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  • Common Ground Switch(Generator Mode) & Adding a Generator Coil - Observations

    A. After some guidance and clarifications from Teslagenx, I wired in a SPDT switch with the 8 transistor board and Charge battery connections. This results in a switchable charging mode. First mode is the normal SSG output configuration on the Charge battery. Selecting the 2nd mode connects the Charge battery in a common ground configuration and adds a diode in that side of the circuit..... as described in the Advanced Book.

    Observations:
    1.) Be sure to take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly, before installing the wiring and SPDT switch.
    2.) My wheel RPM decreased about 100 RPM when switched from SSG to Common Ground charging mode; 270 -> 170.
    3.) Amp meter on Run Battery showed 0.5 increase draw.
    4.) Charge voltage increases about 1 - 2 volts.
    5.) Charge battery charges faster, which is a good trade-off for the small increase in running amperage.

    B. I made the Low-Drag generator coil, following the recommendations in the Advanced book, with two modifications.
    Observations:
    1.) Added about 10 ft to each winding, to add a few more turns on the coil and compensate for wire shortening during the twisting process, for a total length of 140ft.
    2.) Added 2 additional windings for a total of 12.
    3.) Added an additional 1 inch to center core making it 2.5 inches wide. This is for future experiments to attain better performance.
    4.) If you are twisting the coil wire without help, recommend you find a grassy area to layout wire so as not to scuff the thin coating. Then locate center of the wire's length and bend it around a small rod driven in the ground. Twist each half separately. While there may be a 1 -2 inch segment that is not tightly twisted, it can be hand twisted during the winding of the coil,to tighten that small wire length. If the wire is not sufficiently twisted, it will be bigger in diameter, which can affect how much get wrapped on the spool. The twisted wires made a very stiff cable.
    5.) Winding the stiff, twisted wire is like winding solid copper metal. It is fatiguing to the wrists and fingers. It will require several sessions to complete.
    6.) Connecting the individual windings in series is necessary to get the most voltage. requires a volt/continuity meter to locate the bottom end of each winding. Find some good wire connectors that will grip each cleaned wire end. With the help/experience of fellow-contributors Aaron Murakami and James McDonald, serializing the windings were successfully completed.
    7.) Mounting the coil is important. Mount it as close to the wheel as possible to get the highest voltage. Rotate the wheel slowly to find the minimum distance where the highest magnet/wheel bobble will not touch the coil and add 1/16 inch gap.
    8.) Mount it so it does not come loose, when the wheel is turning. I drilled a hole in the rods that extended below the coil and pinned it to an anchored cross member with a woodscrew.
    9.) The output initial thru a bridge rectifier was disappointing; only 7 volts and 55 milliamps. With not enough wheel RPM (130 RPM with generator next to magnets) and lots of drag from the wide coil core, the performance was poor.
    10.) To improve RPM, I reduced the gap on the power coil to about 1/16 inch and loosened the wheel bearings, adding and a film of STP (oil additive) to both bearings.
    11.) Added a stack of 2 small Neo magnets super glued to each side of the rim, in between ceramic. Best voltage attained with South side facing out. They are far enough away from the coil core, facing slightly sideways. No adverse effects on the power coil were seen. While the power coil sees only a North magnetic field, the generator coil sees an alternating North field, then a South field across its wider core.
    12.) Wheel speed without generator coil attached and running in SSG mode was 275 RPM.
    13.) Wheel speed with generator attached is now 175.
    14.) Voltage increased to 11.8 and current increased to 250 milliamps thru bridge rectifier. This accessory has potentially useful power now.......
    15.) No generator testing to date in Common Ground mode.

    Anyone getting better low-drag generator performance?? Any SSG self-running potential being explored with this surplus power??

    I will be further tuning the generator output. Also planning to create a PMH-design generator, to see if the low-Lenzing character will improve the SSG Wheel speed and PMH generator output. See MrAngusWangus channel on You tube, for additional description/characteristics. More on that to come.
    Last edited by jd_zinke@hotmail.com; 08-04-2015, 12:53 PM.

  • #2
    Hi, thanks for sharing all those details.

    To go from 275 to 175 rpm, your gen coil must be almost touching the coil?

    I don't recall the voltage off hand that the gen coil produces on the model that Peter demonstrated, but I think it might have been around 20 volts.

    One area that I want to explore more is shorting the coil at the right time. Can easily get over 100 volts. Peter and I did a few tests with that and thati s not a new concept. We didn't include that in the book because the books are really to showcase John's work specifically and not our own.
    Aaron Murakami





    You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

    Comment


    • #3
      To get some usable voltage, I had to put the gen coil less than 1/8 inch from the wheel. I'm hoping that the coil-shorting technique will produce sufficient voltage that I can back the coil away to increase wheel speed. Is there a preferable placement of the reed switch to get the best results?? (i.e. ahead of the coil/behind the coil, relative to direction of wheel rotation??) Is it preferable to put a small cap across the reed switch to reduce arcing, or will the electrolytics in John's/Peter's advanced SSG generator circuit do that anyway??

      Since I've integrated S pole neos on the top-outside of the wheel rim, in between the N pole ceramics (18 ceramic magnets on the wheel), there is additional attraction to the outer edges of the wide generator core. That may also be affecting the wheel speed.

      I did notice an increase in wheel speed/torque when I moved the SSG coil closer in. This helped keep the wheel from stopping, when the gen coil is under various loads.

      I'll be working on the generator shorting to see if I can get higher voltage/current output. That will determine how quickly I shift to making a separate wheel with a combination of cermaics with neos alternating polarity on the outside of the wheel rim. This is a PMH style, U-shaped core with aluminum spools of #16 wire. Any feedback on this type of generator or use of coil shorting with it??

      Comment


      • #4
        help neded do you have a diagram on this

        Originally posted by jd_zinke@hotmail.com View Post
        A. After some guidance and clarifications from Teslagenx, I wired in a SPDT switch with the 8 transistor board and Charge battery connections. This results in a switchable charging mode. First mode is the normal SSG output configuration on the Charge battery. Selecting the 2nd mode connects the Charge battery in a common ground configuration and adds a diode in that side of the circuit..... as described in the Advanced Book.

        Observations:
        1.) Be sure to take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly, before installing the wiring and SPDT switch.
        2.) My wheel RPM decreased about 100 RPM when switched from SSG to Common Ground charging mode; 270 -> 170.
        3.) Amp meter on Run Battery showed 0.5 increase draw.
        4.) Charge voltage increases about 1 - 2 volts.
        5.) Charge battery charges faster, which is a good trade-off for the small increase in running amperage.

        B. I made the Low-Drag generator coil, following the recommendations in the Advanced book, with two modifications.
        Observations:
        1.) Added about 10 ft to each winding, to add a few more turns on the coil and compensate for wire shortening during the twisting process, for a total length of 140ft.
        2.) Added 2 additional windings for a total of 12.
        3.) Added an additional 1 inch to center core making it 2.5 inches wide. This is for future experiments to attain better performance.
        4.) If you are twisting the coil wire without help, recommend you find a grassy area to layout wire so as not to scuff the thin coating. Then locate center of the wire's length and bend it around a small rod driven in the ground. Twist each half separately. While there may be a 1 -2 inch segment that is not tightly twisted, it can be hand twisted during the winding of the coil,to tighten that small wire length. If the wire is not sufficiently twisted, it will be bigger in diameter, which can affect how much get wrapped on the spool. The twisted wires made a very stiff cable.
        5.) Winding the stiff, twisted wire is like winding solid copper metal. It is fatiguing to the wrists and fingers. It will require several sessions to complete.
        6.) Connecting the individual windings in series is necessary to get the most voltage. requires a volt/continuity meter to locate the bottom end of each winding. Find some good wire connectors that will grip each cleaned wire end. With the help/experience of fellow-contributors Aaron Murakami and James McDonald, serializing the windings were successfully completed.
        7.) Mounting the coil is important. Mount it as close to the wheel as possible to get the highest voltage. Rotate the wheel slowly to find the minimum distance where the highest magnet/wheel bobble will not touch the coil and add 1/16 inch gap.
        8.) Mount it so it does not come loose, when the wheel is turning. I drilled a hole in the rods that extended below the coil and pinned it to an anchored cross member with a woodscrew.
        9.) The output initial thru a bridge rectifier was disappointing; only 7 volts and 55 milliamps. With not enough wheel RPM (130 RPM with generator next to magnets) and lots of drag from the wide coil core, the performance was poor.
        10.) To improve RPM, I reduced the gap on the power coil to about 1/16 inch and loosened the wheel bearings, adding and a film of STP (oil additive) to both bearings.
        11.) Added a stack of 2 small Neo magnets super glued to each side of the rim, in between ceramic. Best voltage attained with South side facing out. They are far enough away from the coil core, facing slightly sideways. No adverse effects on the power coil were seen. While the power coil sees only a North magnetic field, the generator coil sees an alternating North field, then a South field across its wider core.
        12.) Wheel speed without generator coil attached and running in SSG mode was 275 RPM.
        13.) Wheel speed with generator attached is now 175.
        14.) Voltage increased to 11.8 and current increased to 250 milliamps thru bridge rectifier. This accessory has potentially useful power now.......
        15.) No generator testing to date in Common Ground mode.

        Anyone getting better low-drag generator performance?? Any SSG self-running potential being explored with this surplus power??

        I will be further tuning the generator output. Also planning to create a PMH-design generator, to see if the low-Lenzing character will improve the SSG Wheel speed and PMH generator output. See MrAngusWangus channel on You tube, for additional description/characteristics. More on that to come.
        what do you mean take out final assembly instruction connections in step 2-1 on 8 Transistor board assembly on my setup all neons come on something not wright their

        Comment


        • #5
          You will have to omit step 2-1, if you apply the generator modification (generator mode). If you complete the assembly per the instruction book that comes with the Teslagenx 8 board and later on add the wiring, diode and DPST switch, there will be a short on the board. This will melt 2 traces on the 8 trany board. Recommend you send an email to Tom and ask for the diagram that adds the generator mode to their 8 trany board.
          Last edited by jd_zinke@hotmail.com; 10-14-2015, 12:43 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi--just wondered what sort of diode to use for common ground mode. Can you use the 1N4007? I don't remember seeing anything in the book about the specific diode but will check again.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Mike,

              Originally posted by Mike Swanson View Post
              Hi--just wondered what sort of diode to use for common ground mode. Can you use the 1N4007? I don't remember seeing anything in the book about the specific diode but will check again.
              A single 1N4007 will probably blow as the current will exceed it's one amp rating. I use two 1N5408 diodes twisted together in parallel, and they handle the current just fine.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ah great, you saved me a diode!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello, where and how are you using the output of the gen coil??? because Peter and Aaron had it conected to some caps and led light array, in a way that the gen coil only works on the peek of the sine wave so the drag happens only when the magnet is over the coil and not all the time, that way the drag is a lot less.

                  if your gen coil outputs for example 20v and you use it to charge a battery (12v), the gen coil would create drag almost all the time. Now.. if your gen coil outputs 13v and you charge a 12v battery the drag is a lot less.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi all, (I might as well address you directly Gary hahaha).

                    I’m making a list of parts to order for the generator coil / LED circuit. But ran into quite a bit of question marks (as usual). So hope that you can help me:

                    Capacitors:
                    1a) In the handbook it states that the 4 caps (parallel + series) have a combined capacitance of 470uH. My idea was to go with a couple of capacitors in parallel, so I can change/experiment with the capacitance by removing/adding caps in parallel. But my question here is: What should be the min. voltage rating of the capacitor(s)?
                    First I thought they should at least be able to withstand the voltage spikes of the generator coil, but later realized that that is probably not correct, since the capacitors for the cap dump circuit for the secondary battery are specified at +/-80V in the handbook, and spikes coming out of the SG are 300V+ as I understood…
                    So my second thought was that as a bare minimum the voltage of the capacitor(s) should be able to supply the voltage to light up the LEDs in series + the voltage over the resistor. So I planned to go with 4 parallel LED strings, each string containing 10 LEDs in series. The (blue) LEDs I selected have a Vf (forward voltage) of 3.2V. So these LEDs + a 100-Ohms resistor brings it to 40V (minimum). So if I take caps that can handle twice that voltage say +/-80V, that should be good? Or how did you determine which voltage rating the your (combined) caps have?
                    1b) I typed the above up before finding this thread where I’m posting this: So what I understand now from (a.o. post #2) is that the output of the coil is in the 20V range, so if I want to continue to use the LEDs I selected, I might have to reduce the amount of LEDs in series, since as I have it specified in 1a) it will not light up at all when the output is indeed 20V.
                    1c) when you say*:
                    and two capacitors in a voltage doubling arrangement
                    . I assume you mean you put your caps in series? The reason for this being that with the caps you had laying around this yielded the correct amount of voltage rating?


                    Diode(s)
                    2a) The handbook on page 41 shows 1 diode, 6A100. I’m a bit confused when you state*:
                    Also, instead of using a full wave bridge rectifier, I used only two diodes
                    . That gives me the impression that there is a FWBR depicted related to the generator coil LED circuit that I’m aware of. And even if not: how and why would you use two diodes? 1 is sufficient to rectify the voltage to DC, no?
                    2b) now that you bring it up : why not use a FWBR and get a better DC signal (could bring the capacitance down then of the capacitors). Or you prefer not to use a FWBR since it eats up voltage?


                    *post #244
                    http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...?t=399&page=22

                    Many thanks in advance,
                    Best regards,
                    Rodolphe

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Hi Rodolphe,

                      . I assume you mean you put your caps in series? The reason for this being that with the caps you had laying around this yielded the correct amount of voltage rating?
                      I think when I first measured the voltage it was around 23 to 25 volts across the caps the way I have it configured. So I started experimenting by adding LEDs in series with various resistors and checking voltage drop across each LED and the resistor. Then I tried paralleling more and more strings of LEDs with a common single resistor in series with all the paralleled strings. I wound up with 6 parallel strings of 7 LEDs each, all connected to a single 100 ohm resistor. ........... 42 LEDs in total ............ At 300 + RPM they are pretty bright, but get dimmer as the speed decreases. to 200 RPM where they eventually go out.

                      My caps are rated 680 uf and 200 volts. These were just some I had laying around that I got a good buy on.

                      Gary Hammond,

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Hi Gary,

                        Thanks for your answers. This helps a lot!

                        That schematic you mentioned in post #11: very clever! Thanks for uploading the sketch of the schematic.

                        So I started experimenting by adding LEDs in series with various resistors and checking voltage drop across each LED and the resistor.
                        I was planning to do some experimenting as well, starting with a potmeter rather than a fixed resistor.


                        The coil wire
                        In the thread previously mentioned*, post #244, you say that you have 2 generator coils:
                        Coil 1: as described per advanced handbook (10 twisted pieces AWG16 wire, connected in series, total length +/-305m)
                        Coil 2: AWG23, single wound wire, +/-4026 turns.
                        Both yielding more or less the same result.


                        One of the things I was wondering about is why they used AWG16 in the handbook: for the little amperage that goes through the circuit, even AWG26 would suffice… (maybe it was just what they had lying around).
                        My coil will be wound probably Monday (maybe Tuesday). At the moment I specified it at AWG16, +/-305 meter, which brings the nr of windings on the core that I use to +/-1125. If I contact the company Monday morning ,I might still be able to change the wire/turns, but if your tests showed not a significant difference, I’ll just leave it as is.


                        RPM
                        At 300 + RPM they are pretty bright, but get dimmer as the speed decreases. to 200 RPM where they eventually go out.
                        Theoretically speaking (in the sense that also my gen coil circuit goes out below 200rpm too), that would mean that this circuit would only light up on my SG if I operate it in the single pulse area / the second gear area. Although I guess if the generator coil still produced voltage (but lower) at lower RPMs, I could remove some LEDs and have it still light up in the double pulsing area I guess.


                        *http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...?t=399&page=22

                        Best regards,
                        Rodolphe

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Hi Rodolphe,

                          One of the things I was wondering about is why they used AWG16 in the handbook: for the little amperage that goes through the circuit, even AWG26 would suffice… (maybe it was just what they had lying around).
                          I think the idea was to get the least resistance in enough turns to still get a usable amount of voltage. There is a trade off somewhere between number of turns and total coil resistance. It depends on whether you're after more voltage or more current.

                          Another approach is to utilize coil shorting, as in a magneto circuit where the breaker points are closed (shorted out) until the magnets are centered over the coil and then suddenly open up. That is something I want to try, but haven't gotten to yet. (Too many other experiments.)

                          In the thread previously mentioned*, post #244, you say that you have 2 generator coils:
                          Coil 1: as described per advanced handbook (10 twisted pieces AWG16 wire, connected in series, total length +/-305m)
                          Coil 2: AWG23, single wound wire, +/-4026 turns.
                          Both yielding more or less the same result.
                          To clarify a little further, coil #2 was wound first and used as a generator coil on a different SSG. It didn't produce much output using a bridge rectifier. It would only power two or three LEDs and wouldn't produce enough energy to power the switching circuit either. That machine was triggered by a hall switch and ran maybe 250 RPM.

                          When I modified my better SSG to replicate Peter's set up (Gary's "complete advanced" SSG build), I made coil#1 and added it like Peter showed. Then I decided to try mounting coil#2 upside down under the main power coil that runs the SSG. By doing this, I was able to inductively couple it and recover some energy that is normally wasted into the atmosphere without producing any measurable drag or reduction in charging! This coil, operating in this manner, will light the same number of LEDs (42) as coil #1 does. It uses the same voltage doubling arrangement as coil #1 and is totally dependent on the main power coil. (When the main power coil isn't triggering, coil #2 has no output.) It varies in output with speed also, but not as greatly as coil #1 does.

                          I also discovered that I can parallel the DC outputs from both coils to charge a small battery as shown in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8hne9qVCww

                          One other thing to note is that the two coils have different shaped wave forms as shown on the o-scope. The generator coil (coil #1) has the wave form I illustrated in my drawing of the voltage doubling circuit with a sharp positive voltage followed by a sharp negative voltage. And coil #2 has the same form form as the main power coil of an H-wave with a sharp voltage spike at transistor shut off. Neither coil has the normal sine wave form of AC power from the power company. That's another reason I didn't use a full wave bridge rectifier.

                          Gary Hammond,
                          Last edited by Gary Hammond; 04-25-2020, 09:37 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Hi Gary,

                            Thanks for your answers and input.

                            I think the idea was to get the least resistance in enough turns to still get a usable amount of voltage. There is a trade off somewhere between number of turns and total coil resistance. It depends on whether you're after more voltage or more current.
                            I understand, I guess that will make the difference then if the majority of the LEDS are in series or parallel. Among the parts I ordered are some (proto)breadboards and a variable resistor, so will have to experiment a bit to see how to light up most LEDs with my config.


                            Another approach is to utilize coil shorting, as in a magneto circuit where the breaker points are closed (shorted out) until the magnets are centered over the coil and then suddenly open up. That is something I want to try, but haven't gotten to yet.
                            I don’t understand completely what you mean here. If you have a link to where this is explained I would be interested, otherwise don’t bother for now: too much basic stuff that I still need to get done with my SG. But once if that is all set and done will come back on this.


                            I understand what you say about how you used coil #1 and #2. What you did by putting one of those coils under the main coil, using more energy that is otherwise wasted, is very interesting. I assume this energy could also be used as input for another trigger winding of another SG (or make use of it in another way).

                            I also discovered that I can parallel the DC outputs from both coils to charge a small battery
                            Then I assume you could have also hooked up more LEDs in parallel instead of charging the battery in parallel? Or is that not true/incorrect?


                            Best regards,
                            Rodolphe


                            P.S. In the meantime I’m working on my comparator circuit. Frame parts is done, now need to solder all the (small) components).
                            building comparator.png

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