the beauty of the opto; it can connect the 2 circuits so the one can affect the other, but it doesn't use an electrical connection between the 2 circuits. The danger with the ssg is that if the charging battery gets disconnected, then when the field collapses the spike can't get to the charging battery so the voltage builds up, and since there is a circuit to the primary battery through the transistor, the voltage will build up enough to punch through the transistor to get to the primary.

                              Robert
                              In the posted diagram I am not concerned with any of the secondary charging circuit. Only the primary coil and transistor connected to the primary battery. In an SSG circuit this would be the coil developing the spike and routing it to a secondary battery. I don't understand what is different about the primary coil of the SG circuit. Does it not develop a spike?

                              Comment

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