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Idea for a large multifilar SS SG

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jamesgray3rd View Post
    Also, Have you experimented with, or has anyone else out there experimented with optimal wire length for multi-filar coils, specifically for 18 AWG? And, the same question in regard to 23 AWG and 26 AWG ( the other wire sizes I have)...with as big of a project as this, I would tend to lean towards a consensus of opinion backed by experiments, rather than waste a lot of wire...if you know what I mean...I see John use 130 foot lengths, quite a lot, for his 20 AWG wire. I do not remember hearing him say anything about 18 AWG lengths, though the 10-coiler seemed to have 8 strands of 18 AWG, with 4 transistors per coil (double strands per circuit to lower impedance for his big batteries) if I remember correctly...Anyway, I think that is more important than most would think. I believe John chose his wire length based on his years of phenomenology (as Tom Bearden put it). Anyway, knowing optimal wire lengths would help me "just build it."

    Anyway, Thank you again Nityesh...you are awesome!
    Here is a suggestion(but I am not sure if I am correct on this)

    Here is something that might help you choose the wire length, with the "adams motor" Robert Adams specified 10ohm coils. He didn't say anything about the wire gauge. For my adams motor I used thicker wire and it was a very long coil to get 10ohms. You can estimate the length of a coil by measuring the resistance and dividing it by the ohms per meter/foot.

    Ok according to http://www.cirris.com/learning-cente...lculator-table.

    Wire Gauge 20 is 0.01015 ohms per foot so 130 feet is 0.01015 ohms per feet x 130 feet = 1.3195 ohms

    Wire Gauge 18 wire is 0.00639 ohms per foot. So to match the same resistance 1.3195 ohms / 0.00639 ohms per feet = 206.5 feet

    so 130 feet of Gauge 20 wire is the same resistance as 206.5 feet of Gauge 18 wire.

    For my 81 strand solid state the wire is Gauge 23 and the resistance per foot is 0.02036ohms and it measures 3ohms per strand. So the estimate length is 3 ohms / 0.02036 ohms per feet = 147.35 feet

    After reading thousands of posts form the monopole groups, I picked up that is makes no difference if you twist the wires or not, with regard to the performance of the coil, twisting the wires only makes it neat and tidy. The down side of twisting the wires is that you lose some of the length of your multi-strand wire/cable which means less turns.

    When I wrapped many rolls of insulation tape around the 81 strand cable, I realized that a cable this thick may not need twisting together, just tightly wrap insulation tape around the multi-strand cable. Then you will get a couple more turns around the spool.

    I hope this helps

    kind regards
    Nityesh
    Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 12-08-2014, 12:17 AM.

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    • #17
      Thank you Nityesh

      They seem to have a more modern twist of "the old man on the mountain" style of gradually working one's way toward "master" level consciousness (which usually take a lifetime to develop). Nothing wrong with that, its how things have been done for millennium. The problem with the "modern twist" version, though, is the lack of a gatekeeper...you know...like Jedi in the Star Wars movies (the Jedi look a lot like the D'Jedi priests from the Pre-Egyptian, Egypt period). Without gatekeepers, bad people can end up mastering consciousness tools and impose them on innocent people. I already have access to some next-level consciousness tools...it was just a nice thought to be able to enhance them while charging batteries...and feeling good...so-to-speak...

      James
      Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

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      • #18
        OK...back on topic

        I did some research from various genre including double blind studies, esoteric phenomenology and radio science (amateur radio)...and found some interesting phenomena in regard electromagnetic resonant frequencies in the ULF range. Without going into detail, I found good reason backing up my intuition in regard to attempting to resonate the coil, I intend to build for this replication, between 7-8 Hz, and if I can get it exact, 7.83 Hz...It could prove to be beneficial to plants and animals, as well as humans, and should help my life in many other ways. That being said, there are beneficial frequencies as well as harmful frequencies disbursed all along the ULF spectrum of 1-300 Hz. The ones that are resonant to the Schumann resonant frequency of 7.83 (also the boundary between Alpha and Theta brain waves) are 14, 21, 26, 32, 39, and 45 Hz respectively I ran some wire length calculations in regard to "antenna lengths" (basically an inductors) that should easily oscillate naturally with these frequencies--thereby indicating optimal lengths of wire for desired frequency...in other words, they should pick up the earth's resonant frequency as part of the factor that determines their oscillations. so here we go...I did some math for the above referenced frequencies and below, you will find theoretical optimal wire lengths for coils, if one wanted them to resonate at one of the Schumann frequency harmonics...I may totally be off base, but as a person with Ham radio experience, the length of the wire is what mostly determines how it oscillates and what frequencies can excite it...so since most lower frequency antennas have coils, wire length should apply here as well...So, following are some theoretical wire lengths for Schumann resonant harmonics:

        45 Hz @ 2^18th = 166.9 feet

        39 Hz @ 2^18th = 192.5 feet

        39 Hz @ 2^19th = 96.3 feet

        32 Hz @ 2^19th = 177.3 feet

        26 Hz @ 2^19th = 144.4 feet

        21 Hz @ 2^19th = 178.8 feet

        14 Hz @ 2^20th = 134.1 feet

        7.83 Hz @ 2^21st wavelength = 119.879176 feet of wire

        Hypothesis: If I want the best chance for the replication coil to resonate at 7.83 Hz, I should have the wire strand lengths as close to 119.879176 feet long as humanly possible--specifically 119 feet, 10, and 13/16 inches in length after trimming.

        Therefore an 81 strand coil with 18 AWG wire in lengths of 119 feet, 10 and 13/16 inches (119 and 9/10 of a foot) should weigh in at 46.63 lbs...wow, what a moose! That is more than double the original Omnibus Coil weight, and no doubt, dimensions!

        Now...there is a good chance that I am just full of it, and this hypotheses is pure bravo sierra, but my intuition seldom leads me wrong, and since there are some studies that inform my hypotheses, I will go with my gut and build it this way.
        Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 12-08-2014, 04:29 AM.
        Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

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        • #19
          Thank you Nityesh.

          That calculator should be a useful tool. I suppose I am building this from a differing viewpoint. I am interested in the coil's natural resonance, and many other folks zero in on ohms resistance per length of wire, and wraps of windings, etc.

          I figure I can address the overall resistance, after winding the coil, by adding resistors on the end. 18 AWG has reasonably low impedance as it is, so it should be fairly easy using that calculator to determine native resistance and calculating what I need to add on. That works for me...what do you think?

          Thank you, James
          Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

          Comment


          • #20
            Hi everybody

            Here is a simple chart to help with determining length and resistance of wire for coils, etc....enjoy.



            James
            Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by jamesgray3rd View Post

              45 Hz @ 2^18th = 166.9 feet

              39 Hz @ 2^18th = 192.5 feet

              39 Hz @ 2^19th = 96.3 feet

              32 Hz @ 2^19th = 177.3 feet

              26 Hz @ 2^19th = 144.4 feet

              21 Hz @ 2^19th = 178.8 feet

              14 Hz @ 2^20th = 134.1 feet

              7.83 Hz @ 2^21st wavelength = 119.879176 feet of wire
              Wow you are very amazing, thank you for your most valued research, I think and feel that you are absolutely correct. Thankyou

              Here is another thing silver coated copper, like electroplating silver on copper is used for high frequency stuff, so that copper disk connecting 80 diodes could be silver plated. I think a copper disk connecting 80 diodes is better.

              Or maybe you can use half of a brass symbol like in a drumming set. The shape of the brass symbol makes a place for a solder pool in the center to connect a big fat wire. Best not to use nuts and bolts for connecting fat wires, solder everything with silver solder.

              Your replication will be very amazing, and you can use your extra sensory perception to observe it.

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              • #22
                Here is a schematic of the solid state oscillator in generator mode.

                osc-gen.jpg

                R2 is tuned to to find the right resistance then replaced with a fixed resistor.

                Just a note: you might want to connect a 2K resistor in series with R2, to protect R2 from getting burnt out during adjustment and to protect the base emitter junction of your transistor from over current. maybe I can update this schematic sometime.
                Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 12-08-2014, 07:21 AM.

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                • #23
                  Greetings:

                  Coil wire length & gauge: I think that wire gauge is about current capacity and length/number of strands has a bit to do with matching (attempting to, anyway) the resistance of the source battery(s).

                  I was using two banks of 200AH LABs as source power for a large SG and ended up with 117 strands of #23 gauge wire @ a bit over 300 feet in length, trying to get the parallel resistance of the wires near the resistance of the source batteries.

                  The coil is wound directly over welding rods which are wrapped with 'glass tape', then vinyl. The transistors are MJL21194s.

                  The wheel was made from a 5' diameter table top and 6 x 2 x 1 inch magnets were flush mounted into it.

                  I tripped and fell into the circuit board one day and smoked several of the transistors, so only 55 transistors are in service. Each has 2 wires attached. (That's why I'm thinking about rewinding the thing and going to a full complement of transistors.)

                  For solid state triggering, I've used Bob French's LM339 circuit shown here: http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/bo...ml?sort=3&o=22

                  This circuit allows for control of the pulse width and duty cycle. I control current with duty cycle.
                  Multiple caps can be used by placing a switch in the circuit where the .1uF cap is seen.

                  I also use JB's SG3524 circuit from one of his patents to pulse the SG. Replace the cap @ pin 7, I think that's where it is, with a switch and multiple caps to increase frequency range.

                  The coil assembly weighs around 85 pounds.

                  All this talk about large SGs makes me want to get the thing back into service. Lately, I've been charging batteries with Bob's circuit.

                  glen

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                  • #24
                    80 Strand Template

                    Here is a template I made to mark the position of the components. It is a circle that has 80 segments at 4.5 degrees apart.

                    360_degrees \ 80 = 4.5_degrees Ever tried to divide a circle into 80 segments with a pencil protractor and compass.

                    I used a geometry program called "cinderella" http://www.cinderella.de/tiki-index.php It is free and fully functional. I have used this program to mark the spacing of magnets of all my motor disks I made including the "Mullar Dynamo".

                    Here is a template I created to help others space 80 components equally around the star connections.

                    80 strand template.pdf

                    The 81 strand oscillator has 3 star connections, one for the 2K resistors which divide the trigger signal from the trigger strand (strand 81) and feed 80 bases of 80 transistors. The second star connection for the output diodes at the back end, I would use a silver plated copper disk for this. And the third star connection to connect 80 emitters of 80 transistors, to connect the emitters to the negative of the powering battery/source. I used brass welding rods(But better to use very thick copper wire) , and soldered a brass flywheel from an old reel to reel tape recorder in the center, Better to use copper, because it is a lower resistance than brass.

                    The green wires coming from the 2K 80 Resistor star connection on the CD case, are stretched/straightened awg 18 enamel coated copper wire all cut to the same length.

                    http://www.energyscienceforum.com/album.php?albumid=80

                    I hope that your replications can supersede mine and fast forward this technology into the future and end this oil age for everyone

                    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few


                    Kind Regards
                    Nityesh Schnaderbeck
                    Last edited by Nityesh Schnaderbeck; 12-08-2014, 10:11 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thank you very much Nityesh.

                      All of your input will prove most helpful.

                      There is a business near me called "Bitterroot Bolt." They have just about anything you can imagine in regard to bolts, washers, nuts, screws, chains, etc... I will be stopping by there to see what they have for copper washers and copper rod. I am watching some copper rod auctions on ebay as well. I intuitively figured I would stay "copper" all the way, with silver solder, which goes well with copper. It looks like we are thinking along the same lines here. I might stay with a hefty 10 turn pot to tune it until I am certain I can keep it stable, then measure the resistance and hard-wire accordingly. I will most likely build all of the hardware (base, spools, mounts, etc) from fairly thick acrylic, as that is reasonably easy and will make a visual impact, as well as keep everything accessible. My son and I discussed how we plan to pull the strands and litze them (I think coils look better that way, and I think John has some good reasons for it, other than what he has shared), and we hope to be doing that this week. I checked my wire bucket again. It says "net weight 91 lbs" but it is only 2/3-3/4 full--still quite enough for the build. The 18 AWG will be just over .8 Ohms per strand. I need to keep in mind that the target battery bank is 3 of my 6-12 volt 1000ah batteries (about 1000 lbs each) so they should be quite low impedance. That should make it easier calculating resistance. I plan to stick with the 119 foot 10 and 13/16 strands. And, If I can not get it to self oscillate at 7.83 Hz, I will use one of my opto-isolated DMX512 PWM dimmer controllers and run QLC+ on Ubuntu 12.04 to change the PWM. I will try it with a 12-16 strand coil first ( I have need of something that size anyway). Your chart and that website will be most helpful. I hope my theory about wire length and operating frequency proves out to be correct, as that should help future builders. I really appreciate you taking an interest in helping me with your input. Your experience is priceless...thank you.

                      James
                      Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 12-08-2014, 03:46 PM.
                      Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi GlennWV

                        You are right in how most people are winding the coils, and I am not saying that one should not pursue that method, as it can potentially make things easier in regard to matching coils and circuits to battery impedance. However, for individuals seeking certain frequencies in oscillation, it makes more sense to build the coil according to math that informs them of those parameters, do you not agree? And then, use wire with low impedance and work your way up in resistance, for your output...do you follow my thinking? I am in no way saying that I am totally correct in this matter, but my intuition says, and that is backed up by my research inferred in my above post, that I am on to something...that is, I hope that I am. So, I will aim towards my preferred frequency, using the coil strand lengths as sort of a loaded antenna for that frequency, then adjust for appropriate resistance...doing a little (or a lot of) tweaking here and there, and if it comes out like my intuition suggests, we should have an awesome example of Nityesh's Omnibus self-oscillating SS SG for others to springboard from. I hope that you think about this as you bring out your big project and determine how you want to procede...maybe there is credence in what I have been musing about, and you might want to experiment with different frequencies as well...food for thought...

                        Best regards, James
                        Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          OK...another thought crossed my mind

                          Remember how experimenters are describing better running machines when they ground the circuit to earth? Would it not be safe to assume that, if my presumptions are correct that the Omnibus replica might oscillate at the Schumann resonance (or one of is harmonic frequencies) if I wound the coil at a length 2^21st shorter wavelength of 7.83 Hz (the waveform is over 10,000 mile long), that grounding the circuit to earth, might help it into resonance at 7.83 Hz (or harmonic)? Us amateur radio guys understand that building loaded coil type antennas at fractions of a particular wavelength, if tuned correctly, can perform as good, or almost as good as the full wavelength (example, an 80 meter antenna can be 1/8 or 1/16 of the wavelength and have a loaded base [coil] and perform just dandy). Are not these coils, much like an antenna, in this case? Just thinking out load...I shall try it earth grounded, and un-grounded and make notes of the effects after it is built and tuned...

                          James
                          Last edited by James_Somewhere_In_Idaho; 12-08-2014, 06:46 PM.
                          Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Cool...

                            I found a chart that informs my hypothesis (from a site where they were trying to build Schumann resonant frequency generators). I think my method of calculation is better because I went out 3 decimals, and they rounded down at the first decimal. When I calculated the wavelength (and therefore inductor strand length) for the Schumann resonant frequency (7.83 Hz) @ the 21st harmonic, it ended up being 36.546 meters, or 119 feet 10-13/16 inches (119.9 feet), which is somewhere close to the 8000 Khz range. The attached chart shows their version being truncated to the first decimal--36.5 meters, or 119 feet 9 13/16 inches. They lost an inch in their rounding error, and I feel that 1 inch difference might put it out of tolerance when tuning for the 1st harmonic from the 21st harmonic., or at least make it a little harder to tune, since it would most likely need to be right on due to the faintness of the Schumann resonance frequency.
                            Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Well, I had my son help me weight that big bucket of 18 AWG Essex magnet wire.

                              After adjustments for the weight of the bucket and lid, it cam out to 83.3 lbs. That works out to approximately 17,351.39 feet of wire, or 144.716 strands 119.9 feet long.

                              So, I could build an 81-filar Omnibus coil replica, plus have a lot of wire left over for more projects, or I could build 2-72-filar semi-replicas, and have 2 bad-boys...hmmm, what-to-do, what-to-do??? (sorry, it just feels good to have "First world problems" [Weird Al])

                              I think I will stay with the 81-filar. Besides, John B's 10 coiler, that charged his big battery banks, had 80 circuits, if I remember--10 coils, each with 8 strands of 18 AWG (130 feet?), 2 strands per transistor...I may be wrong here...anyway, the 80 circuits should be plenty of mojo for 2 banks of 3000 ah each

                              James
                              Best Regards ~ James, Somewhere In Idaho

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                the 10 coil is 4 strands of 18 awg 100 FT 1 tranny per wire... 40 circuits.

                                Tom C


                                experimental Kits, chargers and solar trackers

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